After mt eyes decide they no longer liked H.O. trains.I decide I would get one lionel train.I always wanted one as a kid.But my folks just did not have the money for that.Any way I order a lionel 736 steam locomotive.In the same magzine was a ad for a company called MTH trains.There was an erie berkshire.So I order it and man.What a puller and smoked pretty good to.So for the next few years I would get another locomotive after christmas.Then noticed that the price of post war trains was going down.I recall seeing lionel locomotives priced at $300.00 to $800.00.I think MTH trains sets took it up a notch.I do not have there tracks systen I have gargraves track.I had lionel track and well it cut me.I had a very shore finger for a few weeks.Any way I think pretty much had the market all to it self.I know there were other companies.But they were nowhere as big as lionel.And did not pose a threat in the o gauge market.I think MTH really shook things up in the o gauge train market.So what are your thoughts on this?

Original Post

In the mid-1990s I started buying MTH Railking locomotives. My recollection is that they were about two-thirds the price of modern Lionel locomotives then, and their quality was comparable to Lionel, so I felt I was getting a good deal. 

Did MTH shake things up by doing the above? That may be an overstatement, but I believe MTH did significantly impact the market for O Gauge trains by doing the above.

I also believe modern Lionel and MTH trains have caused Postwar Lionel trains to become more affordable. 

Have Postwar trains kept modern Lionel and MTH trains to be more affordable? I'm not sure if that is true, but I believe it's possible that the Postwar trains have helped keep the prices of modern Lionel and MTH from going through the roof. Arnold

In my little world, I leave this troubled world behind.

For me, it was the Williams brass USRA series that changed the market.  The USRA Mikado was a model of a prototype l could relate to, and diverted me from old trains to "scaleplate" models.  MTH did make some new prototypes, but l thought made too many redos, as did Lionel.  New and different rings my chines.

??Another one of THOSE!!??  What you want to sell is not what I want to buy!

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

In the mid-1990s I started buying MTH Railking locomotives. My recollection is that they were about two-thirds the price of modern Lionel locomotives then, and their quality was comparable to Lionel, so I felt I was getting a good deal. 

Did MTH shake things up by doing the above? That may be an overstatement, but I believe MTH did significantly impact the market for O Gauge trains by doing the above.

I also believe modern Lionel and MTH trains have caused Postwar Lionel trains to become more affordable. 

Have Postwar trains kept modern Lionel and MTH trains to be more affordable? I'm not sure if that is true, but I believe it's possible that the Postwar trains have helped keep the prices of modern Lionel and MTH from going through the roof. Arnold

O.k. lets that a look at mth train sets.You got a locomotive that could have been a rs11 or a 2-8-0.With track that had its own road bed.Meaning you could set up any where.A the sets had good sounds.Mike once said."Train sets are our way to get more people to come back for more.

colorado hirailer posted:

For me, it was the Williams brass USRA series that changed the market.  The USRA Mikado was a model of a prototype l could relate to, and diverted me from old trains to "scaleplate" models.  MTH did make some new prototypes, but l thought made too many redos, as did Lionel.  New and different rings my chines.

I have heard things about williams train.I have a conrail wc dash 8 and a few boxcars.I do not have any steam locomotives from williams.There is one williams by bachmann and that is the 4-6-2 locomotive.Have one of the coolest whistle.

colorado hirailer posted:

For me, it was the Williams brass USRA series that changed the market.  The USRA Mikado was a model of a prototype l could relate to, and diverted me from old trains to "scaleplate" models.  MTH did make some new prototypes, but l thought made too many redos, as did Lionel.  New and different rings my chines.

It was Jerry Williams that got Mike Wolf started in O gauge trains.

member:Golden Spike Club Charter Member

Competition breeds innovation.  Just look at cell phones, cellular service, computers, cars, TVs, etc.

