How to void the warranty on your brand new Legacy steam locomotive in one step, swap the motor.

Good idea, with the number of those Canon motors I've personally seen die, having a real motor in there will give you peace of mind.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Good idea, with the number of those Canon motors I've personally seen die, having a real motor in there will give you peace of mind.

I figured while checking the smoke units I might as well eliminate the main drive train failure point. Plus get more torque in the process. Spinning the Pittman and Canon by hand back to back the Pittman spins noticeably smoother. There's really no comparison between the two.

Hmmm....fix the paint, fix the couplers, fix the drive rods, change the motor.... Someone, please tell me what the point of buying new is??.....oh wait, thats right....voice control

On the bright side Lou. The motor is now one less failure item for Lionel to repair under warranty

@RickO posted:

Hmmm....fix the paint, fix the couplers, fix the drive rods, change the motor.... Someone, please tell me whet the point of buying new is??.....oh wait, thats right....voice control

On the bright side Lou. The motor is now one less failure item for Lionel to repair under warranty

Well I got this cheaper than buying the TMCC version and adding a CC-M and 4 chuffs, so I went with it.

Modifying/building locomotives doesn't bother me. Most of my fleet has been built/wired by me. But expecting the average hobbiest to do what I, and others far better than me (@harmonyards, @Norton), do to locomotives is a stretch. Granted a brand new Pittman from Haydenkirk-Pittman is probably cost prohibitive for manufacturers but there are some decent Pittman copies (SPG makes one) that are reasonably priced, and better than a Canon motor.

@RickO posted:

Hmmm....fix the paint, fix the couplers, fix the drive rods, change the motor.... Someone, please tell me what the point of buying new is??.....oh wait, thats right....voice control

With all the complaining about Lionel, I think you should never buy another Lionel product.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

With all the complaining about Lionel, I think you should never buy another Lionel product.

Speaking of complaints LOL!:

"Good idea, with the number of those Canon motors I've personally seen die, having a real motor in there will give you peace of mind"

My apologies John. I'll try harder to think happy thoughts

The older stuff has been great for me though

Back on topic, Lou's motor swap idea is good one.

But....that big stack....., thats somethin' only an ATSF fan could love.

This makes me wonder if I should have the motor changed out on the one Canon powered loco I own, before Lou and Pat use up all of the extra Pittmans.

@RickO posted:

Speaking of complaints LOL!:

"Good idea, with the number of those Canon motors I've personally seen die, having a real motor in there will give you peace of mind"

My apologies John. I'll try harder to think happy thoughts

The older stuff has been great for me though

Back on topic, Lou's motor swap idea is good one.

But....that big stack....., thats somethin' only an ATSF fan could love.

This makes me wonder if I should have the motor changed out on the one Canon powered loco I own, before Lou and Pat use up all of the extra Pittmans.

Ask Lou where he got the Pittman,....😉

Pat

I haven't had an issue with Lionel's electronics, just like I haven't had issues with MTH's electronics. I buy models of ATSF steam no matter who makes them. Lionel's only ATSF specific steam model is the 3751 class Northern. MTH made more (3460 class Hudsons, 2900 class Northerns, 5011 class Texans) so I own more MTH models. Only thing that concerns me on the Lionel model going forward is the multi gear gearbox. I opened it and oiled all the gearshafts in the gearbox with 30 weight Mobil 1 while I was in the locomotive, as well as replacing the Lionel grease with Mobil 1 grease. From the factory there was just a big blob of white/clear grease on the worm and nothing else. Poor lubrication job in my opinion. I also swapped in the Pittman so I can hopefully get equivalent pulling power to my Premier steam.

What's the matter Rick, not a fan of the stack extensions? Best ATSF feature 😉

@harmonyards posted:

Ask Lou where he got the Pittman,....😉

Pat

I was sworn to secrecy.

What's the matter Rick, not a fan of the stack extensions? Best ATSF feature 😉

thats only a face a mother could love,....

