How safe is model train smoke?

I think if you’re worried about it don’t turn it on. It’s a pretty simple solution for anyone concerned.

Im sure Dr. Neil has some insight. Me. I run smoke.

I'm pretty sure I'll die of something else before vaporized mineral oil kills me, I'm running my smoke!

@MartyE posted:

I think if you’re worried about it don’t turn it on. It’s a pretty simple solution for anyone concerned.

Im sure Dr. Neil has some insight. Me. I run smoke.

Thanks for your input, Marty. If I'm worried at all, it's only a tiny bit. As I mentioned before, I love the smoke feature. I plan to continue to enjoy it in moderation.

Still, I wonder about its safety, and am curious what others think. Arnold

Arnold, I run an engine one time with smoke - when it’s brand new and I’m making sure that function works. After I’ve confirmed it works, it is turned off and stays off.

Now, my youngest son, who still maintains a layout in my basement till his wife gives him room in their basement, loves smoke. When he’s in my basement running trains he is a true believer in maximum smoke output. When he is downstairs running, I can’t go down there. While everything I’ve read on the topic indicates model train smoke isn’t harmful, it makes it difficult for me to breathe. It may be purely psychological on my part but, if I can’t breathe in a roomful of train smoke that’s MY reality.

Curt

I know it is dangerous to people with respiratory conditions like asthma.  I posted on this about 3+ years ago and learned a lot because my wife has asthma.  A lot of good came out of that post because I purchased an awesome air purifier out of Canada and put it in my train room.  When I run smoke, my train room is sealed beneath the door with a rag and the purifier cleanses the air 100% using a heavy-duty carbon filter.

Since then, because I run the purifier on low 24 hrs. a day, the air quality in our home is remarkably better and my wife ran it high during Covid whenever we had an unexpected visitor or contractor visiting.  It also removes a lot of dust in the train room and the rest of the basement.

Mike

Curt, I greatly appreciate your above post. If model train smoke affects your breathing at all, it's certainly best for you to shut off the smoke feature on your trains.

I'm more like your youngest son. Like him, I set the smoke at maximum output, and never turn it off. Whenever I don't want smoke, I simply run trains that don't have the smoke feature. Arnold

It's not smoke. It is vapor; fog, if you will. There's no combustion.

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Thanks for your input, Marty. If I'm worried at all, it's only a tiny bit. As I mentioned before, I love the smoke feature. I plan to continue to enjoy it in moderation.

Still, I wonder about its safety, and am curious what others think. Arnold

I have an assortment of comments.

A fellow TCA member who is also an MD did suggest that a sign be posted on public display layouts warning that asthmatics may be sensitive to the smoke.  I have the exact wording somewhere.

I do know that Rich Melvin does not want the contents of smoke fluids revealed in detail.

Most fluids are petroleum distillates which cover a long list of chemicals.  Many, when vaporized, are near harmless.

Having designed fluids for the TAS smoke unit, I can tell you that many folks I have talked with have used fluids that are toxic and dangerous.  There is no room for experimentation here, just use what the marketplace offers.

Regards,

Lou N

Back in the 50's, I used to inhale the smoke directly out of the engine stack and exhale it to make believe I was smoking a cigarette. 

I'd be more concerned about the pesticides in your oatmeal.

Smoke ‘vapor’ is indeed a valid concern and I am surprised every manufacturer is not required to have an MSDS for it, we have to have one for EVERY minor chemical we use at most places I do maintenance as a precaution against any possible legal action with the public we serve in Motels and apartments.

I’ve also been around ‘fog’ a lot in my small part in the live entertainment industry (play music, volunteer at our local independent radio station and act as roadie/ sound man/ videographer for friends’ bands).

Commercial fog is just glycerin of various percentages, but even this basic chemical causes trouble in people with asthma and other issues that cause sensitive lungs, indeed there is building proof of simple vaporized glycerin causing this and it may get to a point we have to post signs around, which is no problem for me, I want to keep friends, family and fans safe and comfortable!

I know there have been many formulations of model train ‘smoke’ over the years, many ‘patent’ or at least ‘trade secret’ products, I would not doubt that sooner or later MSDS sheets will need to be made available for liability concerns.

I don’t know what these cost manufacturers  to generate but personally, I feel much more comfortable knowing if there are ANY concerns, I can pull out my binder and show it to anyone concerned and that generally is the end of the story. Insurance companies love full disclosure, tort lawyers generally don’t pursue action where full disclosure is made.

Though it has never been asked of me, if an attorney wanted more information about what I use I would be glad to flood them with a deluge of technical documentation that would make their head spin. 😊

Mine is a non-smoking house.  I learned from our gas company technician that women have 10x better sense of smell than men, so I respect her wishes of no model train smoke.

I've run smoke for years and still going strong....

But seriously, I have allergies and it does not irritate my nose or eyes. I think after all these years if there were a correlation between train smoke and health issues, it would have surfaced by now..

Arnold - this is a "Very interesting" post -as always!

I never inhale...

I don't really have a dog in this hunt inasmuch as  I only have two steam locos and there is no black smoke available for my six Alcos. In both instances I have cut the wires to those two smoke units to permanently disable them. Why? Because the smoke makes my eyes water and stings my nostrils; while a former member of our Thursday night train group loved smoke and in spite of being asked not to, turned the smoke units on whenever I wasn't looking or elsewhere in the room.

I've inhaled much worse than train smoke many, many years ago and I am still here. Might have killed and/or dusted some brain cells but the amount of smoke we inhale from running trains is a lot less than what was consumed in the "hey man, this is good s--t" days.

Besides, we can buy all kinds of flavor/smell!

Keep running those trains.

Arnold, I applaud you for having the courage to raise this issue. I imagine a lot of readers are rolling their eyes at this question, IMO mostly because they love their smoke and don't want to entertain the possibility that this great hobby could pose a hazard to their health. But common sense tells us that breathing in foreign substances in a confined space can at best be neutral and at worse be hazardous. I think yours is a very valid concern, and that makers of smoke generators (not just Lionel but Seuthe and others) should be transparent about what's in their smoke and what the potential health effects are.

Is there a safety data sheet available?

I found this in about 2 seconds:

https://mthtrains.com/news/006