Kline, Williams, Atlas, Weaver, 3rd rail, MTH,  and others have all impacted the industry. Better detail, graphics, variety, and hopefully quality.  Without the re-issues of pre and postwar stuff we would still be stuck in the escalating prices of postwar trains.

It's nice to have more options for sure.

aussteve posted:

Competition breeds innovation.  Just look at cell phones, cellular service, computers, cars, TVs, etc.

Kline, Williams, Atlas, Weaver, 3rd rail, MTH,  and others have all impacted the industry. Better detail, graphics, variety, and hopefully quality.  Without the re-issues of pre and postwar stuff we would still be stuck in the escalating prices of postwar trains.

It's nice to have more options for sure.

Well I still MTH did a lot of first.The first diecast 4-6-6-4 steam locomotive with both sets of drivers powered.I will always remember that seeing that locomotive in railking.And its sounds system blew me away.

prrhorseshoecurve posted:
colorado hirailer posted:

For me, it was the Williams brass USRA series that changed the market.  The USRA Mikado was a model of a prototype l could relate to, and diverted me from old trains to "scaleplate" models.  MTH did make some new prototypes, but l thought made too many redos, as did Lionel.  New and different rings my chines.

It was Jerry Williams that got Mike Wolf started in O gauge trains.

True he brought the stuff to make tinplate trains.

MTH was the first to start offering frequent variety of prototypes we all wanted.  Full credit to Jerry Williams for his contributions to the hobby, and introducing Mike Wolf to the business.   Also credit to Richard Kughn at Lionel for sparking interest in modern rolling stock and locomotives.  Mike Wolf took things to a level that in many ways went beyond everyone else.  MTH managed to make O Gauge trains mainstream.  Easily available catalogs and a dealer network.  No longer did we have to hope falsely for trains we wanted to show up in a sparse annual catalog.  Instead, a steady stream of trains we all were waiting for became standard MTH.  I loved the ads in MTHs early years, one featured a C&O Steam locomotive and an O scale man looking at his watch, the caption said something like "you have waited 48 years for this locomotive, " implying MTH will now be making trains we were all waiting for would be finally made.  They have had a few stumbles, and my Turbotrain experiences with MTH are still sore wounds. But 99% of my MTH is flawless and I am glad to have it.  MTH, certainly the most influential part of this true golden age of O Gauge. 

VistaDomeScott posted:

MTH was the first to start offering frequent variety of prototypes we all wanted.  Full credit to Jerry Williams for his contributions to the hobby, and introducing Mike Wolf to the business.   Also credit to Richard Kughn at Lionel for sparking interest in modern rolling stock and locomotives.  Mike Wolf took things to a level that in many ways went beyond everyone else.  MTH managed to make O Gauge trains mainstream.  Easily available catalogs and a dealer network.  No longer did we have to hope falsely for trains we wanted to show up in a sparse annual catalog.  Instead, a steady stream of trains we all were waiting for became standard MTH.  I loved the ads in MTHs early years, one featured a C&O Steam locomotive and an O scale man looking at his watch, the caption said something like "you have waited 48 years for this locomotive, " implying MTH will now be making trains we were all waiting for would be finally made.  They have had a few stumbles, and my Turbotrain experiences with MTH are still sore wounds. But 99% of my MTH is flawless and I am glad to have it.  MTH, certainly the most influential part of this true golden age of O Gauge. 

Yep!MTH meant to me you longer had to pay $600.00 for a mid size locomotive.My first locomotive was an erie berkshire.I have had it pull 25 to 41boxcars.And smoke really good and makes me think of watching an old movie from the 1940s.All in all I am happy with what I have.

aussteve posted:

Competition breeds innovation.  Just look at cell phones, cellular service, computers, cars, TVs, etc.

Kline, Williams, Atlas, Weaver, 3rd rail, MTH,  and others have all impacted the industry. Better detail, graphics, variety, and hopefully quality.  Without the re-issues of pre and postwar stuff we would still be stuck in the escalating prices of postwar trains.

It's nice to have more options for sure.

