MTH Realtrax 4x8 Layout Build Progress

I just used grey indoor/outdoor close-cut carpet which seemed to work very well, but you need to know my railroad operates under scale curvature speed limits (O36 curves), aka slow.

Oakfan posted:

Well, my local Hardware/Lumber store no longer carries Homasote board. However, I can get the pink insulation board for my new layout. Is this a good alternative? I see many photos and videos of others using this insulation board so assume it's a good choice.

It's fine or try the Lowes greenish/blue stuff which comes in 3/4" and 1" thick variations. I used inexpensive construction adhesive to attach it to the plywood and weight it down with books, etc. to get a good seal. You can paint it earth brown and sprinkle green and yellow fine turf over the wet paint to give you a good foundation.

TM Terry posted:

I just used grey indoor/outdoor close-cut carpet which seemed to work very well, but you need to know my railroad operates under scale curvature speed limits (O36 curves), aka slow.

Are you able to do scenery on the carpet? I plan to use some of the Woodland Scenics products for ground covering and such.

Richie C. posted:

Oakfan posted:

Well, my local Hardware/Lumber store no longer carries Homasote board. However, I can get the pink insulation board for my new layout. Is this a good alternative? I see many photos and videos of others using this insulation board so assume it's a good choice.

It's fine or try the Lowes greenish/blue stuff which comes in 3/4" and 1" thick variations. I used inexpensive construction adhesive to attach it to the plywood and weight it down with books, etc. to get a good seal. You can paint it earth brown and sprinkle green and yellow fine turf over the wet paint to give you a good foundation.

Thanks Richie. That looks like what I was going to try as well. Paint the board and then do some ground covering. I might do my mountains first.

This is all new to me so I love seeing everyone's layouts and scenery concepts. It really helps me make a plan. I hope to see more ideas as I roam the forums.

Oakfan posted:

TM Terry posted:

I just used grey indoor/outdoor close-cut carpet which seemed to work very well, but you need to know my railroad operates under scale curvature speed limits (O36 curves), aka slow.

Are you able to do scenery on the carpet? I plan to use some of the Woodland Scenics products for ground covering and such.

When I decided to go with carpet, I felt that I had no plans for highly detailed scenery. The density of the real estate on my layout makes trees of no consequence, but bushes and shrubs can be easily attached. I know the carpet texture misses a realistic look. For now I am fine dealing with its shortcomings.

As I add people I will need some modification to the carpet surface if I wish them to stand properly. They can still stand on various platforms of the buildings on my layout. I have yet to add streets, which are still a little down the road (no pun intended). I have a little more space looking for just the perfect building/structure. Then the streets/roads/parking areas will be added.

Oakfan posted:

Well, my local Hardware/Lumber store no longer carries Homasote board. However, I can get the pink insulation board for my new layout. Is this a good alternative? I see many photos and videos of others using this insulation board so assume it's a good choice.

Move to the midwest so you can get homasote at your local Menards.  You'll be buying buildings from them anyway, and I've heard that they no longer ship to CA (please don't hijack the thread with comments about that - it's been done to death).  And as a benefit, you can get a basement.

And a serious suggestion - get your feet wet with scenery by making vignettes on foam board.  Depending on what you make, either use the thin stuff as a base or build terrain by stacking and sculpting the 2" thick pieces.   When you modify or rebuild, you can simply pick them up and plant them where you want.  Or if you don't like the results, you can easily remove them and make something else.

Oakfan,

If you use the 3/4" plywood and put the padding under the track you'll have a quiet layout. Scenery on the ply - paint and glue and scenic material works great - always has.

Using foam as a deck or on top of the deck doesn't really have any advantage. Sure, it is light weight and doesn't require power tools. It brings a different set of attachment limitations and such.

it is good for carving rivers and sanding for terrain shaping. 

yes, some are making it work as decking. The old rule applies - it is your layout - do want you want to do.

I, too, confirmed that Home Depot no longer stocks or ships Soundboard440 (homosote) to CA. here is their product info.

Model # 206136

Internet #202090212

Store SKU #123024

Store SO SKU #532811

No big loss in my opinion. 

Hey Oakfan.........you're getting some sage and inexpensive cost advice here.  Great idea about using either carpet padding or cheap remnants!   Once you ballast your roadbed, and/or perhaps just paint it, the track noise will really be deadened. Of course, I'm talking about cutting up cheap carpet remnants the width and length of any roadbed you need.

Update and a question. 

First, I’m almost finished with my table. I have a little more wiring and then I’ll paint it. It’s coming along nicely, I think. 

