How to run / sync two or more Lionel hand cars in tandem?

Just connect them together, they should run together pretty well.  As long as they have the same drive system, the speed should match close enough that nothing else is required.

I'm thinking it's pushing your luck to attempt to actually pull/push any other rolling stock with them.

Without actually putting them next to one another (have you done this test yet?), I'm thinking the rolling stock coupler would probably be too close to the figures to not have impact on operation.  (Maybe I'm wrong, like I said, I don't have a HC and boxcar with me at the moment to compare).

Even without the potential for interference, these little motors aren't that strong.  K-line did several models years ago that pulled an unpowered trailing car the same size as the handcar itself, but I really don't think they would do too well with actual rolling stock, even if you can figure out a way to couple them together.

I'd love to see pics/video if you do this and are successful though!

-Dave

You are going to have to make a drawbar and pegs in the handcar plastic chassis to run together. A coupler addition is not really feasible. As far as operating together, the only ones you couldn't run together with the later ones are the original 8401 with the orange frame, and the first two Santa and Mrs. Clause. These 3 had earlier motors and draw more power than the ones issued after them. As far as pulling anything anyway, good luck! They can barely get themself's around the track.

You can pull something light with one handcar.    This is a TMCC and sound equipped one, the electronics are in the wagon.

If the handcar motor is underpowered, perhaps you could swap in a motorized truck in one of the freight cars.  Presumably you'd want the handcar pumping mechanism to operate to give the illusion that the handcar is the motive force...so may need to figure some way to dis-engage its transmission.

I wonder if just yanking the motor would do it, it has a worm that drives the wheels, and the handle is geared to the drive.  Looks like you could just pop the motor out.

In addition to the Looney Tunes and Disney handcars I have the earlier orange colored handcar and also the first Santa and Mrs. Claus handcar. Thanks for pointing out, the difference in motor power and design. I was unaware that this unit has a different motor unit than later hand car motor power.

I hedged not to “toy” with or test the handcars together fearing damaging the motors and playing safe to question if the motors needed to be synced, loosely comparing the theory of how transformers are phased together.

I was unaware of the features in the K-Line Clown handcar, it's cool. I like these ideas put forward, something to consider for a loop under the Christmas tree. 

Incidentally I found this online video and I’m fascinated how the Mickey Mouse Handcar reverses between the two Lionel postwar bumpers. Does anyone believe this is possible to achieve using an activation switch in the bumper to trip the track to reverse Lionel’s hand cars? Here's the link:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?...22&v=jqINmnwSibw  Otherwise I found another online video that uses a trailer modification for reversing a handcar, along with corresponding article containing instructions from another site.                                                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsiTdbncAUg                                                                  Instructions:  http://ctt.trains.com/~/media/.../lionel_handcar.ashx

Most handcars have a simple rectifier to drive the motor with no reverse.  That's what I started out with for my K-Line clown car.  I kinda' went "all in" and added command control and sounds.  The Minnie Mouse trailer you posted is a similar concept with just a conventional reverse unit, but he mentions extra pickups.  FWIW, I actually used an old powered chassis for the trailer so I could have two more pickups  With eight wheels and four pickups, I haven't had any issues with this stalling on any switches and the like.

In re how to reverse a handcar between bumpers for an out-and-back track (vs. loop).  If expanding the discussion to include different manufacturers and/or modified handcars, one technique is a mechanical sliding switch which reverses polarity to the DC motor when the handcar hits an end bumper.  Search for "bump-n-go" handcars or trolleys.  Though this method only makes sense with a standalone handcar (no freight car loads or consists). 

If auto-reversing without bumping is the goal, take a look at trolley systems - such as from Dallee.

Or if you're of the do-it-yourself mindset, as GRJ notes most of these handcars have simple electronics to convert track AC voltage to DC voltage for the DC-motor.  You're simply looking for a way to reverse the DC-motor polarity at each end.  One way to do this is put a 10-cent magnet on the track near/before each bumper and a 25-cent magnetic sensor on the car which flips a $2 onboard relay (so-called "DPDT") to reverse the motor voltage.  This video was for a different discussion but illustrates the concept.  

Such a technique might apply if you figure out a method to pull/push your handcar(s) if coupled to freight.  That is, I don't think you want a consist with multiple couplers repeatedly hitting bumpers.