I totally agree with this. In addition, it brings to mind the old expression "It keeps the competition honest;" because it seemed to me that once MTH entered the marketplace - as they did on a big scale - over and above new innovations Lionel's attention to detail/quality even on smaller issues improved (eg. plastic couplers changing to more die-cast ones that don't pop open as frequently, more die-cast prototypical 'sprung' trucks etc.)

I wasn't really in the hobby when MTH was establishing themselves, but I always assumed that Lionel, under Richard K, was primarily producing reissues for the collector market and charging a premium. MTH was pushing technology and detail that Lionel was slower to adopt in their products.

I still have my first two MTH Locomotives the first "J" and the first "Hudson" they introduced around 1990 or so and they still run. As far as product support my Hudson took a dive off the layout and bent the cab roof pretty bad several years after I bought and my service center (no longer in business) took down to MTH and they repaired/replaced (not sure which) for no charge. I would challenge you to find the damage today. MTH made a big impact in several areas and still does today. All of my 50+ MTH locomotives were still operating when packed up for the move two years ago and after replacing all of the batteries I bet the will operate again. The only disappoint I have with MTH is my P5 and the Zinc Rot issue. MTH may still make that right TBD.

Rick

PRRT&HS #8473

N&W HS  #5825

State College, PA

"And the sons of Pullman Porters, and the sons of Engineers

   Ride their father's magic carpet made of steel"

    "This train got the disappearing railroad blues"

 

RJT posted:

I still have my first two MTH Locomotives the first "J" and the first "Hudson" they introduced around 1990 or so and they still run. As far as product support my Hudson took a dive off the layout and bent the cab roof pretty bad several years after I bought and my service center (no longer in business) took down to MTH and they repaired/replaced (not sure which) for no charge. I would challenge you to find the damage today. MTH made a big impact in several areas and still does today. All of my 50+ MTH locomotives were still operating when packed up for the move two years ago and after replacing all of the batteries I bet the will operate again. The only disappoint I have with MTH is my P5 and the Zinc Rot issue. MTH may still make that right TBD.

I got a railking j that has american flyer type smoke unit.Its a great puller that runs very good.The only thing I am very happy with my MTH trains.

I got back into the hobby in 1997 and began buying MTH Premier scale-sized locomotive models, which are the predominant brand that I have continued to buy during the intervening years. If I remember correctly, back when I started, MTH was producing a wide variety of new scale-sized models and Lionel was not. A few years later, Lionel began to catch up. I would say that Mike Wolf has been a wise business man and a visionary who has revitalized and innovated in the O gauge train market. The success of his company speaks for itself and, I think, the hobby has benefited from the presence of MTH as a major producer. Over the years, I have always been satisfied with the MTH trains that I have purchased.

MELGAR

MTH and others flooded the market with new product. This drove down prices of older Lionel - especially. MPC - over time. But it also made entry into the hobby more affordable.

MTH also pushed Lionel to innovate with new features, especially electronics. However, this came at a cost as prices increased on newer stuff.

MTH forced the move of production to China. That was a two-edged sword as we all now realize. 

All in all, MTH has been a very positive influence, but not without some fallout along the way. Consumers  certainly have a lot more product choices than ever before; whether that is sustainable over the long haul is a real question.

 

"MTH was pushing technology and detail that Lionel was slower to adopt in their products."

One's perspective depends on when one re-entered or entered the hobby.  MTH's major contribution was making more scale-like locomotives and rolling stock, particularly well decorated and relatively lower cost.  Lionel had done a bit of this, but nothing like what Williams, Weaver and Right of Way did with large complex steam locos in the 1980s and early 1990s.

