I still like MPC Lionel Trains do you?

This whole MPC thread is very interesting at least for me. My family has had Lionel Trains since the early 50's. In the late 60's, like so many other teenagers, I kind of lost interest in playing around with the trains. In the 70's, I bought a several MPC cars for our layout even though I wasn't directly involved with the trains. 
These days, I'm trying to figure out just how to get back into things. Reading some of these posts and looking at the pictures of the MPC era products, makes me realize that had I stayed on top of things, I probably would have a LOT of MPC era stuff today. Just recently, I bought a MoPac MPC era boxcar, and I plan to buy more MPC era rolling stock whenever possible. I sure wish I had the Life Savors tank car in my collection. LOL! 

I'm also grateful for the link to the MPC thread on the forum. I'm enjoying all the pictures. 

I have always wondered, why Lionel has never re-issued the Life Savers tank car.

Not for me .   Thanks!

Marek posted:

Then I saw this auction, and I told myself I had to get it:

Lot 374: Lionel 6-1487 Broadway LTD Train Set - Incomplete

... once owned by Richard P. Kughn himself!

A good auction nonetheless - got me the Century Club F3s (brand new) for $280, some NYC rolling stock bundle for $90, and a Lionel D&H Alco C-420 #412 brand new for $210...

Was wondering when I saw the ad for that auction if the claim to be part of the Kughn collection was legitimate.  Specifically, broken trains and incomplete sets seemed suspect, as even I don't own anything in such a state and certainly am not at Kughn's level.  Can anyone confirm?

What, me worry? 

Alfred E Neuman posted:

Marek posted:

Then I saw this auction, and I told myself I had to get it:

Lot 374: Lionel 6-1487 Broadway LTD Train Set - Incomplete

... once owned by Richard P. Kughn himself!

A good auction nonetheless - got me the Century Club F3s (brand new) for $280, some NYC rolling stock bundle for $90, and a Lionel D&H Alco C-420 #412 brand new for $210...

Was wondering when I saw the ad for that auction if the claim to be part of the Kughn collection was legitimate.  Specifically, broken trains and incomplete sets seemed suspect, as even I don't own anything in such a state and certainly am not at Kughn's level.  Can anyone confirm?

What, me worry? 

There's this article: For the Love of Lionel: The Collection of Richard P. Kughn

Mark

A few of my favorite sets from 1980 and 1981.

I'm with Ed H.  I love those 6 axle SD locomotives and freight cars with die cast sprung trucks.

Stu

Did somebody day MPC? Great stuff.

Chessie Royal Limited lead by the 8061.

jim sutter posted:

I have always wondered, why Lionel has never re-issued the Life Savers tank car.

Jim, it was reissued, but as a TTOS Cal Stewart meet car, in 2007. An earlier re-issue was cataloged in 2001 Vol. 1 as no. 19629, but that car was cancelled, for some reason. Here's a little discussion on the two lifesavers cars that have been produced, that I put in a thread back in 2015:

There have been two versions of this car made by Lionel - the no. 9278 from 1978, and the no. 52476, a special issue done for the Cal-Stewart train show in 2007. They are slightly different. I've attached some photos of the cars to show the differences. 

The later 52476 added die cast sprung trucks, whereas the 9278 has plastic trucks (although die cast trucks can be added), and the 52476 has some added rivet detail near the end caps (Lionel changed the mold prior to this). Also, the logo and other decoration are somewhat different (the 52476 is the one with the blue background behind the Lifesavers lettering, and there are other differences as well).

 In addition, the colored striping decoration is painted on with the 52476, and on the 9278 it is a separately applied covering put on with some kind of adhesive, presumably (paint processes back then were not available as they are today to do applications like this, at least at reasonable cost). Finally, the colored portions of the 52476 have a flat finish, whereas the 9278 has a shinier finish.