My question is do you think I’m going to have issues with my incline? I have about 8 feet of track length to get up to my upper level. I’ve seen it done but everything I’m reading says I need way longer incline. It can’t be done on a 4x8.

Hi Oakfan,

The table looks good.

If you look at the track plan that attached earlier, you will see elevation heights at the track joints. There are 12. I assumed that using the MTH 40-1134 for FasTrack or the 40-1033 trestle set for RealTrax, would provide 12 elevation points. The overpass, the last 2 curves before the elevated reverse loop, make up the last 2. When they are an overpass, only 10 points can be used. The switch on the far left at 9 o'clock pins down or prevents using that set of curves.

The point is , yes, the slope is a little steeper. It won't be problem climbing. You may have to throttle back coming down. Just be careful the first time you run train down.

The complimentary set of MTH stone trestles is 40-1034 for the elevated loop. You can cut sub-roadbed out of wood and make your own blocks at 6.5" height if you wish.

Thanks again Moonman. I understand what you're saying and I feel a bit better about the incline now. My plan is to build my own using plywood and 1X blocks. My hope is that my layout will have mostly scratch built elements, structures and buildings.  Since it's so small, I think that will be manageable over time.

Brad

**Update** Because I have selected a layout for my first build, I figured I would shift the focus of this thread to show my build progress. Since I'm finding this forum so helpful, I want to continue this thread so I have a place to ask questions and possibly give other new hobbyists like myself tips and ideas for their first build.

If this is not the correct place for this topic, please let me know and I will start a new thread elsewhere.

-Brad

Brad,

Good move - hey- just do what common sense tells you to do - the moderator or some cranky will let you know if you've offended them - movin' on - build that railway

I finished the power to the table. For the main power I just bought a heavy duty extension cord and cut off the end. I wired it to a lighted switch to turn on/off power to the whole table. I have an outlet under the shelf for transformers. I’ll plug a surge protector in to that. I also added an outlet with USB connections on the side of the shelf so I could always keep my devices charged while running trains. Everything is working great.

Oakfan....nice progress! I think you are breaking the rule of not showing an adult beverage sitting on the "work in progress" train table.....you need to hydrate while you work.....if you don't drink, I apologize.  On the serious note, I still like your layout plan, and HOPE some cabeeses will keep the rails shiny.

Home Depot doesn’t sell sound board here in my town. And as stated earlier, no Homasote in CA. So I went to a local lumber store and found this 1/2” sound board (I don’t know the name brand). I also got a 1” sheet of foam to go under it. I wanted that just in case I want to add some features below grade. 

Overall, I’m happy with the sound board. It was only $11 and it’s about a perfect dirt color to go under my scenery. I’m not painting it. I still need to glue the 2 boards together. I’m not glueing them to the plywood. Maybe just a few drywall screws. 

So what do you think?

It looks like a high density material that will help with sound abatement. The foam board, meh, I am just not a fan of it as a layout layer. Others like it. I guess you'll find if it does want you need it to do. 

The color will work for an earth base color. 

Moonman posted:

It looks like a high density material that will help with sound abatement. The foam board, meh, I am just not a fan of it as a layout layer. Others like it. I guess you'll find if it does want you need it to do. 

The color will work for an earth base color. 

Obviously, I’ve never worked with this stuff on a train layout. But now I can confirm that the pink board still “echos” when I tap on it much like the plywood. The sound board seems to help a little but it’s no miracle material. I wanted the pink board mainly to carve features below grade on future scenery.

I still have a couple other noise dampening things I’m going to do. I’ll try the carpet pad in the void of the Realtrax and fasten the track with zip ties instead of screws. Fingers crossed. 

The Foam and Sound boards are glued together. I still want to put a facia board around paint the table. But I’m going to start laying the track. Let the fun begin. 

Is the lid of the control panel still loose? Hide the spaghetti.

Make a V with the track having the railheads touch and fold down to connect - it gets flatter as you get closer to closing a loop. Place a lock-on at opposite sides somewhere.

Have fun!

Moonman posted:

Is the lid of the control panel still loose? Hide the spaghetti.

Make a V with the track having the railheads touch and fold down to connect - it gets flatter as you get closer to closing a loop. Place a lock-on at opposite sides somewhere.

Have fun!

Yes, the top board on the control panel is still loose. I have some T-Nuts and brass screws to fasten it once I have all/most of the wiring done. All of the wires will be routed in the shelf below. My hope is that it will be very clean and no wires will show. 

I have the lower level laid out. 

When is the first test run for all laid track?

TM Terry posted:

When is the first test run for all laid track?

I think I’ll wait until I wire all the switches on the lower level. Since I’m new to this, I’m not sure how long that will take.