MTH advanced that much further and added a lot more variety.  In the early 1990s Dick Kughn and Neil Young at Lionel were creating the first command control and high quality sound systems with TMCC and Railsounds. These were and remained far ahead of what MTH had to offer until about 2002, when DCS, was introduced to accompany PS2 (2000) which was an equivalent system in many ways.  Many found DCS to be more feature rich, but the sound quality of PS2 was generally not quite up to the sound quality of the equivalent generation of Railsounds.   DCS has many more functions but also was substantially more difficult to implement in some settings, as generalizations.  So I don't think most would agree that MTH has been the leader in terms of technology during the last 25 years, but they clearly have been the value leader and variety leader. 

During the early 1990s to about 2000, MTH used a lower end QSI sound and control system (PS1) that many thought was decidedly inferior to Railsounds in a number of respects.  It didn't provide command capability for one thing,  which had been present in Lionel products (and then K-Line, Atlas, Weaver and 3rd Rail) for about 6 years at that point (2002). 

But there is no denying that the variety of road names and prototypes that MTH introduced, particularly in large steam locos, was unprecedented, and great value for money, but Williams, Weaver and Right of Way also deserve some credit for this innovation.  MTH took this to an entirely higher level in variety of prototypes/road names,  and capabilities.

Competition from MTH certainly was absolutely the key factor encouraging Lionel to control their prices and do more variety and further technical innovation (Legacy, LionChief, etc.). It also led to the move of production to Asia and closing the USA factory Lionel had maintained for a century.

MTH also led the industry in lawsuits, for those who missed the 1990s and early 2000s.   That led to a fair amount of ill will in the hobby and industry, but finally settled down in the later 2000s. 

Thus it's a complex story, with MTH having played a large role in innovation and value proposition.  Perhaps not as large a role as MTH's most enthusiastic fans claim,  and not as minor a role as MTH's most enthusiastic detractors claim .

Mike Wolf and Jerry Williams saved - and created - the modern 3RO hobby. They both leveraged the Lionel image (if not the name) far better than Lionel did for a long time. Maybe ever. Without their "extension" of 3RO into scale and scale-like product, even Richard Kughn could not have saved Lionel - there was really nothing to save, had it remained what it was.

Let's not forget Maury Klein, and a host of others (R-O-W's founder comes to mind).

Lionel, though - they got the command control right. Not sure now that it's as "right" as it once was.

We have family garage sales now and then.  I have never had a person come up to me and ask "Do you have any MTH trains" but every single time someone comes over and asks "Do you have any Lionel trains."

Not sure that means anything, just saying..

USMC 1966-69

This is very easy to answer. Just looking back at Lionel's catalogs from the 1990's you can start to see a change from what they were making. I can remember some time back in the early 90's, my then LHS was close by and Jack was the proprietor. Jack was a very nice fellow and he would tell me what was coming out in Lionel(since that was what I was buying). Well, he happen to have some of the Newest MTH scale stuff in and was telling me about it. Well, at the time money was tight for me and I didn't want to overextend myself but you could definitely tell that the hobby was changing for the better.

The scale Class J's when they first came out looked like Big Boys to Lionel's engines. I can remember checking out another store(which is my current LTS) and the MTH scale engines dominated the shelves. I did inquire as to what the makes were in my field of vision and almost everything was MTH. I really don't remember too much of what was on the shelves that was Lionel, but understand that the ideas were beginning to take place in what the next big thing was.

For my part, I did pick up a Railking Daylight, the passenger cars to go with it, some UP Coal Hoppers and the N&W passenger cars that would have gone behind the Class J. Unfortunately I didn't get it, but that's okay. Needless to say the whole market changed for the better.

I will agree with others that state that Williams in and Weaver really started the change in the O gauge market.  Nothing against MTH products as I have many.  However the shift to scale trains on 3 rails really started sooner than MTH.

Granted Mr. Wolf was involved at some level with the introduction of budget priced brass steam locomotives at both Willams and Weaver. 

