I am new to forum, so many questions, thought I would start with this...can you help me identify the logo on this cap?

It has a Teamster's local 120 logo on it.  That and the wording would narrow it down to the trucking industry.

Rusty

Rusty!  You are a hero!  Thanks so much, I now have a new path into a rabbit hole, searching out the trucking company.  I will get right on it!  

And She's Off!!!

Melanie

@Rusty Traque posted:

It has a Teamster's local 120 logo on it.  That and the wording would narrow it down to the trucking industry.

Rusty

Not so fast. That is the pin. How do you know the pin and the hat originally went together? Could have been a teamster who pinned a button to a hat from something else. I am trying to track down the actual Indian head logo.

Looks like Pontiac.

That looks like the "hiawatha" symbol I think I have seen on Milwaukee road Passenger trains.

Glad that's resolved. Now on to the trains. I'm sure I'm not the only one! Lol 

Rusty Traque, I've been poking around on the Internet and haven't yet found any trucking company with a logo anything like that one.

John H, Hey, I left Buffalo on an extended vacation to Anaheim CA to visit west coast family - got caught in the Covid hornets nest here, don't know when it will be safe for me to return...likely the dead of winter!  Where are you in WNY?  As far as Pontiac, the only heads I found have what appears like a mohawk and flying pony tail...this guy doesn't look so much like that, unless there are others I haven't found.  Posted an internet image of Pontiac.

PRRJim,  I looked through all the images I could find on Hiawatha and only found the sort of leaping guy logo.  Not sure if there's another.  Posted an internet image of Hiawatha.

Thanks so much for your generous help!

Ron464nyc,  Sorry if my topic offended, hope you'll give me a pass, since I am new and not all that savvy about what topics I should and shouldn't post.

Melanie

I know I've seen it, exactly.  But I live near Pontiac and Wyandotte and used to be at Hiawatha National Forest on top of the train stuff. Hmmm.

My initial thought however was an Airflow style moving truck 30s-40s before I saw the horse heads

Someone will know if that is the Railroad logo... and soon.

If not check Detroit area history it might even be local here.

Might be a bus service, delivery, moving. Maybe appliances?

Teamster records?

Melanie, You're bound to offend some folk by living sometimes

You're alright, thick skin on ok? 

Thank you Adriatic!  More than anything I've just needed directions to search...I was out of options until I was fortunate enough to find this forum and start this post.  Everyone has been so generous with their time and ideas, I am really thankful!  I was to the point of turning the cap into a frisbee! 

Melanie 

Adriatic, Aye Aye Sir! (imagine a saluting emoticon!)  Suiting up with thick skin! Melanie

Hi Melanie, 

I'm thinking of that hat with its logo, maybe Indian Motorcycles?

Hi Penn-Pacific, Wow!  I want that to be right, it would be a great cap to throw on to hide helmet hair!  Sadly, all the Indian logos I found just now (after feverishly digging through all the google images) show the Indian head in a circle, most facing that same way, but with a big huge feather head-dress.

Thanks so much, I appreciate a new path to chase down...very exciting, indeed!  Melanie

@Will posted:

Not so fast. That is the pin. How do you know the pin and the hat originally went together? Could have been a teamster who pinned a button to a hat from something else. I am trying to track down the actual Indian head logo.

Of course there could be no relationship between the pin and the hat, but as the philosopher once said:

"Ya gotta start somewhere."

Rusty

FYI,,,,,,,Local 120 is in the St.Paul area. 

I searched a lot on Google. No luck. It doesn't match any Indian motorcycle logo that I found. Not close.

Indian logos used to be on hundreds of things, from high schools to small local companies. I would definitely research the St. Paul area. Is there an historical association in ST. Paul you could send the photo to? Looks like it might be a bus driver's hat or it may indeed be a teamster hat for a local trucking  company.

May I suggest that if you are liquidating an estate sale for someone, does it really matter what logo this is? I doubt it will affect the value one way or another. I think you want it to be significant, which is why you jumped at Indian Motorcycles, but it's highly unlikely it is or an internet search would find it.

@clem k posted:

FYI,,,,,,,Local 120 is in the St.Paul area. 

LOL. I knew that. Local 120 and St. Paul are both on the pin she posted. 

I would say it is a baggage handlers hat as they were that color and style.

@Melanie Thompson posted:

 

Ron464nyc,  Sorry if my topic offended, hope you'll give me a pass, since I am new and not all that savvy about what topics I should and shouldn't post.

Melanie

No worries. We are happy to help. I think Ron's point is we are train guys not hat historians. We are taking wild guesses on the hat, but if you post some train pics, you'll get much better intel. 

Try A local Teamster local in person.

