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I wanted an N5 Crew Express Cabin Car to bring up the rear of my Mail Train.  Nobody makes one for the era I am modeling (1955-1956), so I decided to modify a Lionel N5b.

This is what I started with:

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And this is what I ended up with:

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 I used a lot of references for this project:  In addition to the Keystone article, I used several online photos of the non express cabin cars.  The two that helped me the most are these:

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N5-11

 Finding period correct photos is a challenge.  First of all, no one photographed the rear of the train.  Second, its tough to find a photo that does not depict the cabin after it has been subject to both improvements and regulatory modifications

My special thanks to Bill Nesbitt for some advice and guidance on this project.  As Bill says “I used to work in one of those things” so he knows what he is talking about. Any errors are strictly my own. 

I used 143 brass pieces for this project.  Only 27 were prefabricated (grab irons, brake wheel, chain, etc.  The rest were made from brass stock of various shapes.  These brass pieces were soldered together in sub assemblies.  Several sub assemblies required four parts or more be soldered together.  The largest has 19 separate parts.  This was my first attempt at this sort of thing.  So I learned a lot of skills.  Not to mention the need for high quality (and expensive) swiss cut files, resistance soldering, many types of locking tweezers, heat sinks, and above all, some serious magnifying optics. 

 Here is a photo of the shell with most, but not all, of the brass temporarily applied:

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For the handrails, I wanted to replicate the look of the real thing- namely a bent 1” diameter tube whose ends are welded into separate feet which are then bolted to the body.  The Lionel supplied handrails, although made of brass, are too thick by over 50%, and have no end detail. I ended up making the handrails from four pieces.  The feet are Precision Scale #5623 grab irons. I cut the PSC bars cut off, drilled a .021” diameter hole where the bar was, and soldered a pre-formed .020” phosphor bronze wire in place.  A jig (first drawn with Microsoft Power Point, and then transferred to a piece of MDF) and a resistance soldering unit are essential for these steps:

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The mid span foot is made from an O Scale America (Des Plaines Hobbies) 1002 grab iron.  Note it is smaller than the end feet.   Obviously, the handrail is held in place at the ends by the bent wire, but visually it looks like it is held in place by the feet.

By the way, the cast in Lionel feet are not needed, or wanted, with this design. I shaved them off with one of those nifty detail removers from Micro Mark.  I also had to move the lower holes on the sides…the Lionel ones were too close to the ends.  This wrecks the arc of the curved handrail. What Lionel did was to jut the handrail outward past the end of the car, and then curve it down. I could not find a prototype N5 or N5b with handrails configured that way.  (I could find an N5c though). At any rate, I plugged the errant hole by inserting a .032” diameter styrene rod, wicking Tenax 7R around the rod, and then cutting the rod flush with a razor blade. 

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Here is a photo of the completed end of the cabin:

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The cut lever and chain operate, and the collision posts go below the floor (a feature not usually modeled).  They also angle inward below the platform.  

And here is the view from the other angle:

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 Note the brake handle on the collision post, with the collapsible handle dangling down.  Also note the bracket that holds the air hose.  This is made from five pieces. 

Other highlights of the construction include: 