My personal preference is the earlier 9278 car, primarily because (at least to me) the shinier finish is nicer looking. One of the main challenges in finding the 9278 is getting one that has the chrome finish in nice shape. Sometimes, if they have not been carefully handled, the chrome finish can deteriorate and get dull (they are, after all, 36+ years old at this point).

jim sutter posted:

Nice. Those tuscan Pennsylvania diesel were always my favorite. 

I've always thought that the finish on those tuscan Pennsy F-3s was really gorgeous.  They're something to see in person. 

That's quite a set of beautiful MPC trains posted by Tim.

Breezinup,

Thank you for that information. I'm with you. The 9278 car is sharper.

I loved mpc stuff, honestly the f3 sets I have from mpc with rubber tires will out pull my postwar f3 with manga traction u grades

Oh, I love MPC,  its affordable!  Just bought two hoppers at the fall train show in Spokane for $3!  They're perfect for customizing and practicing weathering.  Actually if it wasnt for these inexpensive trains,  I would not have entered into the hobby.  

-Nick

Lionel MPC is what got me back into the hobby.  I purchased the heartland Express from the old Nicholas Smith store at 11th and Arch in Philly, in 1977.  After that initial purchase I became hooked and bought many MPC items.  They had great graphics.  They performed well and best of all, were reasonably affordable to me.  

Marek posted:

Alfred E Neuman posted:

Marek posted:

Then I saw this auction, and I told myself I had to get it:

Lot 374: Lionel 6-1487 Broadway LTD Train Set - Incomplete

... once owned by Richard P. Kughn himself!

A good auction nonetheless - got me the Century Club F3s (brand new) for $280, some NYC rolling stock bundle for $90, and a Lionel D&H Alco C-420 #412 brand new for $210...

Was wondering when I saw the ad for that auction if the claim to be part of the Kughn collection was legitimate.  Specifically, broken trains and incomplete sets seemed suspect, as even I don't own anything in such a state and certainly am not at Kughn's level.  Can anyone confirm?

What, me worry? 

There's this article: For the Love of Lionel: The Collection of Richard P. Kughn

Mark

Thanks for the link to that article, but it plays to my initial impression maybe the good stuff really was from the Kughn collection and P&H threw in odds and ends without disclaiming.  Will presume it was all on the up and up since it's too late to participate.  Congratulations on your purchases.

What, me worry?

Alfred E Neuman posted:

Marek posted:

Alfred E Neuman posted:

Marek posted:

Then I saw this auction, and I told myself I had to get it:

Lot 374: Lionel 6-1487 Broadway LTD Train Set - Incomplete

... once owned by Richard P. Kughn himself!

A good auction nonetheless - got me the Century Club F3s (brand new) for $280, some NYC rolling stock bundle for $90, and a Lionel D&H Alco C-420 #412 brand new for $210...

Was wondering when I saw the ad for that auction if the claim to be part of the Kughn collection was legitimate.  Specifically, broken trains and incomplete sets seemed suspect, as even I don't own anything in such a state and certainly am not at Kughn's level.  Can anyone confirm?

What, me worry? 

There's this article: For the Love of Lionel: The Collection of Richard P. Kughn

Mark

Thanks for the link to that article, but it plays to my initial impression maybe the good stuff really was from the Kughn collection and P&H threw in odds and ends without disclaiming.  Will presume it was all on the up and up since it's too late to participate.  Congratulations on your purchases.

What, me worry?

 

Actually there are two more auctions... This was part three of five ~

Next one is November 6th I believe... 

Mark 

MPC/Fundimentions/General Mills came about when the original Lionel exited the model train business. It was a time when many guys in their post college years started taking interest in train collecting. MPC purchased the molds/tooling and went about reissuing some of the older catalog items along with some new things. I like MPC trains as they represent a significant period of model train collecting. Some MPC rolling stock is a bit stark looking (unpainted plastic color rolling stock) and their engines were not always very detailed but they are American made,  great runners, reliable and are now very affordable.

About 3/4 of my collection is MPC.   Love the stuff.  Colorful, simple, easy to maintain, and the price is right.   I like just flipping the switch and watching them go.   