It IS a train hat until proved otherwise 😬  

It is of interest to model FOR train layouts if not

Cool is cool 😎

Um... is it a Native American at all?.... or Mercury or other "god". A woman? Ear or earring?

Sorry, but I don't see anything train related here. Is this new member a train guy or not?

 The hat won't be forgotten. Throw the dogs a bone

A broad overview group shot, *fav.  of yours* , etc.. 

Contribute

What's on the brass buttons. It may not be a generic button.

@eddie g posted:

Sorry, but I don't see anything train related here. Is this new member a train guy or not?

Probably not. Her name is Melanie. I think she might not be a guy.

@Melanie Thompson posted:

Hi There.  I have been tasked with liquidating a storage unit full of train stuff for an estate seller, most of it O Scale.  I've managed to identify a bunch of stuff on my own and have left the more challenging things until the end.  I joined the forum in hopes that I might find a bit of assistance identifying some things. 

This, my first example, isn't "O Scale" but maybe someone will recognize the emblem / logo on the cap.  There are "R" pin style buttons on each side of the brim.  Maybe it's not train, maybe bus line?  This cap was in one of over 500 boxes in the locker and all but a few things were train items.  There are no identifying marks inside the cap

I'm a newbie, so if this request doesn't pass muster, please let me know.

Thanks, Melanie

Melanie, I was looking at the 'R' buttons on the side of the cap.  I don't think anyone has addressed them, though I could have missed it.  Could you provide us with another photograph that shows the 'R" button straight on.  There appears to be a flair in the middle of the 'R'.  Maybe that could be another clue.  I certainly have no idea, other than the ideas already presented.  I agree, the logo on the front could be a Native American or it could be some god, Mercury, or something altogether different.

Please don't hesitate to post questions about other items.  As you have already guessed, we love to try to identify old things.  When you get to the trains, you will get mostly definitive answers right off.

After some research, looks to me it is a MLK Road, baggage handlers hat.  The problem is, no MLK employees were Teamsters in 1949. Possibly, the original owner worked for MLK-R, and then before or after became a Teamster.  The big trucking companies of that era had their drivers wear uniforms and hats.

Nothing like a good mystery'...

Another possible scenario, The emblem resembles Mercury autos.  Could be a delivery driver of new Mercurys to their dealerships.... The pin is for a drivers helpers.  That could signify a multitude of transport companies.  But it had to be a top company if their employees were Teamsters'...

Mark Boyce, Attached a close up on the R Button.  

Ted Quarter Gauger...I am going to jump down the rabbit hole in search of the MLK Road Baggage Hat reference, then come up for air and jump down the Mercury Auto transport reference.

Will, Thank you for defending my honor, I am a female.  I was instructed by Adriatic to grow some thick skin, so I'm working on it.  Will and Clem, I have spent quite a few hours searching for the St Paul reference, and some connection to Teamsters, but no luck.  It is hard for me to just throw the thing in the trash or donate it to Salvation Army unless I gave it my best shot at finding the right home for it.  Otherwise its just a ratty old cap with a 1948 teamster pins on it!

Those of you who have welcomed me and try to help I really appreciate it.

I only have 10 tons of old trains cars and train accessories that we left for last, too overwhelming for a newbie to tackle until we liquidated the lion's share of this (which we have for the most part).  There is a ridiculous amount of track too.  I will try to keep my questions down to a dull roar, but I am hopeful some of you will still be willing to help.  (They will be more train related).

Melanie

Melanie, I thought the 'R' had a special flair.  So the logo on the front and the fancy 'R' go together I think.  The teamsters button is an add-on much like my dad pinned his FTWP and later CWA pins on his ball caps he wore to work.  I now have several of them.  That isn't to say the hat wasn't for a trucking firm.  The owner of the trains could have been a trucker and the hat got thrown in with the trains.  Someone else will have to shed light on any of those theories.

What is MLK Road? Googling only turns up Martin Luther King, as you would imagine.

@Rusty Traque posted:

It has a Teamster's local 120 logo on it.  That and the wording would narrow it down to the trucking industry.

@Will posted:

Not so fast. That is the pin. How do you know the pin and the hat originally went together? Could have been a teamster who pinned a button to a hat from something else.

My 2 cents... Isn't the pin's "AF of L" the American Federation of Labor Union or AFL not necessarily the IBT or Teamsters?  The 1949 date corresponds to when the AFL was still not yet merged with the Committee for Industrial Organization or CIO.  IIRC the AFL was active in early IBT union organization many years before the AFL-CIO merged in 1955.  Strange that the Teamster logo design is also on the pin.  Maybe the pin was given during a joint AFL and Teamster union event.

