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Need help! This video shows the issue. Have you ever seen this issue?

#1 YES this issue has been seen more times than I can count. In fact- easy to test and reproduce. It's as simple as having too low a volage on the track and commanding a speed the motor cannot reach at that voltage.

Lionchief plus 2.0 and recent Legacy engines share the same control board system (LCP2) and have similar features- one major one being stalled motor detection.

Please tell me you are aware of stalled motor detection, and that running at low voltage or power drops or dips in your track while being run in either command (TMCC/Legacy) or bluetooth can lock out motor control.

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...3#164447381275411583

I tried pulling the manual for your engine (SW8 series) from Lionel support but got document not found.

That's OK because I know for a fact your engine uses the same board set- LCP2 and thus the manual from my SD70MAC is valid as far as this error and cab blinks and motor drive.

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...d-NonPwd%20Units.pdf

Page 44

Locomotive diagnostics

Our locomotive includes built-in diagnostics to monitor the condition of the main drive motor. If a problem is detected, the locomotive's cab light will blink a diagnostic code. If you see the light inside the cab flashing, press RESET (for LEGACY operation), 0 (for TMCC operation), or DIRECTION/power interruption (for conventional operation to attempt to clear the problem. The locomotive will immediately check itself again. If the problem persists, the cab light will blink the code again.

Number of Blinks Diagnostic Code Description

1 Main drive motor stalled.

Here was a similar topic with a recent engine where this safety feaure was discussed https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...7#163461606138314857

Note the end result was the user had less than 18V on the track and thus invoked the low track voltage problem causing motor stall detection to kick in.

Again, in the manual on page 6 of TMCC operation, this key step.

  1. Increase track power voltage to full power (no more than 19 volts AC). If a circuit breaker trips when you turn on the Lionel power supply, check the wheels of your locomotive to make sure they are all securely on the track. Check to make sure the track is free of all metals that may cause a short circuit.

Sadly it doesn't warn you of the consequences of what less than full voltage can invoke - stalled motor detection, especially when the motor cannot reach the commanded speed at the current track voltage.

Last edited by Vernon Barry

I was trying to go back and read testing results that were not in the original post. Somehow I missed that while typing  my replies.

Anyway, so you are using universal remote.

It works after a power cycle reset but then can stop again.

You don't have TMCC/Legacy to test with or perform resets.

Have you tried conventional operation?

What is your power source and voltage on the track? Hopefully full 18V.

Have you tried the Lionchief Bluetooth app (with a phone or tablet) to eliminate a possible problem with the universal remote?

Again just trying to eliminate variables before sending back to Lionel and then the waiting.

#1 YES this issue has been seen more times than I can count. In fact- easy to test and reproduce.

Lionchief plus 2.0 and recent Legacy engines share the same control board system (LCP2) and have similar features- one major one being stalled motor detection.



I thought the stalled motor detection was 1 consecutive cab light flash.

I don't recall anything with the horn blasting constantly as an indicator.

In Gary's video. The cab light doesn't even appear to be flashing.

Last edited by RickO
@RickO posted:

I thought the stalled motor detection was 1 consecutive cab light flash.

don't recall anything with the horn blasting constantly as an indicator.

In Gary's video. The cab light doesn't even appear to be flashing.

Reviewing the video again, yeah sure, the cab light does not blink, but the hand was in the way to see the status of the universal remote until this point in the video and I do not see any of the 3 engine buttons showing connection to the engine.

.

Which again, just amplifies the question of trying other control methods like normal conventional, TMCC, or Bluetooth Lionchief App operation (using a phone or tablet) to ensure this is not a communications issue with that universal remote.

Again, turning the knob on a remote that isn't showing connection to the engine- is not generally expected to work.

Just to show it's not that frame in the video, another frame grab showing absolutely none of the 3 engine selection butons are showing connection to the engine.

The idea here is to eliminate variables and determine if the engine is locking up and then losing connection with the remote, or if somehow that universal remote glitched out  (bad firmware, old firmware, low batteries, user error?) vs this specific LC+2.0 engine keeps doing the last command it received.

Other scenarios- again a power glitch where the engine lost power, stopped, disconnected, and is getting a DC horn offfset from the transformer or some other power error. Again, a power loss or glitch could have caused the disconnect from the engine side, and the engine is blowing th horn from also seeing a DC offset while sensing conventional mode since it is disconnected from the remote.

Again, it might be something with the engine, I'm not saying that's impossible, but from one rather short video, I cannot for sure say the engine caused this state (engine stopped, horn blowing, universal remote not connected) if it was caused by external actions or sources.

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Last edited by Vernon Barry

In fact, going further on this now discovering that the universal remote was not showing  connection to any engine (none of the 3 engine button are lit- bright or dim) and there was a second engine (maybe a Lionchief plus but earlier generation?) running. If the remote isn't connected to any engine- that might be pointing to the remote glitching and power cycling disconnecting from ALL engines. Both engines are just at this point are doing the last commanded action. Just so happens, the steam keeps running and the diesel stopped and is blowing the horn.