It's also fun to collect since there are enough variations to keep it interesting, like with Cracker Jack car, but it's not at the Postwar level of variation insanity.  

The complaints about pulling power I feel are overblown.  MPC engines were designed to pull MPC cars, not strings of postwar operating cars or heavyweight passenger sets.   Give these engines 12-15 cars of similar vintage and they do fine.   (That said, once I had 60 cars tailing my 1985-vintage Illinois Central F-3--I think it could have easily pulled 90).

Tommy_F posted:

The complaints about pulling power I feel are overblown.  MPC engines were designed to pull MPC cars, not strings of postwar operating cars or heavyweight passenger sets.   Give these engines 12-15 cars of similar vintage and they do fine.   (That said, once I had 60 cars tailing my 1985-vintage Illinois Central F-3--I think it could have easily pulled 90).

Has anyone noticed some MPC engines seem to get unusually hot rather quickly running on a 180W PowerHouse through a Legacy PowerMaster, particularly when pulling a long consist of illuminated passenger cars?

I love it! I have an almost complete collection of every "higher end" Collector Line Item. I finally have all the Top of the Line and Collector Line Sets. The decoration is great, and they run well. Just doesnt compare to todays chinese imports.

johnstrains posted:

Did somebody day MPC? Great stuff.

Chessie Royal Limited lead by the 8061.

 

John, you need the add on car for this set. The 6208 Chessie Gondola to go with the crane car...

hobby-go-lucky posted:

Tommy_F posted:

The complaints about pulling power I feel are overblown.  MPC engines were designed to pull MPC cars, not strings of postwar operating cars or heavyweight passenger sets.   Give these engines 12-15 cars of similar vintage and they do fine.   (That said, once I had 60 cars tailing my 1985-vintage Illinois Central F-3--I think it could have easily pulled 90).

Has anyone noticed some MPC engines seem to get unusually hot rather quickly running on a 180W PowerHouse through a Legacy PowerMaster, particularly when pulling a long consist of illuminated passenger cars?

Which passenger cars? As Tommy F noted, many MPC locos were not designed to pull long strings of heavy cars.

My SUV is not large enough to pull my son's equipment  trailer. That doesn't make it a bad car, or mean my car is underpowered.

ZWPOWER13 posted:

johnstrains posted:

Did somebody day MPC? Great stuff.

Chessie Royal Limited lead by the 8061.

 

John, you need the add on car for this set. The 6208 Chessie Gondola to go with the crane car...

Yes I do, Mark!

But here's the real omission. Was wondering if anyone would call me on it. Missing from my pics (it's still in original box stashed somewhere in the basement) is the 6818 Western Maryland reefer. It's noticeable in Ed H.'s post up above.

I have always thought, the 8061 Chessie U-Boat was one of the sharpest paint jobs Lionel ever done. The colors are brilliant.  

Mpc brought back the General and GG-1  

And the majority of my stock is mpc; because of price. 

But it wasn't all sunshine. Gramps cried over MPCs tarnishing of Lionel quality and stopped ordering sight unseen after about 43 years of "just build it and send it". I scoffed at MPC can motor starter sets and debated on HO; I wanted a brush motor even as a kid.

The AC steam was fine. It was the MPC ac diesels than seemed to suffer from "Monday morning factory lemon syndrome", switchers especially. I've lost more mpc engines to age than any other company/era. (Only lost one Marx ever)

They also introduced platic wheels (what?...is this S guage?) and unrectified DC can motors into starter sets without much fanfare or warning ; and that IMO threw the biggest wrench in the box right into the gears of public perception of "military grade" reliability and ruggedness that was still synonymous with Lionel branding at the time.

    I.e. Mpc saved Lionel, but not without some bad toe stubs from stepping off path. I saw stacks of dc starter trains at Kmart burnt up on postwar transformers because the change was downplayed as far as warnings went....and mpc gave them a hard time about accepting them...so Lionel was dropped at Kmart, its last stand in dept. stores here for a long while.

