Lionel Service Center • Has my new locomotive • They sent me a video of my loco on their test track.

Gary,

   I run mine with my CAB2 and have the same problem sometimes, but the horn doesn't blow like yours. Check your pick-up rollers. Mine are very tight and don't roll freely. I think that's the problem and I am going to call Lionel about it on Monday. Maybe we can get @Dave Olson to chime in here.

to chime in.

Brad

Hi Brad: Thanks for the tip. I checked both sets of pickup rollers and the roll freely. This problem is intermittent. It comes and goes. 

Gary

Gary,

  Do you have a Cab 1 or Cab2? If so try a reset.

Brad

Hi Brad:

I only have the Lionel Universal remote. I do a reset by turning off the power supply and wait ten seconds before turning back on. Then it will run for a short time and than stop running.

Gary

Sounds like we have the same issue. I guess the drive wheels would spin if it was just the pick-up rollers and I don't hear them spinning.

@trainroomgary posted:

Need help! This video shows the issue. Have you ever seen this issue?

#1 YES this issue has been seen more times than I can count. In fact- easy to test and reproduce. It's as simple as having too low a volage on the track and commanding a speed the motor cannot reach at that voltage.

Lionchief plus 2.0 and recent Legacy engines share the same control board system (LCP2) and have similar features- one major one being stalled motor detection.

Please tell me you are aware of stalled motor detection, and that running at low voltage or power drops or dips in your track while being run in either command (TMCC/Legacy) or bluetooth can lock out motor control.

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...3#164447381275411583

@Vernon Barry posted:

I tried pulling the manual for your engine (SW8 series) from Lionel support but got document not found.

That's OK because I know for a fact your engine uses the same board set- LCP2 and thus the manual from my SD70MAC is valid as far as this error and cab blinks and motor drive.

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...d-NonPwd%20Units.pdf

Page 44

Locomotive diagnostics

Our locomotive includes built-in diagnostics to monitor the condition of the main drive motor. If a problem is detected, the locomotive's cab light will blink a diagnostic code. If you see the light inside the cab flashing, press RESET (for LEGACY operation), 0 (for TMCC operation), or DIRECTION/power interruption (for conventional operation to attempt to clear the problem. The locomotive will immediately check itself again. If the problem persists, the cab light will blink the code again.

Number of Blinks Diagnostic Code Description

1 Main drive motor stalled.

Here was a similar topic with a recent engine where this safety feaure was discussed https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...7#163461606138314857

Note the end result was the user had less than 18V on the track and thus invoked the low track voltage problem causing motor stall detection to kick in.

Again, in the manual on page 6 of TMCC operation, this key step.

1. Increase track power voltage to full power (no more than 19 volts AC). If a circuit breaker trips when you turn on the Lionel power supply, check the wheels of your locomotive to make sure they are all securely on the track. Check to make sure the track is free of all metals that may cause a short circuit.

Sadly it doesn't warn you of the consequences of what less than full voltage can invoke - stalled motor detection, especially when the motor cannot reach the commanded speed at the current track voltage.

Hi Vernon Barry:

I have 4 mainlines and I have ran this loco on all lines. Every loco on my layout works just fine. I do not think I have any voltage drops.

Thanks for the information. If Lionel gives me a return authorization number and I mail it to Lionel, will they be able to resolve this issue?

Gary 🚂

Hoping you get it fixed.

I was trying to go back and read testing results that were not in the original post. Somehow I missed that while typing  my replies.

Anyway, so you are using universal remote.

It works after a power cycle reset but then can stop again.

You don't have TMCC/Legacy to test with or perform resets.

Have you tried conventional operation?

What is your power source and voltage on the track? Hopefully full 18V.

Have you tried the Lionchief Bluetooth app (with a phone or tablet) to eliminate a possible problem with the universal remote?

Again just trying to eliminate variables before sending back to Lionel and then the waiting.

@Vernon Barry posted:

#1 YES this issue has been seen more times than I can count. In fact- easy to test and reproduce.