 

Jonathan

 

I resumed my interest in electric trains in 1987. I had had American Flyer as a young boy but in 1987 Lionel was the only show in town. Until Jerry Williams sold his tinplate business to a young friend and neighbor named Mike Wolf. His formation of MTH subsequently changed the hobby in the most profound way since Joshua Lionel Cowan at the turn of the last century. Initially working with Richard Kughn when he purchased Lionel the two came up with beautiful new steam engines from a manufacturer in South Korea that we all came to know and respect as Samhongsa. When the relationship deteriorated in the early nineties Mike was faced with a dilemma. How do I keep Samhongsa busy. The answer came in 1994 at York when Mike rolled out his first O gauge locomotive, the Dash 8. From 1994 to the early 2000's Mike produced three Railking and three Premier catalogs a year with a dizzying assortment of new tooling with engines and cars and accessories that heretofore we could only dream of. The Turbine series, the die cast Challengers, the big boys, and my favorite engine, the Erie Triplex. When Bill Benson made his brass steamers with Pittman motors from America, Mike Wolf followed suit. When Lionel came out with TMCC, Mike answered with DCS. One could argue that Lionel has had better sound in their steamers compared to MTH, but no one would argue who has the best smoke units. And, the current diesel sounds from MTH are second to none. As the demographics of our hobby changes, each company has had to make concessions eg. infrequent new tooling and reliance on fantasy schemes and well known entertainment brands. But, through it all Mike Wolf has remained at the helm with great help from his two supporting generals, Rich Foster and Andy Edelman. To my mind Mike Wolf is second only to Joshua Cowan regarding contributions to our beloved hobby.

It absolutely got me into O gauge. My father in law worked for Electro Motive after the war and took me to the La Grange plant for I believe their 75th anniversary in the mid 90's. While there they had a O Gauge layout setup and I was very impressed with the detail of these locomotives. I asked and they told MTH, never heard of them. Like the original post I too was a HO guy until the eyes started fading but didn't think much of Lionel due to the non scale size. I was instantly hooked on O gauge. Went to my local hobby shop and started buying MTH, until the fall of 1999 and wham, out of nowhere Lionel comes out with the Allegheny, then by Christmas the Big Boy. Wow! Scale stuff with command control from Lionel!  So, to sum it up if MTH was not around I don't believe Lionel would have introduced those models, which we all now enjoy.

 

 

 

Jonathan 

 Good point on Weaver.  Certainly a big part of the O gauge market for a period of years.  MTH was able to expand with increasingly realistic sound, details, and product lines.  Kind of left Weaver and Williams behind in these ways.  I must say I am a huge fan of Williams and own many of their passenger locomotives.  I vouch for their reliability and affordability.  Same with Weaver.  

  In the 1990s I lived in an apartment very near the Norfolk Southern's ex NKP line.  In those years the CSX had an intermodal train coming from the NYSW operating thru on NS with NYSW power, trains 290 & 291.  There was also an intermodal train from the CP with Soo Line, CP, and Milwaukee Road bandit power, trains 083, and 084.  My O Scale train buys were mainly aimed at recreating the real NS operations I enjoyed nearby.  Lionels first Dash8 in NS and NYSW Dash8 were some of my first O scale buys.  Then, MTH offered the SD60M in Soo Line, and a C30-7 in NS.  They were scale and had real sounds instead of awful buzzer horns.  The MTH C30-7 had a very accurate sort of hoarse sounding horn just like the ones rolling by up the street from my O scale carpet central.  Weaver provided me with a nice Soo Line SD40-2 but it had an awful electronic horn.  And so MTH began being my main source for trains.  Those early MTH locos had a lot of mileage. I must say, that Soo Line SD60M eventually suffered P1 death, as did the C30-7.  (I still operate many P1 locomotives that somehow avoided the known problems of that era).  I was for a while hesitant on MTH locos, but with P3 my MTH roster has swelled and all (exception being the Turbotrains) are excellent trains.  MTH is about 50% of my collection with Atlas, Williams,  Lionel, Weaver,  K-line, GGD, making up the rest. I recently finally replaced the SD60M with an even more accurate Lionel Legacy version with correct windows.   Competition brought about increasingly better trains.  But I firmly believe that MTH raised the bar, and brought life to O Gauge, and competition which forced more detail, features.  