I’m not fastening the track down yet. Once I get all the lower level working and trains running, I’ll start building the incline on the very back straight section and get upper level reverse loop done. Then I can get that wired up. When everything is working how it should, I’ll start to zip tie the track to the table.

If anyone sees a mistake or has some tips, please don’t hold back. ;-)

Brad

I would check for continuity before wiring any switches. There is a remote possibility that one of the switches having a continuity flaw and need to be removed to repair or replace. And there are derailment concerns for various locomotives and cars. 

Of course the switch mechanism or remote could be defective. So it’s just a choice.

I like to see trains run ASAP. But that’s just me; plus probably most everyone else on this forum.

Looks good! You can pull the switch controller wires under the track for testing. That will let you check length to determine if you need to make and longer sets.

You can track power for the switches for testing also.

The switches will operate by just touching a jumper wire between the terminal. 

Hook up a transformer and power up the layout! 

What do you intend to use for the elevated sub-roadbed? Soundboard?

TM Terry posted:

I would check for continuity before wiring any switches. There is a remote possibility that one of the switches having a continuity flaw and need to be removed to repair or replace. And there are derailment concerns for various locomotives and cars. 

Of course the switch mechanism or remote could be defective. So it’s just a choice.

I like to see trains run ASAP. But that’s just me; plus probably most everyone else on this forum.

Are you saying that I should check the switches because they are known to have issues? I'd be interested to read about the problems found with any MTH Realtrax products so I can avoid major problems.

I should have the trains running in the next couple of days. My free time to work on the project is limited right now.

Thanks for the input. It's much appreciated.

Moonman posted:

Looks good! You can pull the switch controller wires under the track for testing. That will let you check length to determine if you need to make and longer sets.

You can track power for the switches for testing also.

The switches will operate by just touching a jumper wire between the terminal. 

Hook up a transformer and power up the layout! 

What do you intend to use for the elevated sub-roadbed? Soundboard?

I had issues using track power for the switches during my initial test setup that had 2 switches. Once I put them on auxiliary power, they worked great. It may have been that I was only using the small power supply that came with the RTR at first. I used the Z-1000 for the test where I separated the track and auxiliary power.

I will do as you suggested and just run the wires under the track for the test. I'm sure I will have to add length to the remote switches wiring. They are too short.

I'm going to run the elevated section of Realtrax on plywood. I will not be using the foam or the sound board for the elevated portion. I will put down some dense foam weather stripping tape on the plywood and set the track on that.

Oakfan posted:

Moonman posted:

Looks good! You can pull the switch controller wires under the track for testing. That will let you check length to determine if you need to make and longer sets.

You can track power for the switches for testing also.

The switches will operate by just touching a jumper wire between the terminal. 

Hook up a transformer and power up the layout! 

What do you intend to use for the elevated sub-roadbed? Soundboard?

I had issues using track power for the switches during my initial test setup that had 2 switches. Once I put them on auxiliary power, they worked great. It may have been that I was only using the small power supply that came with the RTR at first. I used the Z-1000 for the test where I separated the track and auxiliary power.

I will do as you suggested and just run the wires under the track for the test. I'm sure I will have to add length to the remote switches wiring. They are too short.

I'm going to run the elevated section of Realtrax on plywood. I will not be using the foam or the sound board for the elevated portion. I will put down some dense foam weather stripping tape on the plywood and set the track on that.

Using the AUX power from the Z-1000 brick is certainly a good way to go. There's no problems with the RealTrax switches. They have a coil motor. It will draw a couple of amps momentarily. Fire two at once and it could slow a train for a split second.

I mentioned the lock-ons on opposite side to provide both outside rails with common. If you put two switches together turn-out to turn-out, the common can get lost because of the trigger rails for the non-derail. There is a 10" ground track that does this also. #40-1068-2

Those are the only 2 nuances that I can think of with those switches.

Thermostat wire is the easiest to find locally for switch and accessory wire. 

For the elevated grade - subtract the thickness of the plywood from the numbers on the track plan and cut the supports to that length. The slope is about 6.5%. If you have a miter saw, you can bevel the top of the supports to 3.75 degrees (the grade). Then, the sub-roadbed will sit flat.

Oh! Now I understand about the lock-on on both outside rails. I missed that earlier. I have 4 lock-ons that I can use right now. Currently I only have 2 connected and I think they are on the same outside rail. I can fix this. Do you recommend that I put the other 2 lock-ons somewhere on the track? If so, where would be a good location?

I do have a miter saw. You laid out my plan just how I was going to tackle that. I'm still debating how I will fasten the columns to the table. I have a couple ideas but I'll have to see which works best.

Thanks

Looking good. Your bench work looks very well put together with a nice and neat finished appearance.