  1. The car was stripped with alcohol (a trick I learned from David Friedlander).  The body stripped easily, but the diecast roof and cupola were reluctant to give up their paint
  2. I painted the car with a 50/50 mix of Poly Scale Zinc Chromate Primer/Special Oxide Red, cut 50/50 with clear flat, and a drop of Dawn.  Apply in thin coats, and follow with a hairdryer after each coat.
  3. I followed with a coat of Testors 2936 High Gloss Clear Top Coat. I have extolled the virtues of this as a surface for applying decals before, so I won’t repeat them here.   But look at the following photo.  You can clearly see the track reflected in the shell:      2883
  4. The decals were from Mt Vernon Shops.  I think they are still available
  5. I weathered the shell (after the requisite application of DullCote) with Vallejo Dark Brown weathering wash. Apply it in thin, uneven, vertical coats with a 3/8” wide brush. 
  6. I installed the handrails, and anything else painted chrome yellow after the weathering. I held the handrails in place with JB Kwik Weld.  That did a good job plugging up the gap between Lionel handrail holes, which are .032” diameter, and the .020" diameter wire I used.  I then touched up the JB with the body color.
  7. I used microscope cover slips for the windows, held in place with Goo.  They are easy to cut and very thin, so they look right. As an added bonus, and much to my amazement, Lionel recessed the inside of the shell where the main windows go. So you are not looking at a thick window frame.  I coated the outside surface of the windows with a very light coat of Testors Semi Gloss. This gave a prototypical “clean enough to see out of, but noticeably dirty” look
  8. I painted the interior walls a correct tan color.  Other than that I did nothing to the interior.  Interiors are for contest models, and mine is being towed around by a mail train
  9. I took out the interior lights, but kept the marker lights. I moved them outward to get rid of that cross eyed look. I also added a 15 kohm resistor to dim the lights, and a capacitor to keep the lights lit in the highly likely event that it encounters dirty track.
  10. I built a new roof walk, roof platform, and end platform from scale 2 x 8 lumber.  I mounted the roof planks on .080 styrene strips, and added nail holes with a pounce wheel.  I added inverted Grandt Line NBW castings at the end of the strips, so I was able to get the roof walk off the roof, for a more prototypical “see under the roof walk” look
  11. I fabricated full width body bolsters from styrene, but maintained the threaded Lionel mounting hole. 
  12. The trucks are Yoder caboose trucks which are close enough to the elliptical spring 2A-F4 trucks of this era. I had to add pickups to the trucks for the marker lights.  I have no experience with tread mounted pickup wipers, but as mounting them here is easy, and any other place else difficult, I though I’d give it a try:                                                                                                                                      2920
  13. The Lionel underframe is very highly detailed, so I did nothing there.  But it is made of diecast metal.  Which means it conducts electricity, which means the truck pickups have to be isolated.   As can be seen above.
  14. The Couplers are Protocraft, chosen as much for their looks as for the fact that they fit between the collision posts.  I could not use the Lionel provided mounting holes, as they are for a transverse screw pattern, and the Protocraft are longitudinal.  So I made my own mounting pads.
  15. The Lionel figures are in the main body of the car, sitting down and facing each other over a table.  It looks like they are playing checkers.  So I put one of them to work and placed him in the cupoloa.  I had to cut off both his and the chair’s legs.   As supplied, the Lionel figures are too bland.  So I gave them a shower in Dullcote followed with a light application of Vallejo weathering wash.  (Pick a color that contrasts with the clothes and faces).   I am going to do this on all my figures. (Yes, I know I did a sloppy job on the legs on the dude in green. Next time I’ll pay more attention.)                                                                                                                                      2935

 

Well, that’s about it.  I learned a lot, and it took awhile. But I am done.  I doubt I’ll do another one, as I do have a layout to build, and this was a major detour.    But I did learn a lot of skills, and I have a new appreciation for people who routinely do this stuff (e.g. Malcolm, Martin, and others).  In the meantime, here it is in it's rightful spot at the end of my mail train:

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Last edited by John Sethian
Original Post

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Thank you everyone for the kind words and encouragement.  Its very much appreciated!   Especially coming from all you PRR experts out there!

To answer some specific questions:

PRR Man posted:

Great work John. Very thorough. And you've given a couple important tips for my N5e build. Thanks!

I know plastic is easier to work with, but the KTM N5b wasn't a viable starting point?

Chris, while I could have started with any one of a number of N5 modelss,  I chose the Lionel because its dimensions and configuration are spot on.  Plus there is a certain cachet in converting a Lionel car into a really accurate model.  I am told that the KTM N5b has the original (as built) short porch and roof overhang, which would have to be extended to accomodate the collision posts.   More seriously, the cupola sides do not extend down to the sides, but rather end on top of the roof.  So there is a little porch between the cupola side and the roof.  That would have been a challenge to deal with.  And, of course, working with plastic is easier!

BobbyD posted:

A very nicely done project. Where are the decals from?

 

Bobby D, I got mine from Mount Vernon Shops:

 http://www.mountvernonshops.com/

They don't list the O scale decals on their website, but give them a call. Maybe they will print a set for you

G3750 posted:

Awesome John!     I trust we'll see this cabin car at the PRRT&HS Annual Meeting in May?  It should win something!

George

George, thanks for the encouragement.  I will go, but I don't know if my cabin will.  First I am not much on contests, second I don't plan to stay for the whole meeting.

Gregg posted:

  As a retired conductor it's   nice to see.  Really well done . I like the knuckle, hose bags and  uncoupling  lever.  Why the 2 hose bags? 

Gregg.. one hose is for the brake airline, the other for the signal line.   Oddly enough, I was able to use the Lionel provided brake air hose.  It is too big a diameter for the brake line, but just right for the signal hose!

flanger posted:

John...That Cabin is stunning, and your execution is masterful. This project and the exceptional results go far beyond the average posting here, and I appreciate seeing someone go the distance to build something so outstanding.  You do Pennsy proud!

Bob

Bob,  thanks for the kind words, but more importantly, sorry I did not mention my appreciation of your work in my original post!  I still have a photo of your N8 on my computer.  

Cheers!

John

 

 

 

Last edited by John Sethian

John, for the horizontal bar guards on the end platforms, that bolt to the collision posts, is that solid rod or hollow tube?

During my N5e bash, I modeled those bars with rod and flattened the ends with a very fine finish nail set that had a dome-shaped inset head. I used brass rod and the nail set rendered a very nice example of a flattened end with bolt head. Now I'm thinking hollow tube of the same diameter may work better.

and oh yes, powerful optics are definitely necessary!

