How-To guide for building a new dome structure on your passenger car

Nice job and excellent write up! What type of paint is it that you got from Home Depot? Just curious, what a great idea!

Outstanding!!!  THANK YOU!!!

Very nice work and progressive instructions!

custom fit!!!!! That's a pro job, way to go. A+ from the Art Teacher!!!!

Nice job.

I made my own end cap because I did not want to purchase a whole car just for the end cap. Then I'd have to go through the trouble of selling the rest of the leftover car. 

Great job. Great write-up. Did you airbrush the paint?

AGHRMatt posted:

Great job. Great write-up. Did you airbrush the paint?

Thanks Matt, 

I’m new to the hobby and have not purchased an air brush set up.  But I read its possible if you thin down the Home Depot paint with water it will work in an air brush.  Hopefully an air brush would give better results also.

For those that don't want to cut windows into the back of a Rock Island, Golden State, Golden Divian, K4632-0479, 18" passenger car.  You're welcome to just paint that Golden State car Armour Yellow & Harbor Mist Gray with a red stripe and it will still be historically correct. 

During my research I found out Union Pacific's City of San Francisco ran that exact 10/6 sleeper car (SP car number 9040) on the end of there 1954 train.

Thanks,

Really great job and a good writeup on what you did and your perseverance -- not to mention your 'obsession' with the fidelity to the prototype.  At some point in the late '50s/early 60's I rode in one of UP's blunt end observation cars -- don't think it was the dome version.  It was on the connecting train UP ran between Seattle and Portland, timed to meet the out-bound City of Portland.  I don't recall UP having boat-tail observation cars -- at least not on the two City of (Portland and SF) trains on which I rode.  My recollection is that the last car in the consist was typically a sleeper that had a 'portable' Mars light stuck in the vestibule before the diaphragm, along with a waist-high 'gate' to prevent someone from falling out of the car should they have managed to get by the disabled pneumatic door at the end of the car.

I have in mind a similar project -- the CA zephyr at one point sported a dome - observation car (a 'boat tail' version), in fact I think one of those cars still exists.  American Flyer (S gauge) made a four-car Aluminum passenger set -- combine, coach, dome and observation car.  I have extras of the dome and observation cars purchased with the idea of removing the boat tail on one and attaching it to the dome car.  In this case, its gonna require some cutting of the end of the dome car to get the truck position correct.  The only way I can see to do that - since I don't have a milling machine and I'm certain I can't make a straight enough cut with a hand saw - is to fire up my radial arm saw with a non-ferrous metal cutting blade and see if I can get a straight and square cut that way.  I've seen a picture of someone else's attempt at this - which was well done - but no details on how they did it.  Since these are 'generic' passenger cars, there are few true prototype details, so this will be, at best, a "if you squint your eyes, it looks pretty good" effort.

Outstanding, both in terms of explanation of what you did and the result.

Regarding the UP red striping, I have seen the original color duplicated accurately on decals. It is not easy to cut and apply decal striping in long straight lengths, however, and then it has to be overcoated with clear (usually Dullcote) to make sure it sticks and does not flake off. But even that would not be a guarantee of matching the K-Line color, which was probably applied over the yellow used for the car sides.

Anyway, it all depends on how the car itself looks to your eye. This page, on how UP engine and passenger car colors come out on the internet, was an eye opener to me in terms of trying to match what you can see in photos: http://utahrails.net/up/up-paint-html.php

richs09 posted:

Really great job and a good writeup on what you did and your perseverance -- not to mention your 'obsession' with the fidelity to the prototype.  At some point in the late '50s/early 60's I rode in one of UP's blunt end observation cars -- don't think it was the dome version.  It was on the connecting train UP ran between Seattle and Portland, timed to meet the out-bound City of Portland.  I don't recall UP having boat-tail observation cars -- at least not on the two City of (Portland and SF) trains on which I rode.  My recollection is that the last car in the consist was typically a sleeper that had a 'portable' Mars light stuck in the vestibule before the diaphragm, along with a waist-high 'gate' to prevent someone from falling out of the car should they have managed to get by the disabled pneumatic door at the end of the car.