Good luck moving forward and have fun!

Oakfan posted:

Oh! Now I understand about the lock-on on both outside rails. I missed that earlier. I have 4 lock-ons that I can use right now. Currently I only have 2 connected and I think they are on the same outside rail. I can fix this. Do you recommend that I put the other 2 lock-ons somewhere on the track? If so, where would be a good location?

I do have a miter saw. You laid out my plan just how I was going to tackle that. I'm still debating how I will fasten the columns to the table. I have a couple ideas but I'll have to see which works best.

Thanks

The test run will help decide if you need more than two. Maybe 12 and 6 o'clock on the lower level and one just past the switch where the elevated loop starts. Then, observe a loco operation.

I don't think that they would need to be screwed to the table. When the elevated structure is assembled having the sub-roadbed screwed to the piers, the structure should be solid enough to just sit on the table. If the inertia of a train through a corner makes it slide a little, then, just putting a nail next to the pier should keep it from sliding.

Realtrax remote track switches have a track ground terminal and a track power terminal available on the terminal block. When using Raeltrax I always used them. Also yes, when putting Realtrax switches back-to-back ground continuity is lost because of the way non-derailing is implemented. Don't forget to check that the gap is maintained between the short non-derail trigger rails and the adjacent track pieces.

Lew 

I do better with pictures and diagrams.Please let me know if I have made a mistake.

1) I need to make sure I have a good gap between all of the center rails (Hot) of the switches and their adjacent track sections. 

2) I should put my Lock-Ons so that they are alternately connected to both outside rails making them both common.

3) I will be using the 14v auxiliary power from my Z-1000 to power all my switches and operating track sections.

Wrong place for the gap(s). The two inside common rails (at the top of your pic above) are where the gaps are required.

Lew

Oakfan posted:

I do better with pictures and diagrams.Please let me know if I have made a mistake.

1) I need to make sure I have a good gap between all of the center rails (Hot) of the switches and their adjacent track sections. 

2) I should put my Lock-Ons so that they are alternately connected to both outside rails making them both common.

3) I will be using the 14v auxiliary power from my Z-1000 to power all my switches and operating track sections.

• 1   No gaps needed - the switch is built to handle operation properly
•  2  Well, yes, one on the inside of a loop and one on the outside 
•  3  yes  

Thank you both for helping me with this. As you can see, I’m a total noobie. 

Can I ask you to explain what the “control rails” are meant to do? Does it have something to do with correcting the switch if it’s out of position as the train hits that rail? 

I read this from the switch manual about 5 times trying understand what it’s saying. It seems like the switches take care of themselves as long as they are wired correctly. 

“The RealTrax O-31 Switch performs all of the functions of other switches, but better. It has a double-microswitch driven non-derailing feature. Inside the Switch Block (lantern housing) are four powerful but efficient and quiet solenoid coils that drive the switch points back and forth at a voltage and current draw as yet unexperienced in model railroading. The RealTrax Switch operates on only 10Volts and 1.25Amps. It has a spring assisted mechanism that ensures that the points always will be in the correct position. If you change directions with a RealTrax Switch, you will not have to worry about derailments or electrical short circuits.”

Oakfan posted:

Thank you both for helping me with this. As you can see, I’m a total noobie. 

Can I ask you to explain what the “control rails” are meant to do? Does it have something to do with correcting the switch if it’s out of position as the train hits that rail? 

Yes. That's it exactly. 

You can forget to align it properly on a layout as the train is cruising around. Then, you notice the switch lantern has the wrong color facing you. As you stretch for the switch controller handle the train enters the switch and you hear the sound of the switch changing and the train passes through. Relief, panic subsides.

You'll experience it.

Oakfan posted:

I read this from the switch manual about 5 times trying understand what it’s saying. It seems like the switches take care of themselves as long as they are wired correctly. 

“The RealTrax O-31 Switch performs all of the functions of other switches, but better. It has a double-microswitch driven non-derailing feature. Inside the Switch Block (lantern housing) are four powerful but efficient and quiet solenoid coils that drive the switch points back and forth at a voltage and current draw as yet unexperienced in model railroading. The RealTrax Switch operates on only 10Volts and 1.25Amps. It has a spring assisted mechanism that ensures that the points always will be in the correct position. If you change directions with a RealTrax Switch, you will not have to worry about derailments or electrical short circuits.”

That sounded so cool when RealTrax was introduced. Now, it is a power hog. 

yes, that's the non-derail feature. 

It has nothing to do with wiring it correctly. it's built into the switch. 

Oakfan - nice thread! I enjoyed reading it from the beginning. You've come a long way in a short time but it is looking great.