Perhaps a railroad “Red Cap” uniform hat. Red Caps were unionized under various unions. 
Is there a maker’s label inside, perhaps under the sweat band?

Tom

Hi Tom, Brilliant!  I didn't even realize the thick leather sweatband would lift, thought it was stitched down top and bottom!  I found "United Hatters Cap & Millenery "  on a tag inside.  After searching eBay and all over the Internet, I found nothing close to this, but the history of the maker was really interesting.  Thanks very much!

Melanie

Still following up on Mark, Will and Keystone's posts.

Thanks so much!

Your welcome, Melanie.

There are so many styles of hats that were used by Red Caps. It would be interesting to be able to nail it down, as to the origin. I am guessing late 1930’s through the early 1950’s.

BTW, I grew up in Hamburg, NY and ended up on an extended vacation in NJ for the last 36 years...lol

Tom

@eddie g posted:

Sorry, but I don't see anything train related here. Is this new member a train guy or not?

I have found this topic more interesting than the ones you guys fighting about York all the time....

Krieglok, Hamburg is a beautiful town with a terrific train and town show every year at the Erie County Fairgrounds!  Lots to love about that place, not just that wonderful Taste Of Hamburg-er Extravaganza.  Likely not as much snow where you moved! 

I'm going to give this darned hat exactly 48 hours and then I am going to stick it back in the locker - drag it back out for the facebook marketplace "by invitation only" buy it by the box sale we'll have with all the stuff we can't stand looking at anymore.  I haven't given up on it yet, but I am getting closer to that!

Melanie

Thank you Jim!  Adriatic instructed me to grow thick skin, I've got callouses growing!

Melanie

Welcome and good luck with the hat research, hopefully someone will be able to get to bottom of it. How are you going about liquidating the trains and track? Generally, which era of trains were inside the locker? Prewar (WWII)? Postwar (WWII)? 70s/80s? 90s? 2000- present?  

Hey Jim, it's definitely more interesting than counting down the days to York. Welcome to the Forum Melanie.

Melanie, you might be able to get an answer from the American Truck Historical Society.  They are devoted to the history of commercial trucking, and have some very knowledgable folks.

Be sure to send them all the photos, including the Teamsters St. Paul local button.  My hunch is that the cap is from a Minnesota trucking company.  You can email the American Truck Historical Society at:

info@aths.org

Ive been thinking rhe St Paul area might be a better area to look at.

I also looked at some vintage advertising cut art books with no luck so far. But also that the hat or logo would be appropriate for other deliveries such as florists too.  I chose a few with Native Àmerican representation, but don't overlook the the fuzzy Mercury as food for thought.  À red cap or vest definitely implies a service and could even be strictly for RR delivery by company X.   

 These are approved logos for book owner ad creations in 1939.(see"keyline")

I think Pontiac is closest so far.

Could this be a aviation logo? Looks to me it has a moon in background so maybe a overnight route?

The buttons on the side of the front band might give a clue I thought it might be Indian Motorcycles because it looks like an old time motorcycle cap but local freight delivery is probably closer, part of a daily uniform? That could be why it was saved. Remembering a mans labor. 

Since my last post, I have gone as far as I can on all of your leads.  My last shot was sending a note to the American Truck Historical Society (Thank you, Tom Number 90).  After that, I shall toss this thing in the Goodwill donation box so it is out of my sight.  So odd that after the tonnage of items we have either listed on eBay, posted on Facebook Marketplace, or handed back to the estate seller to give to his favorite swapmeet seller, this was a thing that I felt needed scrutiny.  Insanity on my part!  If this lead runs dry, it's buy-bye cap!  Thank you so much, every single one of you.  My next posts will be completely amateur train questions which will likely get me snarls, maybe get me tossed out!

Oh JD, (JD2035RR) about liquidating track.  Geewhiz, thus far the track has been the bain of my existance.  There really are hundreds of pounds of it in various sizes and configurations, from many eras (based entirely on the degree of dust and oxidation I see)...some sparkly clean, some that look like I should get a tetanus booster before I dive into it!  I am dipping my toe into it by listing some Gargraves track in original boxes.  The first 3 boxes are pretty straight forward, the next box has me confused.  I am going to post a question about it on a different thread, I'm a bit apprehensive about posting what will certainly be the first of many juvenile questions asked in a group such as this, but Adriatic convinced me to grow thick skin, so I am ready!

Don't worry about your questions.  If you state you are new to the trains, no one has any business writing a derogatory comment.  If someone does, we will call him out on it.

Not Goodwill. It may get tossed out quick if the shelves are full, etc.  Free on CL, auction it, give it to a kid who seems mindful , etc.

It is still very cool.