I have in mind a similar project -- the CA zephyr at one point sported a dome - observation car (a 'boat tail' version), in fact I think one of those cars still exists.  American Flyer (S gauge) made a four-car Aluminum passenger set -- combine, coach, dome and observation car.  I have extras of the dome and observation cars purchased with the idea of removing the boat tail on one and attaching it to the dome car.  In this case, its gonna require some cutting of the end of the dome car to get the truck position correct.  The only way I can see to do that - since I don't have a milling machine and I'm certain I can't make a straight enough cut with a hand saw - is to fire up my radial arm saw with a non-ferrous metal cutting blade and see if I can get a straight and square cut that way.  I've seen a picture of someone else's attempt at this - which was well done - but no details on how they did it.  Since these are 'generic' passenger cars, there are few true prototype details, so this will be, at best, a "if you squint your eyes, it looks pretty good" effort.

Thank you Richs09 for the support.  I have read the Union Pacific stopped using the Sun Valley boat tail observation car in April 1955 for the City of Los Angeles train when they got there dome cars.  I have not researched when the UP stopped using the Nob Hill (City of San Francisco) or the Ogallal (City of Denver).

Also, since I'm only modeling the City of Los Angeles train I have not tracked down the history of the other City trains that used flat end observation cars.  I know the Union Pacific still had flat end cars like the Baldy Mountain, Russian Hill (aka Hoover Dam) that got used well into the 1950's.

The California Zephyr observation dome car you are looking for is named the "Silver Solarium".  Yes, it's a great car an still exists today.

Thanks,

Jeff78rr posted:

Nice job and excellent write up! What type of paint is it that you got from Home Depot? Just curious, what a great idea!

Thanks Jeff.  The paint was Behr 8oz samples. I asked for a flat finish in the Armour yellow and matte finish in the Harbor Mist gray.  Although the gray roof of the K-Line passenger car has some shine on it, I was worried a satin finish would give too much gloss.

richs09 posted:

                                              ***********************

I have in mind a similar project -- the CA zephyr at one point sported a dome - observation car (a 'boat tail' version), in fact I think one of those cars still exists.  American Flyer (S gauge) made a four-car Aluminum passenger set -- combine, coach, dome and observation car.  I have extras of the dome and observation cars purchased with the idea of removing the boat tail on one and attaching it to the dome car.  In this case, its gonna require some cutting of the end of the dome car to get the truck position correct.  The only way I can see to do that - since I don't have a milling machine and I'm certain I can't make a straight enough cut with a hand saw - is to fire up my radial arm saw with a non-ferrous metal cutting blade and see if I can get a straight and square cut that way.  I've seen a picture of someone else's attempt at this - which was well done - but no details on how they did it.  Since these are 'generic' passenger cars, there are few true prototype details, so this will be, at best, a "if you squint your eyes, it looks pretty good" effort.

Rich:  (1) can you remove a dome from one of your extra cars; and, (2) do you have an extra observation car?

I did basically that with a PW LIONEL 2531 observation car using a donor dome from a 2532 vista dome coach many years ago using a beater obs car and beater dome.  Actually, the cut in the roof was done by a buddy--I just gave him the aluminum shell and the dome.  Worked just fine.  Even offset the dome towards the rear of the obs car, rather than center it.

My suggestion would be to find a "buddy" with a mill and have the job done right.

Good luck with the project. 

Hancock52 posted:

Outstanding, both in terms of explanation of what you did and the result.

Regarding the UP red striping, I have seen the original color duplicated accurately on decals. It is not easy to cut and apply decal striping in long straight lengths, however, and then it has to be overcoated with clear (usually Dullcote) to make sure it sticks and does not flake off. But even that would not be a guarantee of matching the K-Line color, which was probably applied over the yellow used for the car sides.

Anyway, it all depends on how the car itself looks to your eye. This page, on how UP engine and passenger car colors come out on the internet, was an eye opener to me in terms of trying to match what you can see in photos: http://utahrails.net/up/up-paint-html.php

 

Wow, great link to Union Pacific paint information Hancock.   I feel much better about how my paint colors turned out after reading that link.    

Also, last week the Union Pacific just ran an 25 car excursion passenger train through the Cajon Pass with the Big Boy in the lead.  After studying the photos I noticed the Harbor Mist gray on the roof of the 4808 (City of Los Angeles diner car) in the front is much lighter than the following dome car 8008 (Colorado Eagle).  Even the blanked off window section in the middle of the 8008 side are a slightly darker shade Armour Yellow than the rest of the car in this photo.

I still have to wait another week for my next K-Line 8003 project car to arrive.  Once it does I will keep you updated on the progress to make it into the 9003. 