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

What's the matter Rick, not a fan of the stack extensions? Best ATSF feature 😉

thats only a face a mother could love,....

Pat

I believe the correct answer for "a face only a mother could love" for 4-8-4s applies to Alco products, like the Niagara and FEF. Smoosh face smokebox fronts and goofy elephant ear smoke deflectors will do that. Nothing like the elegant ATSF stack extension.

I have a FEF. It's ugly compared to an ATSF Northern.

I should note the best of all was Lima on the SP GS class.

Also, before we ruin this thread, @RickO, what Legacy locomotive do you have with a Canon motor? If there is a TMCC equivalent the easy way to figure out what size Pittman (9433 or 9434) fits it is to look up the parts list for the TMCC version. Whichever Pittman the TMCC version used should fit the Legacy version.

So far it's been verified that the 12V 9433/9434 works fine with Legacy electronics. I'm pretty sure a 15.1V version of either motor should work just as well. Lionel still has some 9433 and 9434 Pittmans in stock, FYI.

The  Legacy ESE hudson Lou. I believe Pat already did a motor swap on one of these as well. He may have had to engineer a mounting plate if I recall correctly.

He'll be chiming in shortly .

@RickO posted:

The  Legacy ESE hudson Lou. I believe Pat already did a motor swap on one of these as well. He may have had to engineer a mounting plate if I recall correctly.

He'll be chiming in shortly .

I had to countersink the holes on the encoder board that mounts to the motor/motor mount,...and that was just so the flywheel would have the proper set back for the encoder ring to be in the sensor,......other than that, a cake walk,...Lou’s is the latest incarnation,  our ESE’s are a little older Rick, .....I’d like to see if Lou took pictures of the process like I did on the ESE,...that would be nice to compare notes,....

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

I had to countersink the holes on the encoder board that mounts to the motor/motor mount,...and that was just so the flywheel would have the proper set back for the encoder ring to be in the sensor,......other than that, a cake walk,...Lou’s is the latest incarnation,  our ESE’s are a little older Rick, .....I’d like to see if Lou took pictures of the process like I did on the ESE,...that would be nice to compare notes,....

Pat

Setup was exactly like your ESE, encoder board and all. I set the flywheel back exactly where the factory had it and there was 2mm of clearance between the flywheel and 6/32 screws that held the Pittman. That's plenty in my book so I didn't bother modifying the encoder board. I didn't take pictures because I felt you had it covered pretty well in your post about the ESE, which I linked to in my original post.

Only wiring difference was no wires off the motor for the ashpan/firebox glow. The Northern is oil fired so those wires weren't present.

@Lou1985 posted:

Setup was exactly like your ESE, encoder board and all. I set the flywheel back exactly where the factory had it and there was 2mm of clearance between the flywheel and 6/32 screws that held the Pittman. That's plenty in my book so I didn't bother modifying the encoder board. I didn't take pictures because I felt you had it covered pretty well in your post about the ESE, which I linked to in my original post.

Only wiring difference was no wires off the motor for the ashpan/firebox glow. The Northern is oil fired so those wires weren't present.

I opted out for the more real estate the better option, ......a quick touch with a bit got the mounting screws far, far away from the ring,....was yours a little tighter than this pic?....also, a slight difference in the 6-32 screw vendor’s make could have been the difference between what I had to do and what you did, ,....nonetheless the results were the same, ....job done,...

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

I opted out for the more real estate the better option, ......a quick touch with a bit got the mounting screws far, far away from the ring,....was yours a little tighter than this pic?....also, a slight difference in the 6-32 screw vendor’s make could have been the difference between what I had to do and what you did, ,....nonetheless the results were the same, ....job done,...

Pat

The encoder ring is a hair tighter than that on the Northern. I think a lot comes down to the screw vendor. I used 6/32 screws from Ace out of one of the screw draws. They were stainless but I have no idea who made them.