GRJ, 

When you highlighted that you used an old power chassis, are you referring to a Lionel air whistle tender with a pullmor motor, or a four wheel timken truck from a train chassis that has a pick-up roller? Don't mind me, I'm trying to get the gist of everything.

I also like the MTH modification using the magnet.

I need to learn how to become skilled in electric and electronic circuits, because there’s enhancements that make the hobby creative and exciting, and Dallee's website is remarkable. 

Lionel8 posted:

GRJ, 

When you highlighted that you used an old power chassis, are you referring to a Lionel air whistle tender with a pullmor motor, or a four wheel timken truck from a train chassis that has a pick-up roller? Don't mind me, I'm trying to get the gist of everything.

No, the clown handcar has the K-Line power chassis, and I used an identical one from a scrapped K-Line unit for under the wagon.  I have a tether for power and motor from the powered handcar to the unpowered chassis.  As you can see, I have four pickup rollers and seven wheels picking up track power (I discount the one with the traction tire on the powered unit). I just take took the motor out of the unpowered one and the wheels roll free.

The crates on the wagon has all the electronics for the TMCC control, the sound module, and of course the four color changing LED's along the side of the crate.

The speaker is a little speaker with enclosure that I rescued from a dead laptop.  It's amazing the volume they can coax out of a tiny speaker in laptops, the audio engineering must be fairly significant.  The speaker enclosure is only 1.25" x .75" x .5", and it's nicely loud, even inside the box.

In another little twist, my custom sound module has inputs for four sound triggers.  Since I have no couplers, I can trigger a couple with the coupler outputs from the TMCC board, they're opto-isolated from the rest of the circuit.  The other two input triggers are simply switch closures to ground.

The arrows point to two reed switches placed under the wagon, these are tied to the extra sound channels on the sound module.  I can place a magnet anywhere along the track and trigger a custom sound at that point as the handcar comes by.

Here's the sound board that's used in this car, it's one I designed and built.  I piggyback a commercial MP3 sound player on my control and power supply electronics, the whole package is very compact and fits most anywhere.

This is the circuit on my add-on motherboard, the player perched on top is the BY8001-16P MP3 player module.

More than you ever wanted to know I'm sure.

What is the motor part number used in that K-Line powered truck? 

Needless to say, converting to command-control in itself does not add to motive power or so-called "drawbar pull".

For example, a common motor type used in 4-wheel trucks is the Mabuchi 365 rated for up to 35 Watts.  There's a lot of tedious calculations to convert electrical Watts to mechanical horsepower.  But if the end objective is to pull the freight cars, it seems knowing the available motor power in those handcar powered trucks might be handy to know.

Lionel8 posted:

......Otherwise I found another online video that uses a trailer modification for reversing a handcar, along with corresponding article containing instructions from another site.                                                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsiTdbncAUg                                                                  Instructions:  http://ctt.trains.com/~/media/.../lionel_handcar.ashx

Hi Lionel8,

I am the author of that video and article above in your post.  This might be what you'd like (just uploaded it):

Take care, Joe.

stan2004 posted:

What is the motor part number used in that K-Line powered truck? 

Needless to say, converting to command-control in itself does not add to motive power or so-called "drawbar pull".

For example, a common motor type used in 4-wheel trucks is the Mabuchi 365 rated for up to 35 Watts.  There's a lot of tedious calculations to convert electrical Watts to mechanical horsepower.  But if the end objective is to pull the freight cars, it seems knowing the available motor power in those handcar powered trucks might be handy to know.

Stan, I have no idea what the part number is, it was from an old scrapped handcar.  I realize that command doesn't add to pulling power, but all I'm pulling is the little wagon with the electronics, so it's not a strain.

The motor in these is the the same type motor as in the K-Line Porter and K-Line Plymouth switcher, and it's pretty tiny.

The only difference is the handcars only have one set of powered wheels, so one side doesn't have the worm extension.

Right.  Where I was going is even if it were possible to make a handcar MU consist, as suggested by others it's not clear there's enough pulling power for a freight load.  I opened my MTH Santa handcar and it uses a Mabuchi FK-130SH DC can motor.  It appears this might even be the same DC motor shown about halfway thru Joe's video.

