How do you think MTH trains changed the O gauge market?

In the mid-1990s I started buying MTH Railking locomotives. My recollection is that they were about two-thirds the price of modern Lionel locomotives then, and their quality was comparable to Lionel, so I felt I was getting a good deal. 

Did MTH shake things up by doing the above? That may be an overstatement, but I believe MTH did significantly impact the market for O Gauge trains by doing the above.

I also believe modern Lionel and MTH trains have caused Postwar Lionel trains to become more affordable. 

Have Postwar trains kept modern Lionel and MTH trains to be more affordable? I'm not sure if that is true, but I believe it's possible that the Postwar trains have helped keep the prices of modern Lionel and MTH from going through the roof. Arnold

MTH changed the toy train market the way General Motors changed the market for railroad locomotives.  No need to list the innovations. We all know them.  All I can say is congratulations to Mike W. for his courage and success.

Lew Schneider

For me, it was the Williams brass USRA series that changed the market.  The USRA Mikado was a model of a prototype l could relate to, and diverted me from old trains to "scaleplate" models.  MTH did make some new prototypes, but l thought made too many redos, as did Lionel.  New and different rings my chines.

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

In the mid-1990s I started buying MTH Railking locomotives. My recollection is that they were about two-thirds the price of modern Lionel locomotives then, and their quality was comparable to Lionel, so I felt I was getting a good deal. 

Did MTH shake things up by doing the above? That may be an overstatement, but I believe MTH did significantly impact the market for O Gauge trains by doing the above.

I also believe modern Lionel and MTH trains have caused Postwar Lionel trains to become more affordable. 

Have Postwar trains kept modern Lionel and MTH trains to be more affordable? I'm not sure if that is true, but I believe it's possible that the Postwar trains have helped keep the prices of modern Lionel and MTH from going through the roof. Arnold

O.k. lets that a look at mth train sets.You got a locomotive that could have been a rs11 or a 2-8-0.With track that had its own road bed.Meaning you could set up any where.A the sets had good sounds.Mike once said."Train sets are our way to get more people to come back for more.

colorado hirailer posted:

For me, it was the Williams brass USRA series that changed the market.  The USRA Mikado was a model of a prototype l could relate to, and diverted me from old trains to "scaleplate" models.  MTH did make some new prototypes, but l thought made too many redos, as did Lionel.  New and different rings my chines.

I have heard things about williams train.I have a conrail wc dash 8 and a few boxcars.I do not have any steam locomotives from williams.There is one williams by bachmann and that is the 4-6-2 locomotive.Have one of the coolest whistle.

colorado hirailer posted:

For me, it was the Williams brass USRA series that changed the market.  The USRA Mikado was a model of a prototype l could relate to, and diverted me from old trains to "scaleplate" models.  MTH did make some new prototypes, but l thought made too many redos, as did Lionel.  New and different rings my chines.

It was Jerry Williams that got Mike Wolf started in O gauge trains.

Competition breeds innovation.  Just look at cell phones, cellular service, computers, cars, TVs, etc.

Kline, Williams, Atlas, Weaver, 3rd rail, MTH,  and others have all impacted the industry. Better detail, graphics, variety, and hopefully quality.  Without the re-issues of pre and postwar stuff we would still be stuck in the escalating prices of postwar trains.

It's nice to have more options for sure.

aussteve posted:

Competition breeds innovation.  Just look at cell phones, cellular service, computers, cars, TVs, etc.

Kline, Williams, Atlas, Weaver, 3rd rail, MTH,  and others have all impacted the industry. Better detail, graphics, variety, and hopefully quality.  Without the re-issues of pre and postwar stuff we would still be stuck in the escalating prices of postwar trains.

It's nice to have more options for sure.

Well I still MTH did a lot of first.The first diecast 4-6-6-4 steam locomotive with both sets of drivers powered.I will always remember that seeing that locomotive in railking.And its sounds system blew me away.

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

colorado hirailer posted:

For me, it was the Williams brass USRA series that changed the market.  The USRA Mikado was a model of a prototype l could relate to, and diverted me from old trains to "scaleplate" models.  MTH did make some new prototypes, but l thought made too many redos, as did Lionel.  New and different rings my chines.

It was Jerry Williams that got Mike Wolf started in O gauge trains.

True he brought the stuff to make tinplate trains.

MTH was the first to start offering frequent variety of prototypes we all wanted.  Full credit to Jerry Williams for his contributions to the hobby, and introducing Mike Wolf to the business.   Also credit to Richard Kughn at Lionel for sparking interest in modern rolling stock and locomotives.  Mike Wolf took things to a level that in many ways went beyond everyone else.  MTH managed to make O Gauge trains mainstream.  Easily available catalogs and a dealer network.  No longer did we have to hope falsely for trains we wanted to show up in a sparse annual catalog.  Instead, a steady stream of trains we all were waiting for became standard MTH.  I loved the ads in MTHs early years, one featured a C&O Steam locomotive and an O scale man looking at his watch, the caption said something like "you have waited 48 years for this locomotive, " implying MTH will now be making trains we were all waiting for would be finally made.  They have had a few stumbles, and my Turbotrain experiences with MTH are still sore wounds. But 99% of my MTH is flawless and I am glad to have it.  MTH, certainly the most influential part of this true golden age of O Gauge. 