I attribute much of the drop in the prestige of O to MPC. There was also already/still a company making cheap colorful trains...Marx. MPC sort of stomped on their market. I think if Marx would have dropped the "wheel flap trucks" or at least painted them, they would have done much better against MPC in dept. stores; they were very comparable other than that, and Marx was way lower priced.

I keep a sticker of the gram weight under each car I own because as the MPC cars grew in number, so did the stringline derailments that are far more common on the 0-27 curves; light MPC cars MUST go to the tail end. ....my longer trains tend to have a age progressive look from head end to tail end, older to newer, and those great cast cabooses get somewhat limited use now too.

It's been a love/hate relationship between me and Lionel since 1969.

But it wasn't all sunshine. Gramps cried over MPCs tarnishing of Lionel quality and stopped ordering sight unseen after about 43 years of "just build it and send it".

MPC did make some junk, but late Postwar Lionel (1968-69) production stuff wasn't so great either.

I have a good amount of MPC; Santa Fe GPs, NP GPs , GN U Boat and NP U Boats, a couple of GN EP-5s, as well as a good amount of rolling stock. I like it and run it.

Growing up in the 80's, my dad introduced us to a lot MPC stuff he bought in the 70's and 80's. He also had a fair amount of Postwar stuff that was pretty cherished. Dad would give stuff to me and my brothers for birthdays and running trains was pretty common. We always liked looking at the higher end MPC offerings that he picked up though. He still has his new-in-box & never ran Hudson that he bought new in 83. 

It was pretty obvious to us though that the MPC stuff was cheap and that kind of also help diminish our interests in trains... As kids, we wanted more from our trains.

The 90's rolled around and dad bought some of our first MTH Protosound engines and an articulated steamer and that resparked a lot of interest. The MPC stuff was just laughable and the Postwar stuff was seen as quality but to rare/expensive to run.  We haven't bought much Lionel since,  dad said that he has paid enough money for their stuff which was pretty much the same thing every year with different paint. 

While the MPC era wasn't a bright spot in Lionel history, it did keep the company and the hobby going. I think with the condition of the hobby, economy, and the limited technical resources, MPC trains did about as well as they could do at the time.

The MPC stuff that I have now (given to me by my dad) has great sentimental value and I hope to pass it down to my kids soon.  It still brings me back to the simpler days of running trains and going to large train shows with family. I like the ones that I have, but wouldn't buy anymore no matter how good of a deal it is.

Running my mpc and postwar is very boring, because they always work.   (Granted I only have the middle and high end stuff, but not everything Ford and Chevy have made were perfect; Pinto, Explorer and Corvair to name a few).  

Course that's better than:

-Stuck in reverse

-Engine wont respond to controller 

-Smoke unit burned up because...

-Oh, that's the wrong kind of sinewave for your engine

-Your software level is wrong

-Must be a bad aclu, dclu, tio, tos or "fill in the blank" circuit board.

Except for a SF reefer, I think everything I've bought so far at York has been mpc or postwar.

I am addicted to the price and the quality. 

NOT LionelLLC posted:

I'm with Ed H.  I love those 6 axle SD locomotives and freight cars with die cast sprung trucks.

Stu

One other great feature, they work right out of the box !

The MPC/Fundimensions era were the trains of my formative years. I remember the late postwar era in the 1960's but the 1970's really stick in my mind. I started buying a lot of the rolling stock in the mid 70's. the offerings of this era seem to be a natural progression from the postwar era. I ran large consists of 9700 boxcars behind postwar steam locomotives so the trains were quite impressive. I was delighted when the 8100 N&W Powhatan Arrow passenger set was released in 1981. I removed the old SOS guts and replaced it with Railsounds II tender (Swapped the tender shells). It still runs extremely well. Gotta love those MPC/Fundimensions trains!

I run conventional- MPC stuff is right in my wheel house.

C W Burfle posted:

But it wasn't all sunshine. Gramps cried over MPCs tarnishing of Lionel quality and stopped ordering sight unseen after about 43 years of "just build it and send it".