Chris

I did what you did.  I used a solid brass rod, .032" diameter. I flattened the ends with a 1/4" diameter pin punch. I laid the rod on a stainless steel plate (I just happen to have one), taped the rod down so it won't move and then placed the pin punch over the end of it.  I then wacked the punch with a ball peen hammer.  The round edge of the punch gave the desirable natural transition from round to flat.  I then trimmed off the excess flat region, and rounded the outboard edges.   

For the nut, I did it two ways. One was to drill  a .015" diameter hole, solder in a phosphor bronze rod, and then file it until I got a suitable nut shaped contour.   The other was to use an Archer Rivet.  The latter was a whole lot easier, and much less stressful, as I did not have to worry about any solder joints coming loose.

In retrospect, I should have drilled the .015" diameter hole first, then solder the bar, and then drill out the hole (if it filled up with solder).  I would have then used Grandt Line or Tichy NBW castings. 

 

 

Thanks guys for the comments.  Alos, thanks Goerge for encouraging me to bring it.  George, and Rob, sorry I did not get to meet you guys.  Perhaps next year!

By the way, I really enjoyed the convention. Most of the talks were very good, some were outstanding.  Particularly the talk on The GG1 development by Hampton Wayt, and the talk on N5 cabin cars by Matt Hurst.  Regarding the latter, I considered myself rather brave to attend it,  as I am sure I would discover all the mistakes I made.   Matt gave a great talk, and then graciously came by to look at my model.  I was happy to find out I got it right.

By the way, several times I walked by my display, and a recurring theme among the viewers was something like "I should have/should be in O scale, but I am too invested in HO."

John Sethian posted:

I wanted an N5 Crew Express Cabin Car to bring up the rear of my Mail Train.  

Here is a photo of the completed end of the cabin:

                                                                                                                                   

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John,

 That is one fine looking cabin car. Nice job on all aspects from your brass and styrene additions through to the painting and weathering. 

 One question...in the above picture, you have an amazing representation of a Pennsy fence. Recently, I bought a full-sized fence section and yours is spot on. Who made it? 

Tom 

John Sethian posted:

Thanks guys for the comments.  Alos, thanks Goerge for encouraging me to bring it.  George, and Rob, sorry I did not get to meet you guys.  Perhaps next year!

By the way, I really enjoyed the convention. Most of the talks were very good, some were outstanding.  Particularly the talk on The GG1 development by Hampton Wayt, and the talk on N5 cabin cars by Matt Hurst.  Regarding the latter, I considered myself rather brave to attend it,  as I am sure I would discover all the mistakes I made.   Matt gave a great talk, and then graciously came by to look at my model.  I was happy to find out I got it right.

By the way, several times I walked by my display, and a recurring theme among the viewers was something like "I should have/should be in O scale, but I am too invested in HO."

John,

You did all the hard work and deserve the recognition for a really spectacular model. I'm just good at recognizing talent.

My stay at the meeting was limited to most of Friday.  I really wanted to attend the GG1 talk, but it wasn't in the cards.  I did see Matt Hurst's presentation on cabin cars. 

George

MNCW posted:
John Sethian posted:

I wanted an N5 Crew Express Cabin Car to bring up the rear of my Mail Train.  

Here is a photo of the completed end of the cabin:

                                                                                                                                   

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John,

 That is one fine looking cabin car. Nice job on all aspects from your brass and styrene additions through to the painting and weathering. 

 One question...in the above picture, you have an amazing representation of a Pennsy fence. Recently, I bought a full-sized fence section and yours is spot on. Who made it? 

Tom 

Tom,

Millhouse River Studio (716) 830-5267 has pipe railing and stanchions, but they are not the guy I'm thinking of.

George

"One question...in the above picture, you have an amazing representation of a Pennsy fence. Recently, I bought a full-sized fence section and yours is spot on. Who made it?"

Those brass Pennsy pipe railing stanchions are made by SMR.  Steve Grabowski is the gentleman's name.  I don't have contact information but forum member Keystoned Ed does.  Steve's are better scale representations than the ones from Millhouse.

Last edited by Bob

Steve Grabowski offers the PRR hairpin railing posts in two correct styles.  The flat base kind seen on John Sethian's post and the kind where one leg is fastened vertically.  I'm using the latter style on a double stone arch bridge I have under construction on my Middle Division.  After the bridge is finished and the river poured I'll post some pictures on the forum.  

If anyone would like to contact Steve Grabowski to purchase His lost wax brass PRR railing sets you can email me off line and I'll send you his contact info.

Last edited by Keystoned Ed

John,

I've been back here reading your post as I get ready to modify severaL PC cabin cars. I recently purchased the pictured book and I have become enamored by the PC, especially the ex-PRR cabins. I have decided that I need some of these in my collection. I don’t know what it is that has always drawn me to the PC.

Thanks for you info concerning your beautiful conversion. BTW, the Yanosey PC book is great!

Malcolm

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