T. Albers -- thanks for the info on the various UP observation cars -- quite a variety, including - indeed - boat-tail cars.  Who knew... (not me in any event).  The last one you show with the round windows looks very "Art Deco-ish", I wonder if it was designed by Keene, who had designed some motor cars with, IIRC, round windows (and a tapered tail).

One of the current UP tail-end cars (the only one??) -- the Kenefick -- as it appeared as part of the 4014 tour (note the drumhead) - we saw it in southwestern UT a few weeks ago.  This picture was taken in the big town of Modena (pop. 21), where there must have been over a 1000 people trackside waiting for 4014 (it was a 'lubrication' stop).  This picture was taken 'downstream' of the crowd as the 4014 was headed out of town.

Indeed, the old CB&Q CA Zephyr vista dome/observation car is the Silver Solarium (apparently the only one remaining out of seven built).  Its now owned by a private company that does rail charters.  It was built in 1948 and refurbished a few years ago (my aspiration doesn't extend to doing the interior...).  Here's a link to some nice interior shots  http://www.libertyship.com/LA_.../Silver_Solarium.htm  and more detail.

Carl -- my original thought was to do as you suggest, cut a hole in the top of an existing observation car and insert the dome (even easier with the successor passenger cars to the Al ones, as they were made of plastic).  But I like the 'more authentic' look of the smaller windows (where the passage way goes around the stairs going up to the 'real' dome) and, of course, having the dome offset.  The smaller windows are only available on the Al cars -- the later plastic versions all had identically sized windows the length of the car.   The pictures below show what someone else did (a nice job IMHO).  When Gilbert built the Flyer Al passenger cars, the ends of the cars, including the boat tail, were cast Aluminum with a small flange that fits inside the Al car body and is held in place with the screws shown in the top views (hardly prototypical...!).  The geometry of the window placement and the wheel 'well' forces one to make a cut just before the last window of the original dome car - even though the wheel well is a bit elongated.

The other thing that these photos show is the good job the person did in polishing the Al (I don't remember where these photos are from -- eBay I think) -- I have a jar of Mother's Al and Mag wheel polish all ready to go...

Rich, thanks for the photos, especially the dome observation car--I agree, the fellow did a very nice job.  And thanks also for the detailed description of your choice and plans.  Looking forward to following your progress.

In my case, I was premature with my project by about a decade since LIONEL eventually produced a dome observation car that was included in a four-car Santa Fe Super Chief set of 15" shiny cars around 2001. 

T.Albers posted:

Also, last week the Union Pacific just ran an 25 car excursion passenger train through the Cajon Pass with the Big Boy in the lead.  After studying the photos I noticed the Harbor Mist gray on the roof of the 4808 (City of Los Angeles diner car) in the front is much lighter than the following dome car 8008 (Colorado Eagle).  Even the blanked off window section in the middle of the 8008 side are a slightly darker shade Armour Yellow than the rest of the car in this photo.

That same color difference is evident in various photos of the actual Overland dining car that is part of Lionel's current Excursion Car offerings. Here is one example of it in an Excursion consist:

I put the difference down to either wear and tear or a different paint used on the roof because of the presence of diner kitchen exhaust vents. Notably, in fine scale brass HO Excursion Cars, the paint difference is not replicated. Frankly, the HO researchers' approach is good enough for me and on the Lionel 21" Overland StationSounds diner I am working on I don't propose to change the stock roof color, which bis the same as all the other cars in the set.

I've had problems in the past with trying to paint yellow over gray primer, the color comes out too much chartreuse.

Lou1985 posted:

Nice job.

I made my own end cap because I did not want to purchase a whole car just for the end cap. Then I'd have to go through the trouble of selling the rest of the leftover car. 

I tried sacrificing a K-Line Golden Divan for my Lionel dome and it truly was a "sacrifice" because nothing lined up.  I whittled away at it but couldn't get the profile or the guts to line up, ruined the end cap, threw in the towel and started posting a Topic on the Forum.  My belief that K-Line copied Lionel exactly was debunked and I now have the leftover parts, per Lou's speculation. 

However, inspired by your fine work and Lou's great success, my next attempt will use a standard Lionel car end casting as a platform on which to build my own blunt-end cap.  Starting out with guts and carbody profile that line up plus standard attaching hardware functional seems like the way to go.  Thanks to all who contributed!

Once, again, the Forum turns out to be the most important tool in my toolbox!