Lionchief plus 2.0 and recent Legacy engines share the same control board system (LCP2) and have similar features- one major one being stalled motor detection.

I thought the stalled motor detection was 1 consecutive cab light flash.

I don't recall anything with the horn blasting constantly as an indicator.

In Gary's video. The cab light doesn't even appear to be flashing.

@RickO posted:

I thought the stalled motor detection was 1 consecutive cab light flash.

don't recall anything with the horn blasting constantly as an indicator.

In Gary's video. The cab light doesn't even appear to be flashing.

Reviewing the video again, yeah sure, the cab light does not blink, but the hand was in the way to see the status of the universal remote until this point in the video and I do not see any of the 3 engine buttons showing connection to the engine.

.

Which again, just amplifies the question of trying other control methods like normal conventional, TMCC, or Bluetooth Lionchief App operation (using a phone or tablet) to ensure this is not a communications issue with that universal remote.

Again, turning the knob on a remote that isn't showing connection to the engine- is not generally expected to work.

Just to show it's not that frame in the video, another frame grab showing absolutely none of the 3 engine selection butons are showing connection to the engine.

The idea here is to eliminate variables and determine if the engine is locking up and then losing connection with the remote, or if somehow that universal remote glitched out  (bad firmware, old firmware, low batteries, user error?) vs this specific LC+2.0 engine keeps doing the last command it received.

Other scenarios- again a power glitch where the engine lost power, stopped, disconnected, and is getting a DC horn offfset from the transformer or some other power error. Again, a power loss or glitch could have caused the disconnect from the engine side, and the engine is blowing th horn from also seeing a DC offset while sensing conventional mode since it is disconnected from the remote.

Again, it might be something with the engine, I'm not saying that's impossible, but from one rather short video, I cannot for sure say the engine caused this state (engine stopped, horn blowing, universal remote not connected) if it was caused by external actions or sources.

In fact, going further on this now discovering that the universal remote was not showing  connection to any engine (none of the 3 engine button are lit- bright or dim) and there was a second engine (maybe a Lionchief plus but earlier generation?) running. If the remote isn't connected to any engine- that might be pointing to the remote glitching and power cycling disconnecting from ALL engines. Both engines are just at this point are doing the last commanded action. Just so happens, the steam keeps running and the diesel stopped and is blowing the horn.

Steam engine in the background appears to also be a Lionchief Plus (based on the syle and specifically seeing the drawbar that only Lionchief and Lionchief plus engines have), just unsure of that exact model and generation of electronics. Again, that said, that universal remote doesn't appear to be connected to either engine, and that's more pointing at the remote- why did it disconnect from both engines?

@BradFish1 posted:

I run mine with my CAB2 and have the same problem sometimes, but the horn doesn't blow like yours. Check your pick-up rollers. Mine are very tight and don't roll freely. I think that's the problem and I am going to call Lionel about it on Monday. Maybe we can get @Dave Olson to chime in here.

---

to chime in.

Brad

Again, without more info (was the cab light blinking when it stopped, what was the voltage on the track) but this possibly falls into the low voltage or power loss while running under command resulting in "stalled motor detection".

Given the knowledge now that seeing the remote was not connected in the video, I think potentially there is a different problem in this topic and the answer for one problem is different than the other.

Good morning: Thanks to all for the information.

I have 4 main lines. Each line has a Lionel Power Brick, 180 watts. I am a classic toy train layout using tubular track. Below is a YT video of my layout and this locomotive.

The cab light is not flashing when it stops running.

     https://youtu.be/PBUtBS2sHvU      Play time: 4 minutes

Gary: Hope to see you out rail-fanning. 🚂

The cab light does not blink on mine. I have experienced that on my Legacy engines.

Well, I guess you both should be contacting Lionel support and going through the RMA process.

Hi Venon Barry & Brad:

Does Lionel monitor this thread? "Lionel Service Questions"

I just test the loco again. Still have random issue of stopping.

Gary 🚂

Lionel monitoring this thread, that's funny.

@DennyM posted:

Lionel monitoring this thread, that's funny.

This sounds like a "No"

Gary 🚂