MPC did make some junk, but late Postwar Lionel (1968-69) production stuff wasn't so great either.

Agreed CW but Lionel LLC has had more than it's fair share of "stinkers". Some of the recent starter sets are so cheap, silly looking and miserable it turns my stomach to even see the Lionel name on them. And don't get me started on the Lionel branded battery powered G gauge!

Boomer posted:

C W Burfle posted:

But it wasn't all sunshine. Gramps cried over MPCs tarnishing of Lionel quality and stopped ordering sight unseen after about 43 years of "just build it and send it".

MPC did make some junk, but late Postwar Lionel (1968-69) production stuff wasn't so great either.

Agreed CW but Lionel LLC has had more than it's fair share of "stinkers". Some of the recent starter sets are so cheap, silly looking and miserable it turns my stomach to even see the Lionel name on them. And don't get me started on the Lionel branded battery powered G gauge!

The Dino Diesel Switcher R-T-R set. My local Menards can't give that thing away.

C W Burfle posted:

hobby-go-lucky posted:

Tommy_F posted:

The complaints about pulling power I feel are overblown.  MPC engines were designed to pull MPC cars, not strings of postwar operating cars or heavyweight passenger sets.   Give these engines 12-15 cars of similar vintage and they do fine.   (That said, once I had 60 cars tailing my 1985-vintage Illinois Central F-3--I think it could have easily pulled 90).

Has anyone noticed some MPC engines seem to get unusually hot rather quickly running on a 180W PowerHouse through a Legacy PowerMaster, particularly when pulling a long consist of illuminated passenger cars?

Which passenger cars? As Tommy F noted, many MPC locos were not designed to pull long strings of heavy cars.

My SUV is not large enough to pull my son's equipment  trailer. That doesn't make it a bad car, or mean my car is underpowered.

For example, the 8970 F3-A pulling F3-AB dummies and the eight MPC Congressional Limited cars.  The dual Pullmor motors are up to the task, but the powered locomotive seems to get much hotter much quicker than using an MRC Tech II Trainpower O27 transformer.  Same with the 8302 4-4-2 "Atlantic" pulling nine Baby Madisons comprising the MPC Broadway Limited set.  Just wondering if the 140-watt difference, which does improve pulling performance in terms of speed, is too much if applied too long.  Also using FasTrack with the 180W 18' O72 loop versus O27 profile tubular with the 40W 12' O54 loop.

Yes I like the new stuff too but miss the Michigan era of Lionel You could send them a 50 year old engine and they could fix it. Now we get 3 years and prices that are outrageous.

Some MPC rolling stock was ok.  Engines are not ok.  

Boomer posted:

C W Burfle posted:

But it wasn't all sunshine. Gramps cried over MPCs tarnishing of Lionel quality and stopped ordering sight unseen after about 43 years of "just build it and send it".

MPC did make some junk, but late Postwar Lionel (1968-69) production stuff wasn't so great either.

Agreed CW but Lionel LLC has had more than it's fair share of "stinkers". Some of the recent starter sets are so cheap, silly looking and miserable it turns my stomach to even see the Lionel name on them. And don't get me started on the Lionel branded battery powered G gauge!

Agreed.  My son received an O scale Thomas set for Christmas a couple years ago.  That thing gives me fits.  Defective couplers, the drive train sounds like it's about to disintegrate, and the whistle makes Sound of Steam seem authentic

Every era has its lemons--Winner, Scout, DC powered sets, etc.   Lionel isn't all 700Es and aluminum cars

I like MPC trains!!!!! 

I acquired a taste for MPC, because I have bought Lionel product over the years, including when MPC was new. I initially thought nothing could compare with PW Lionel. Wrong. MPC has a flavor all its own.  For example, I acquired the VGN, NH, and CR rectifiers and built variations of the PW VGN rectifier set (the one with the Timken box car) using MPC pieces, which then generated new enthusiasm.