So back to the original task.  Suppose one could install a motorized truck that has a more powerful DC can motor like the RS-365 (as used in MTH single-motor trolleys) into a freight car.  I confirmed your observation about removing the DC motor from the handcar.  Doing so allows the wheels to spin freely...and the seesaw pumping mechanism will indeed operate as the handcar rolls down the track.  So it would give the illusion that the handcar is doing the work.  I don't know how easy it would be to retrofit a coupler between the handcar and the freight cars.  But the force on the handcar's coupler is drastically reduced if the motive power is from a freight car.

I think it would be a piece of cake to just put a dummy coupler on the handcar rear, something like all the ones I get with Lionel steam for MU configurations.  They're really short, and you could easy craft a mount for it.  It doesn't need to have any load bearing capability, it just has to push the handcar along, they're very light.

Hi Folks,

Here is how I added a coupler to the Lionel handcar:

http://www.josephrampolla.com/coupler.html

And here is how I used a Beep as a "helper locomotive" with one of my Snoopy handcars:

I have used several techniques with Lionel handcars.  I love the handcars!!!!!

Take care, Joe.

P.S. With the Lionel handcars, the figures do place a load on the mechanism where it may not roll freely, so I leave the handcar motor in place.  J

Joe, after adding the coupler to the handcar, did you ever experiment with how many cars just the handcar could pull?

One, maybe two?

stan2004 posted:

Joe, after adding the coupler to the handcar, did you ever experiment with how many cars just the handcar could pull?

Hi Stan and Everyone,

By itself, about one and a half, so 3 trucks worth before (I feel) it is too much of a load.  The handcar motor is the same as the one in the die-cast K-Line Porter, same motor specs, just dual shaft and worms, but that loco's motor is woefully undersized. 

With enough weight over the handcar drive wheels, it will pull rather well.  I use red 'n tacky grease on the handcar gears, which is critical, I think.  I have an abundance of handcar vids on my channel; all kinds of options.

Hope this helps!  Joe.

There must be collusion with everyone using that FK-130SH motor!  It's clear to me that Joe's proven approach of using a helper motor is the solution to the OP's application.

This also lines up with some back-of-envelope calculations of the FK-130SH power output relative to other O-gauge DC motors I've seen in smaller engines/trolleys/subways.

Thanks to Joe for sharing his wealth of experience.

When you could buy a Beep for approx. $50, it was a good value and great to team up the handcar, especially with it's e-unit.  The beep runs at about the same speed as the handcar, and the Beep's e-unit handles the 3 motors in total.  I made the boxcar shell a little too large for a good visual.  I intend to make another shell that resembles a gondola with a load, a lower profile and less visual bulk.  Bottom line: handcars are great fun!  Wish Lionel would consider the value they offer a manufacturer in attracting non-train people into the 3 rail hobby (with tubular track), especially at Christmas.  I've seen it every time, people just smile and ask where they can buy one! 

When I worked for the now defunct Bon-Ton (department store chain), I set up a little thing for a community 2 day even over my counter, and I could have sold several handcars if the store carried them, or any Lionel set:

Does anyone have a complete collection of handcars? There is like 30 or more different ones? Is Bugs Bunny and Daffy still considered the scarcest?

Chuck Sartor posted:

Does anyone have a complete collection of handcars? There is like 30 or more different ones? Is Bugs Bunny and Daffy still considered the scarcest?

Here's a pretty good TCA e-Train article written by Bob Mintz.  It looks like he most recently updated it Spring of 2017, so it's probably very close to up to date.  If I count right, it looks like maybe 39 O Gauge ones shown.  The ones that came on another piece of rolling stock, sometimes within a starter set (most listed at bottom of article) add up.

Bugs and Daffy I believe is down a bit from when it was one of the most sought ones in the late 90's.  Still not a cheapie, but I think I've seen them a few times listed for around $100, or maybe even a little less (pretty sure they used to regularly sell for around $150).

I think Buzz and Woody are more popular now.  They seem to routinely sell somewhere slightly north of $100, maybe sometimes $120-$130 (while I've seen listings for closer to $150, I'm not sure they regularly sell at that point).

-Dave

I keep a couple of the Porter/Plymouth motors in stock as I've seen a bunch of these come in with dead motors.  Obviously, people try to pull at least two or three cars with them, and that's too much.

I picked up a couple of these power trucks from the recent Lionel parts sale:

I hope to use them in as "helper locomotive" pushing a gutted Porter (provided the Porter will roll when pushed and its wheels stay in quarter) or a handcar.  They'll need a body, and I prefer the "shorty" look, like Lionel's shorty line:

That's the power truck that's under my Wienermobile.

