I am wondering if a LGB 1/29 Scale HUDSON would Look OK Hauling the MTH LIONEL STATE CARS

Then you should buy the items and experiment.

The Lionel Blue Comet and State cars were first built in the 1920s and 1930s as toys, not scale models, so I doubt they will be calculated as any specific scale. While they were state-of-the-art back then, bottom line they were/are toys made to sell at a price-point and handle 42-inch curves.

The LGB/Aster Hudson is a LARGE precision scale model and would not really match up well with the no particular scale tinplate Lionel state cars.

I think it would be an amazing train, yes sir, go for it. You only live once. Happy Railroading Everyone   (3 rail tinplate cars may be an issue on 2 rail DC power???)

I wonder if the cars have solid axles?

Are you running the LGB on a DC track powered layout? or DCC?

@leapinlarry posted:

I think it would be an amazing train, yes sir, go for it. You only live once. Happy Railroading Everyone   (3 rail tinplate cars may be an issue on 2 rail DC power???)

Leapin' Larry brings up a good point. As long as the trucks are replaced with 2-rail-compatible trucks, you should be good to go. Bottom line, if you think it would look good, then go for it. Lionel did a similar thing in the 30s with the 763e Hudson: they mated it with the tinplate 2600-series passenger cars and it is a beautiful train.

@BlueComet400 posted:

Leapin' Larry brings up a good point. As long as the trucks are replaced with 2-rail-compatible trucks, you should be good to go. Bottom line, if you think it would look good, then go for it. Lionel did a similar thing in the 30s with the 763e Hudson: they mated it with the tinplate 2600-series passenger cars and it is a beautiful train.

I was just going to mention this.  I have the mth version that came with a tinplate Vanderbuilt style tender and of course use it to pull tinplate hoppers It looks great.  I would think if the general look is aesthetically pleasing to you than go for it.  If you are running powered 2 rail track then obviously you would have to deal with the electrical end to prevent shorts and get power to the lights, but I suspect you already thought about that.

Good luck with your project

If you are talking about the LGB/Aster Hudson, it is way larger than 1:29.

A friend bought that Hudson. I would guess it is close to 1:24. That thing is huge. It might look okay pulling LGB American cars, passenger and freight.

@OGRNorman, I agree with @TM Terry 's post above. At 1/24  scale, the LGB/Aster Hudson is a bit too big for the train if that's really a concern.

This may or may not help, but here's a picture of Lionel's Commodore Vanderbilt Hudson pulling a train of State cars -

Overall, it looks pretty good, but the engine is actually a little small for the cars. From the perspective of size, it would be better suited to the Blue Comet cars on the inner track. Of course, the 400E Blue Comet locomotive is really too big for its cars and is better sized to the State cars. Go figure . . .

Height and width wise, the State cars are actually better matched to my USA Trains 1/29 scale Hudson. Unfortunately, I haven't got a picture to share at this time.

Cheers,

- Mike

The LGB/Aster Hudson as listed in the 2000 LGB catalog is 1,012mm or 39.843 inches long. That is over 3 feet! Huge, indeed!

Anyone have a photo or three of the LGB Hudson to post?

The "LGB" Hudson is essentially the electric version of the Aster Hudson so any photos of it would suffice.

@c.sam posted:

Anyone have a photo or three of the LGB Hudson to post?

From YouTube:

Rusty

Here is a photo of the LGB/Aster loco with its beautiful custom crafted wood case and a reference inch ruler:

As can be seen with the reference ruler, this engine is slightly over three feet long.

As Mike C. pointed out above, the USA Trains 1:29 Hudson would be a better fit.

I remember years ago that Aster made a couple of Hudsons - one electric, the other in live steam. I've got the USA Trains 1:29 scale model of #5344 that is DC. Also came in a good sturdy wooden box. The level of detail is amazing. Is mine the same model as the Aster?

How did LGB get their name attached here?

@Engineer-Joe posted:

I wonder if the cars have solid axles?

Are you running the LGB on a DC track powered layout? or DCC?

To answer your question: the Standard Gauge cars did not have wheels that were press fit onto the axles. Ergo, the tin plate wheels rotated on the axles and occasionally required lubricating. The axle was/is a solid metal rod.

Steve

I have the MTH-Railking G Gauge J3a Hudson in a display case on my Fireplace Mantel. It's a beautiful model. Never even considered that it could be compatible with a Standard Gauge car. The Astor looks to be a J3a also but the USA model is a J1e. Is the LGB a J1e or a J3a?  I love them all.

c.sam: LGB partnered with Aster to produce several models including the Hudson of 2000 and an earlier live steamer dubbed the "Frank S". The excellent USA Trains 1:29 diecast Hudson had no relation to Aster or LGB.

@NYC Fan, I too have the MTH J3a. It's 1/32nd scale, the correct size for 45mm (Gauge 1 or G Gauge) track. It's also relatively small in comparison to the 1/29th scale USA Trains J1e, and it's overpowered by both the State cars and the 1/29th scale  Aristo-Craft or USA Trains heavyweights.

As with the CV/State combo shown in my post above, it's not a bad look, but it clearly isn't "right." I suspect (but don't know) that Lionel's CV Hudson is or is close to 1/32nd scale also.

Incidentally, a 1/29th model is exactly 3 times the size of a 1/87th (HO) model, which may explain why both Aristo-Craft and USA Trains adopted the size. I discussed this with Lewis Polk of Aristo-Craft some years ago and he pointed out that it made it easy to scale up existing HO plans and or model dimensions for reproduction in G Gauge.

Cheers,

- Mike

The Lionel or MTH state cars look best behind a 400E or 408E to my tinplate eye.