VistaDomeScott posted:

MTH was the first to start offering frequent variety of prototypes we all wanted.  Full credit to Jerry Williams for his contributions to the hobby, and introducing Mike Wolf to the business.   Also credit to Richard Kughn at Lionel for sparking interest in modern rolling stock and locomotives.  Mike Wolf took things to a level that in many ways went beyond everyone else.  MTH managed to make O Gauge trains mainstream.  Easily available catalogs and a dealer network.  No longer did we have to hope falsely for trains we wanted to show up in a sparse annual catalog.  Instead, a steady stream of trains we all were waiting for became standard MTH.  I loved the ads in MTHs early years, one featured a C&O Steam locomotive and an O scale man looking at his watch, the caption said something like "you have waited 48 years for this locomotive, " implying MTH will now be making trains we were all waiting for would be finally made.  They have had a few stumbles, and my Turbotrain experiences with MTH are still sore wounds. But 99% of my MTH is flawless and I am glad to have it.  MTH, certainly the most influential part of this true golden age of O Gauge. 

Yep!MTH meant to me you longer had to pay $600.00 for a mid size locomotive.My first locomotive was an erie berkshire.I have had it pull 25 to 41boxcars.And smoke really good and makes me think of watching an old movie from the 1940s.All in all I am happy with what I have.

aussteve posted:

Competition breeds innovation.  Just look at cell phones, cellular service, computers, cars, TVs, etc.

Kline, Williams, Atlas, Weaver, 3rd rail, MTH,  and others have all impacted the industry. Better detail, graphics, variety, and hopefully quality.  Without the re-issues of pre and postwar stuff we would still be stuck in the escalating prices of postwar trains.

It's nice to have more options for sure.

I totally agree with this. In addition, it brings to mind the old expression "It keeps the competition honest;" because it seemed to me that once MTH entered the marketplace - as they did on a big scale - over and above new innovations Lionel's attention to detail/quality even on smaller issues improved (eg. plastic couplers changing to more die-cast ones that don't pop open as frequently, more die-cast prototypical 'sprung' trucks etc.)

I wasn't really in the hobby when MTH was establishing themselves, but I always assumed that Lionel, under Richard K, was primarily producing reissues for the collector market and charging a premium. MTH was pushing technology and detail that Lionel was slower to adopt in their products.

Quoting Dick Maddox circa 1999, "They're eating our lunch."

I still have my first two MTH Locomotives the first "J" and the first "Hudson" they introduced around 1990 or so and they still run. As far as product support my Hudson took a dive off the layout and bent the cab roof pretty bad several years after I bought and my service center (no longer in business) took down to MTH and they repaired/replaced (not sure which) for no charge. I would challenge you to find the damage today. MTH made a big impact in several areas and still does today. All of my 50+ MTH locomotives were still operating when packed up for the move two years ago and after replacing all of the batteries I bet the will operate again. The only disappoint I have with MTH is my P5 and the Zinc Rot issue. MTH may still make that right TBD.

RJT posted:

I still have my first two MTH Locomotives the first "J" and the first "Hudson" they introduced around 1990 or so and they still run. As far as product support my Hudson took a dive off the layout and bent the cab roof pretty bad several years after I bought and my service center (no longer in business) took down to MTH and they repaired/replaced (not sure which) for no charge. I would challenge you to find the damage today. MTH made a big impact in several areas and still does today. All of my 50+ MTH locomotives were still operating when packed up for the move two years ago and after replacing all of the batteries I bet the will operate again. The only disappoint I have with MTH is my P5 and the Zinc Rot issue. MTH may still make that right TBD.

I got a railking j that has american flyer type smoke unit.Its a great puller that runs very good.The only thing I am very happy with my MTH trains.

My favorite newspaper headline was something like "when the wolf took on the lion and won".

I got back into the hobby in 1997 and began buying MTH Premier scale-sized locomotive models, which are the predominant brand that I have continued to buy during the intervening years. If I remember correctly, back when I started, MTH was producing a wide variety of new scale-sized models and Lionel was not. A few years later, Lionel began to catch up. I would say that Mike Wolf has been a wise business man and a visionary who has revitalized and innovated in the O gauge train market. The success of his company speaks for itself and, I think, the hobby has benefited from the presence of MTH as a major producer. Over the years, I have always been satisfied with the MTH trains that I have purchased.

MELGAR

To me MTH raisex the bar and took straight on the status quo!!!