Thanks for the link Dave, interesting article.

I'm very impressed with the innovation that everyone has contributed. Regarding the Alexa voice command, is it possible to use my iPad mini using Siri without the Echo puck squawk box? Is there anything less expensive to use for activation?

Lionel8 posted:

I'm very impressed with the innovation that everyone has contributed. Regarding the Alexa voice command, is it possible to use my iPad mini using Siri without the Echo puck squawk box? Is there anything less expensive to use for activation?

Actually, the Echo, Sonoff, and free Alexa routines are the least expensive of all the "smart" options.  Siri compatible systems are more complicated to set up and costly.  (You can mute the "squawk puck.")

Joe,

What I find most impressive is that you have constructed a means to control the trains and including accessories without Lionel’s TMCC or Bluetooth Legacy. Which leads to think if there is a DIY to make your own bluetooth system for conventional trains, using a CAB 1. Unless using Bluetooth is not efficient, or gawky to operate or to pair from track to a “controller tablet.”

Essentially if a dimmer switch raises or lowers the intensity of a light bulb, can a Bluetooth receiver be attached to operate the power to the track as you had using the track Lock-On? I don’t mean to sidetrack but meaning I have found that the CAB 1 can be a nuisance to control.

When you said: "Muting the squawk puck,"  does that mean the Alexa cannot hear the vocal commands to stop and go? 

How does the free Alexa work?

Hi Lionel8,

You can completely mute the Alexa/Echo speaker by just plugging in a jack cut off of old cheap earbuds or buy an an audio 3.5 mm jack (if you cut off a jack from something, just be sure the cut wire ends aren't shorted):

You are not muting the microphone(s), just the speaker.

(And if you are concerned about an internet-enabled microphone in your home, just unplug the Echo from the wall socket when you're not using it.  Mine is only powered up when I want to use it.)

I made my own Bluetooth controller here:

http://www.josephrampolla.com/PicAxeBluetooth.html

but it is bulky and not a project for a beginner.

Now you're getting into very controversial territory regarding dimmers.  You can buy dimmers designed just for transformers/magnetic loads.

https://amzn.to/2rmrV19

I have this one and use it with a pure sine-wave 20VAC wall wart.   The output is a chopped waveform but free of a DC offset like conventional dimmers.   There might be a "smart" version for the Echo.  I wouldn't recommend using a dimmer with a transformer if you are new to electronics or may have kids and adults around who like to break all the rules.

BTW, I use "computer" as the wake-word, so you don't have to say "Alexa."

The free Alexa app allows you to easily write routines:

Hope this helps!

Take care, Joe.

Joe,

I'm amazed with the innovation that you employed using the handcar's.

In the Charlie, Snoopy handcar, it's AC powered?  And is it the rectifier that makes the control on par of DC motive action. Meaning, is the circuitry in the trailing ore car configured for AC motors?

I suppose that the Blue Tooth configuration would also permit for music to be synced with the handcars action?

Lionel8 posted:

In the Charlie, Snoopy handcar, it's AC powered?  And is it the rectifier that makes the control on par of DC motive action. Meaning, is the circuitry in the trailing ore car configured for AC motors?

I suppose that the Blue Tooth configuration would also permit for music to be synced with the handcars action?

Hi Lionel8,

The Snoopy handcar was manufactured with a full-wave bridge rectifier, so it will run on AC and DC.  If you remove the rectifier, it would be for DC only but run in reverse when DC track polarity is reversed.  If you use a Lionel electronic e-unit, it also will operate on both AC and DC.  So in its original state or modified with an e-unit, it runs on both AC and DC.  My homemade Bluetooth handcar is for AC or DC on the rails, up to 20 volts.

BlueRail Trains,  http://bluerailtrains.com/ , made a Bluetooth LE board that has an app with a music/sync feature.  Presently, BlueRail does not have any boards for sale on their site.  You could try a hobby shop or eBay.  (The BlueRail board was for HO locomotives, but the handcar's motor is approx. 0.4 amps, so it is within the current limits of the 1 amp BlueRail board.)  DC would need to be on the track.

Hope this helps!

Take care, Joe.

If you by-pass the rectifier in the handcar, you can use any commercial HO automatic reverse circuit for back and forth operation.