@Tinplate Art -

Agreed!

- Mike

Another note: To the best of my LGB knowledge and the two volume Kompendium, LGB never produced any American heavyweight passenger cars to go behind their Hudson.

@Tinplate Art posted:

The LGB/Aster Hudson as listed in the 2000 LGB catalog is 1,012mm or 39.843 inches long. That is over 3 feet! Huge, indeed!

It's a little late, but just to button up this topic, the coupled length of the USA Trains J1e measures 40.25 inches from the tip of the pilot to the rear of the tender, exclusive of the rear coupler.

- Mike

OMG! That diecast monster must be one HEAVY loco! And larger than 1:29 at 40" long?

My USA Trains weighs over 50#. 

Is this the LGB model below?  The proportions don't look quite right. Is it 'shortened' somewhat?

If co-opted with Aster would think it would be 'scale'

Skip - Have you ever considered displaying yours on Gargraves track?  The typical brass track just doesn't 'fit' with our American prototypes IMO.   I bought some GG many years ago and find it appears to be close to 'scale' size with the larger models. Tie size and spacing is spot on and with a little ballast it looks great. I should weather mine but at mantle height, most don't see it...

Wish I could build a huge layout indoors with GG and run large trains!

c.sam: That is NOT the LGB Hudson in your photo.

Just from my memory, but it seemed as though the LGB/Aster Hudson had a rather short tender. I should call my friend, since it seems no one with an actual LGB/Aster Hudson has seen this thread.

Well @Tinplate Art, since we're still kicking a dead (iron) horse, there's not much difference (.41") between the overall length you reported for the Aster Hudson and what I measured the USA Trains model at. What there is could easily be attributed to modeling adjustments such as coupler length or driver spacing. A real J1e or J3a, for that matter, equipped with a standard 12 wheel tender measured 95 feet 11inches overall. Let's call it 96 feet. In that case, an accurately scaled 1/29th model would measure 39.72 inches. Both of these models are close enough for me.

It looks to me like the engine posted by @c.sam above indeed is a USA model. (It looks to be identical to mine.) I agree that it looks better on GarGraves track than it does on code 335 LGB stuff, but I was not aware that they made it in G Gauge. I use Marklin Gauge 1 track to display mine.

No matter, these are all beautiful models.

- Mike

@CHOO-CHOO MIKE posted:

  That's an Aristo-craft Pacific. The cars have G scale trucks and were picked up at a swap meet for $100 for the 3. They run real smooth.

@c.sam posted:

Skip - Have you ever considered displaying yours on Gargraves track?  The typical brass track just doesn't 'fit' with our American prototypes IMO.   I bought some GG many years ago and find it appears to be close to 'scale' size with the larger models. Tie size and spacing is spot on and with a little ballast it looks great. I should weather mine but at mantle height, most don't see it...

Wish I could build a huge layout indoors with GG and run large trains!

Your display does look great! Certainly an improvement over mine below.

@c.sam, to answer the question you asked in your post above, your USA Hudson is a model of the last J1e, 5344, built for the New York Central. It is not the same as the LGB/Aster Hudson which is a model of the first J3a, 5405.

On the off chance that you don't know, 5344 was streamlined to create the Commodore Vanderbilt Hudson, then re-streamlined to more closely resemble the famed Dreyfuss J3a Hudsons of 20th Century Limited service.

Cheers,

- Mike

@Mike Casatelli posted:

Well @Tinplate Art, since we're still kicking a dead (iron) horse, there's not much difference (.41") between the overall length you reported for the Aster Hudson and what I measured the USA Trains model at.

LGB makes a F7 that would look silly MU'd to a USA F3. The LGB F7 is much higher and wider than the USA F3. I am just guessing, but I would think that the LGB/Aster NYC Hudson J3a would look like a runt on the same layout as their F7 if it were 1:29 scale. The LGB F7 looks like about 1:24 scale.

My friend with the LGB/Aster had put his back in the box, which is 4 feet long. He sent a YouTube video of the locomotive and tender in the wood box. The tender is clearly not a long haul tender. It is relatively short. In other words the LGB/Aster and the USA could be the same length and completely different scales. There is height and width to consider.

To my eye, the LGB F7 does a good job of looking ridiculous all by itself alone. As @TM Terry noted above, the scale of the car body is probably 1:24. Since it sits atop trucks gauged for 1:32nd scale, it has a decidedly ungainly narrow gauge look to it. Depending on your point of view, the variety of scales all running on 45mm track is either the drawback or the glory of G gauge.

As for the two Hudsons, I'll stick with my story. Both of them are equipped with the appropriate 6 axle tenders and based on prototypes that each were 41 feet or so long. The NYC didn't have "long haul tenders" per se until the wartime appearance of the PT series bed tenders with which many Hudsons were eventually equipped. These indeed were substantially longer than the original tenders.

As a matter of interest, in its regular line Aster offered several different sub-classes of Hudsons including the J1e and, I believe, a Michigan Central J1c equipped with a 4 axle tender that measured only 34 feet in length. That said, these were 1:32nd scale (Gauge 1) models. As far as I know, only the J3a was produced for the LGB/Aster G gauge partnership.

- Mike

Also, let me note that if your LGB/Aster NYC Hudson is 1:29 scale, the last freight you want to pull is LGB American freight cars. Those 1:24 scale monsters will dwarf your "little engine that could".

Hi Folks,

Thank you all for the above posts.

Hopefully, someone may yet be able to post an image of

the LGB ASTER Hudson, Tender Image only required,

SIDE VIEW of a LIONEL STATE CAR sitting behind a LGB ASTER Tender

on a table surface as the Track Gauges are obviously different.

Thanks again,

Norman