 

MELGAR posted:

I got back into the hobby in 1997 and began buying MTH Premier scale-sized locomotive models, which are the predominant brand that I have continued to buy during the intervening years. If I remember correctly, back when I started, MTH was producing a wide variety of new scale-sized models and Lionel was not. A few years later, Lionel began to catch up. I would say that Mike Wolf has been a wise business man and a visionary who has revitalized and innovated in the O gauge train market. The success of his company speaks for itself and, I think, the hobby has benefited from the presence of MTH as a major producer. Over the years, I have always been satisfied with the MTH trains that I have purchased.

MELGAR

I have always liked the pulling power of the locomotives.I have had my first few railking locomotives pull 42 boxcars.And I have had railking ps2 mountain type steam locomotives pull some long trains as well.Here is a few videos of my locomotives pulling a long train.

RJT posted:

I still have my first two MTH Locomotives the first "J" and the first "Hudson" they introduced around 1990 or so and they still run. As far as product support my Hudson took a dive off the layout and bent the cab roof pretty bad several years after I bought and my service center (no longer in business) took down to MTH and they repaired/replaced (not sure which) for no charge. I would challenge you to find the damage today. MTH made a big impact in several areas and still does today. All of my 50+ MTH locomotives were still operating when packed up for the move two years ago and after replacing all of the batteries I bet the will operate again. The only disappoint I have with MTH is my P5 and the Zinc Rot issue. MTH may still make that right TBD.

I got a railking j that has american flyer type smoke unit.Its a great puller that runs very good.The only thing I am very happy with my MTH trains.

turbgine posted:

I resumed my interest in electric trains in 1987. I had had American Flyer as a young boy but in 1987 Lionel was the only show in town. Until Jerry Williams sold his tinplate business to a young friend and neighbor named Mike Wolf. His formation of MTH subsequently changed the hobby in the most profound way since Joshua Lionel Cowan at the turn of the last century. Initially working with Richard Kughn when he purchased Lionel the two came up with beautiful new steam engines from a manufacturer in South Korea that we all came to know and respect as Samhongsa. When the relationship deteriorated in the early nineties Mike was faced with a dilemma. How do I keep Samhongsa busy. The answer came in 1994 at York when Mike rolled out his first O gauge locomotive, the Dash 8. From 1994 to the early 2000's Mike produced three Railking and three Premier catalogs a year with a dizzying assortment of new tooling with engines and cars and accessories that heretofore we could only dream of. The Turbine series, the die cast Challengers, the big boys, and my favorite engine, the Erie Triplex. When Bill Benson made his brass steamers with Pittman motors from America, Mike Wolf followed suit. When Lionel came out with TMCC, Mike answered with DCS. One could argue that Lionel has had better sound in their steamers compared to MTH, but no one would argue who has the best smoke units. And, the current diesel sounds from MTH are second to none. As the demographics of our hobby changes, each company has had to make concessions eg. infrequent new tooling and reliance on fantasy schemes and well known entertainment brands. But, through it all Mike Wolf has remained at the helm with great help from his two supporting generals, Rich Foster and Andy Edelman. To my mind Mike Wolf is second only to Joshua Cowan regarding contributions to our beloved hobby.

You have covered all my friend.I have 2 railking locosound steam locomotives.I have a berkshire and a mohawk.That will smoke like the best of them.And will pull a long train.They do not have the best sound.But that is o.k. with me.I can buy a sound car.Mies challengers and big boys knocked the o gauge world for a loop.He made lionel had to get up and take notice.You now could have a good sized locomotive.And not go broke.

jeff55 posted:

It absolutely got me into O gauge. My father in law worked for Electro Motive after the war and took me to the La Grange plant for I believe their 75th anniversary in the mid 90's. While there they had a O Gauge layout setup and I was very impressed with the detail of these locomotives. I asked and they told MTH, never heard of them. Like the original post I too was a HO guy until the eyes started fading but didn't think much of Lionel due to the non scale size. I was instantly hooked on O gauge. Went to my local hobby shop and started buying MTH, until the fall of 1999 and wham, out of nowhere Lionel comes out with the Allegheny, then by Christmas the Big Boy. Wow! Scale stuff with command control from Lionel!  So, to sum it up if MTH was not around I don't believe Lionel would have introduced those models, which we all now enjoy.

