How many engines can be operated with Lionel Bluetooth

I think you can only have one engine at a time connected to your device. If you drop it, and don't have a cab-1 or cab-2 or DCS controller addressing it (which you can have both simultaneously), it should stop. You can have multiple devices if you want.

I'm not sure if there is a limit as to how many engines Bluetooth can recognize. I have nine at the moment, but I only tried the app on the first three. Actually, it was my wife who ran them with her phone. I stick to the old cab-1's. 

I'm pretty sure Big Boy is right. You can control only one loco at a time per device but you can control as many locos as devices. If you had 200 smart phones and tablets each could control a locomotive all at the same time.

There is no reasonable technical limit to the number of bluetooth engines that can be operated simultaneously from a single smart device. I have done four with my BlueRail engines. Lionel chose by design to limit single device bluetooth operation to one loco at a time. This, of course, could be subject to change.

You can control 3 from the Universal remote at same time.

SandJam posted:

You can control 3 from the Universal remote at same time.

 

I thought that was only for Lion Chief in all its variations, not Bluetooth.

Thanks to all. I don't have Lionel Bluetooth yet. Looks like the universal control is the answer for Lionchief.

"I thought that was only for Lion Chief in all its variations, not Bluetooth."

I believe the Universal Remote works seamlessly amongst LionChief and Bluetooth, so three engines would be individually programmable, whether they are Bluetooth, LionChief or both.   I have not tested this however.  Bluetooth can be utilized from their app and a smart device as well.

The OP specifically mentioned the App, so I would read that as meaning he wants t know how many from a single phone/tablet.  The universal remote would not be considered an App.

-Dave

Landsteiner is correct. The Universal remote will control Legacy with bluetooth engines. Updates on the Universal remote are done via bluetooth.

Yes it will control ANY Lionel BT engine, Lionchief, Lionchief Plus, Legacy, etc

I posted a video on it previously.

When we refer to bluetooth operation, this also generally means using an app on a smart device to control the engine.  The Lionel bluetooth app will only control one engine. The app could be reconfigured to handle more and provide multiple operation like that of the universal controller. I have found that multiple engine control on a smart device app is very nice.

BOB WALKER posted:

When we refer to bluetooth operation, this also generally means using an app on a smart device to control the engine.  The Lionel bluetooth app will only control one engine. The app could be reconfigured to handle more and provide multiple operation like that of the universal controller. I have found that multiple engine control on a smart device app is very nice.

Bluerail system, or modded software?

And before hopes jump too high, BR likely isn't at all Lionel compatible outside of a total electrical swap, correct?

Adriatic posted:

BOB WALKER posted:

When we refer to bluetooth operation, this also generally means using an app on a smart device to control the engine.  The Lionel bluetooth app will only control one engine. The app could be reconfigured to handle more and provide multiple operation like that of the universal controller. I have found that multiple engine control on a smart device app is very nice.

Bluerail system, or modded software?

And before hopes jump too high, BR likely isn't at all Lionel compatible outside of a total electrical swap, correct?

Correct, You'll need to swap boards. Bluetooth doesn't make everything universally compatible. The Bluerail & LC control systems are proprietary and not compatible with each other.

BOB WALKER posted:

There is no reasonable technical limit to the number of bluetooth engines that can be operated simultaneously from a single smart device. I have done four with my BlueRail engines. Lionel chose by design to limit single device bluetooth operation to one loco at a time. This, of course, could be subject to change.

This isn't exactly true.  Because BlueTooth is a point to point standard, your phone actually has to open and close connections with each engine in a cycle.  Typical low cost BLE chips shouldn't have much trouble talking to a dozen engines, but if you want to connect to a bluetooth speaker at the same time,  you might have a problem.  In the end it depends on the processing power of your device and the quality of the bluetooth transceiver it has.  There will also be some practical limit in how many engines can be run based on the time it takes to cycle through connections.  At some point it will take too long to run down the list before needing to check back with the first engine.  

Bluetooth is an amazing protocol, but it's not actually a good one for talking to many things at once.  Wifi, xbee, and zwave are all better suited... they just have the down side that your phone doesn't know how to speak on them.  

Several of my BlueRail equipped engines also have an on-board bluetooth speaker which connects with the BlueRail app where the sounds are stored.  I have never experienced any difficulty connecting with the main decoder board and the speaker decoder simultaneously with several engines running at the same time. Can't say for sure what the ultimate breaking point would be, but it's probably higher than any sensible number of engines to run simultaneously, so don't see any fundamental weakness in bluetooth for most train control applications.

BOB WALKER posted:

Several of my BlueRail equipped engines also have an on-board bluetooth speaker which connects with the BlueRail app where the sounds are stored.  I have never experienced any difficulty connecting with the main decoder board and the speaker decoder simultaneously with several engines running at the same time. Can't say for sure what the ultimate breaking point would be, but it's probably higher than any sensible number of engines to run simultaneously, so don't see any fundamental weakness in bluetooth for most train control applications.

The Bluetooth speaker option will only work with one engine. If you run more than one, you can only pick sound for one Bluerail engine at a time. Bluetooth isn't capable of streaming multiple audio streams to multiple specific destinations from one device.

The general rule with Bluetooth is that you can pair as many devices to a master device like a phone or tablet but you can only interface and communicate with seven at the same time.  Using a brand new laptop, I tested this theory and seven was the limit. By the time device number eight was activated, other Bluetooth devices stopped working. 

Train control apps are not your limitation, the way the Bluetooth stack is written and the way the 802.15 protocol operates will be what holds you back.

Sort of my point with sending to many devices.  The bluetooth standard requires that you stop talking to one device, go through the handshaking procedure with the next device, send the information to that device, then disconnect from it before moving to the next one.  the process of connecting and disconnecting actually takes much more processing power/time than the information needed to run the engines.  When you mix in an audio stream it won't hurt that one stream to break data flow for a couple hundred microseconds to send out data to the engines, but to put it in perspective the amount of data that needs to be send for a mid-grade quality audio stream is 20 times the total capacity of the TMCC/Legacy system if it sent as much data as it possibly could.  You can sneak a few train commands in there with little trouble.  The problem comes in when you account for the overhead of the bluetooth protocol its self.  By the time connections can be opened and closed, you get a practical limit of about 7 devices that can operate without one of them interfering with any of the others.  You could probably force about twice that many to work if they don't need much bandwidth.  

Try juggling 7 balls.  You cannot do it.  So I'd venture the guess that 7 objects under active control is more than any mortal is capable of dealing with successfully .

Unless you are running a series of MUs. On my small layout 5 to 7 engines operating at one time is a regular occurrence. On my larger portable and stationary layouts I've easily run anywhere from 6 to 8 consists running at one time with up to 16 powered units all needing command control.

Juggling that many trains with Legacy & DCS is pretty easy... almost mind numbing.