Steam engine in the background appears to also be a Lionchief Plus (based on the syle and specifically seeing the drawbar that only Lionchief and Lionchief plus engines have), just unsure of that exact model and generation of electronics. Again, that said, that universal remote doesn't appear to be connected to either engine, and that's more pointing at the remote- why did it disconnect from both engines?

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@BradFish1 posted:

I run mine with my CAB2 and have the same problem sometimes, but the horn doesn't blow like yours. Check your pick-up rollers. Mine are very tight and don't roll freely. I think that's the problem and I am going to call Lionel about it on Monday. Maybe we can get @Dave Olson to chime in here.


to chime in.

Brad

Again, without more info (was the cab light blinking when it stopped, what was the voltage on the track) but this possibly falls into the low voltage or power loss while running under command resulting in "stalled motor detection".

Given the knowledge now that seeing the remote was not connected in the video, I think potentially there is a different problem in this topic and the answer for one problem is different than the other.

Good morning: Thanks to all for the information.

I have 4 main lines. Each line has a Lionel Power Brick, 180 watts. I am a classic toy train layout using tubular track. Below is a YT video of my layout and this locomotive.

The cab light is not flashing when it stops running.

     https://youtu.be/PBUtBS2sHvU      Play time: 4 minutes

Gary: Hope to see you out rail-fanning. 🚂

An update from the Motor City.

Yesterday I called Lionel in Concord, North Carolina and spoke with Desirae in the service department. She ask for my address and looked up my account. She took the information about the locomotive and said this would be covered under their warranty program. I ask her to ask the tech to watch my video on the OGR Forum, “Lionel Service Questions”. She put this information into the service notes. Desirae was very knowledgeable about repair issues.

She email me my case number and a return postage label with the USPS. I took the package to my post office to be mailed back to Lionel. Close by is The Bait Shop. Picked up some night crawlers and went fishing on Middle Straits Lake.

1 Post Office Lionel

2 Bait Shop

Gary: Gone fishing. 🚂

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Last edited by trainroomgary

An update from the Motor City. #2

Tracking this package showed that it arrived at the Lionel Service Center, Concord North Carolina @ 2:05 PM - October 5, 2022. Left my trainroom @ 10:55 AM October 3, 2022. Now I am in a holding pattern at notch 0. Hope they can get this loco out of the repair barn and back to Detroit.

Tracking USPS

Gary: Hope to see you out rail-fanning. 🚂

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Last edited by trainroomgary

An update from the Motor City. #3

Today I received this video from Lionel’s Service Center via email. You will see my loco running on their test track. As of today's date they have not been able to reproduce the issue of the loco just stopping anywhere on the layout.

I did miss their phone call, I will call them back tomorrow. Hopefully they can find the the issue of the loco just stopping.

Hope to see you out rail-fanning: Gary 🚂

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Notice that  the engine connected light on the remote is lit, where in the videos you have from your layout, the remote doesn't show it connected to the engine.

Gary vid capture

gary

Lionel test Center

lionel 1

Gary, this leads me to believe there's something up with your remote, as Vernon mentioned in his posts above.

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@EscapeRocks posted:

Notice that  the engine connected light on the remote is lit, where in the videos you have from your layout, the remote doesn't show it connected to the engine.

Gary vid capture

                                             

Lionel test Center

                                 

Gary, this leads me to believe there's something up with your remote, as Vernon mentioned in his posts above.

HI David: Thanks for the tip. When I call them tomorrow I will mention this to them. Sounds like it maybe getting a dropped signal between the Universal Remote and the loco. The signal is lost and the loco comes to a stop.

Gary 🚂

An update from the Motor City #4 • The loco is coming home! Back to the barn!

Lionel stated the following in an email.

“We saw the video and checked out your train. It has ran continually for hours without stopping. We are also using a universal remote as we have seen you using.  May be your remote which you didn't send in with train.

But it is running without stopping . We were blowing the horn while it was running and never stopped. Thanks”

My reply to Lionel: Hi Lionel Tech Support: “Ok, thanks for letting me know. I do have other Lionel Locos on this remote but they run on Channel 1 or 3. This Amtrak runs on channel 2.  When I get it back I will also test it with the iPhone App.

Take care: Gary”

Hope to see you out rail-fanning: Gary🚂

Gary, Got mine back today and it seems to work fine. I got an email from them on Thursday and they said it was working fine so I called the lady who wrote the email to make sure they were testing it correctly to get it to act up.  I also pointed out how tight the pick up rollers were and they did replace them. How is yours working?

Brad

Hi Brad: Mine also came back today. It is still in the box, my three grandchildren are spending the night. They like to open up my Lionel Boxes.  We will open it up tomorrow and test the locomotive with the Universal Remote and the App on the iPhone. I went to my local hobby shop yesterday and they were sold out of the Universal Remotes.

Lionel thinks my remote is the issue. The kids are spending two nights because there school is closed this Monday.  I will test the loco for several days and report back to this thread on the OGR.

Gary 🚂

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