 

 

 

You are right they would have kept pumping out.Hudsons FT units switch locomotives and the little 4-4-2.Mth came along with a 2-8-0,DASH 8 SD 40-2.Yea Mth came along with the railking bigboys.Trains lionel did not make.So lionel had to step it up.

graz posted:

I wasn't really in the hobby when MTH was establishing themselves, but I always assumed that Lionel, under Richard K, was primarily producing reissues for the collector market and charging a premium. MTH was pushing technology and detail that Lionel was slower to adopt in their products.

Not true, keep in mind it was Lionel that introduced command control to the O gauge 3 rail market, MTH came up with DCS after. Plus Lionel under Kuhn did start producing a lot more scale items as well, so Lionel wasn't in effect what Williams did ie producing new versions of old post war trains. No knock on MTH, not meant as that, just correcting a misperception. 

Any time you introduce competition to a market, as long as it is not predatory competition, it is a good thing. Having more people enter a market means more interest in it as the choice grows, and I think MTH did that. Kughn IMO gets credit for kickstarting a revival in three rail O and I think MTH helped make it gather steam. Others of course produced some neat products, the WIlliams repros and their brass offerings, Weaver, K Line, all helped as did Atlas entering the market later. I suspect if the 3 rail market had been Lionel only we just wouldn't have seen the breadth of the current market we do today. 

The person who dies with the best toys dies a happy person

I think one of the innovations that MTH did was lower the price of non scale engines and rolling stock.  My first purchase in over 30 years was a Rail King GG1 at the Big E show in Mass and after that a Rail King Genesis set.    But I think the big game changer, for a very short time, was when K-Line started to introduce incredibly low cost scale engines with command control just before their demise.  I believe that it was price and scale which changed everything.

Marty

GG1 4877 posted:

I will agree with others that state that Williams in and Weaver really started the change in the O gauge market.  Nothing against MTH products as I have many.  However the shift to scale trains on 3 rails really started sooner than MTH.

Granted Mr. Wolf was involved at some level with the introduction of budget priced brass steam locomotives at both Willams and Weaver. 

 

You probably should give Mike a little more credit on the Weaver brass scale offerings and the scale diesels.  Without Mike they would not have been produced.  Basically they were sold under the Weaver Brand.

With Samhongsa he really had the ball rolling for Williams, Weaver and subcontracting for Lionel scale items. That was the stuff most of the people I knew were buying so that is where I saw the big change. It all seemed like a natural evolution to take it all under his own name brand. I used to stop by the store as often as I could. Sometimes they'd bring out pilot models and test shots to show the locals at evening gatherings. The Railking stuff seems to have become their bread and butter, good for them.

GVDobler posted:

We have family garage sales now and then.  I have never had a person come up to me and ask "Do you have any MTH trains" but every single time someone comes over and asks "Do you have any Lionel trains."

Not sure that means anything, just saying..

I think that's because Lionel has existed for about 120 years and dominated O Gauge for most of that time.

In my little world, I leave this troubled world behind.

Mike Wolf certainly revolutionized  the o gauge hobby.  Both with MTH and his previous work for Lionel.  Mike and Jerry Williams brought about the move from post war like reissues to modern 3 rail scale, while also expanding reproductions of tinplate and postwar trains. Keep in mind that mike was doing some of this work for Lionel before setting out on his own, so he also deserves credit for a lot of Lionel’s success while working for them.  In summary, they saw a pent up market for better o gauge trains and went after it.  

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