Improving range of LionCheif with Bluetooth locomotives?

I know that the new iPhone 11 and iPhone 11 MaxPro has beeter antennae than previous... but I have no way of knowing if that extends to BlueTooth operation.

Jon

The range of the BT is one big sticking point.  The range of the traditional LC and LC+ remotes is also an issue, though it seems better than the BT equipped models.

Make sure there is no one, especially a large person standing between you and the loco. The water in the human body can degrade the signal.

There are Bluetooth signal repeaters / extenders on the market. I haven’t used one, and I certainly don’t know if it would be compatible with the Lionel Bluetooth.  Just brainstorming with you...

Usually, with BT it seems that you need some sort of interface to select the BT device (ie phone to repeater) or pairing buttons to connect that way. With Lionel BT, it seems to be more of a direct/auto connection between the engine and the device/remote.  I’m not sure if the BT repeater would be able to intercept and rebroadcast the signal??? 

@Dave Olson come to think of it, a Bluetooth signal repeater housed in a railroad building would be a useful accessory.

Perhaps someone with more Bluetooth knowledge will comment. 

You could always walk around with the train, that’s what the remote is for 😉

Yes I found on a small garden railway some rock piles would block the BT signal the hand held remotes have a much better range. Even on the home layout if I hit a bad bit of track or occasionally behind something and I am in the wrong location the train stops and you have to work to get it to connect with the BT device again.  I have pretty well given up with the BT and just use the hand held remotes you do not need to look at the screen to make them work and the kids find them much easier to use then BT.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

The range of the BT is one big sticking point.  The range of the traditional LC and LC+ remotes is also an issue, though it seems better than the BT equipped models.

For the BT range issue, is it mainly a remote issue as opposed to the engine? 

Not exactly sure how it will work, but I wonder if the range issue could be fixed with the CAB3 base?  If I get the CAB3 base, I would be using my CAB2 remote, will be interesting to see.

I guess we'll know when the BASE3 is actually shipped and people are using it.  Personally, I have a spare Legacy command base, and I'll keep using that until all the bugs are worked out of the BASE3, I'm sure that will take some time!

The Base3 is getting the BLE5.0 module, which increases range to around 100ft.

Dave thank you, that answered my question

@Dave Olson posted:

The Base3 is getting the BLE5.0 module, which increases range to around 100ft.

That's good news Dave, glad to see that issue being addressed.   Now, if I could just get LCS working properly with my DZ-2500 switches and the CSM2...

@Dave Olson posted:

The Base3 is getting the BLE5.0 module, which increases range to around 100ft.

Will this help improve the range of existing locomotives that do not have Bluetooth 5?

"Will this help improve the range of existing locomotives that do not have Bluetooth 5?"

Good question.  My reading of what's on the web is that they did not increase transmitter power, rather increased receiver sensitivity.  If that's a correct reading, older locos would have the old range (20-30 feet indoors) rather than the new range (80-100 feet).  But I'm no engineer, and it's always necessary to field test the theory .

It was just a question of time for Lionel to move to Bluetooth5 and get the operating range  up to 100 feet. I have tested other control systems using Bluetooth5 and have previously verified the increased range.  Wi-Fi based control systems also have good operating range. The point here is that it was a matter of Lionel's choice, not a fundamental systems issue.

@BOB WALKER posted:

It was just a question of time for Lionel to move to Bluetooth5 and get the operating range  up to 100 feet. I have tested other control systems using Bluetooth5 and have previously verified the increased range.  Wi-Fi based control systems also have good operating range. The point here is that it was a matter of Lionel's choice, not a fundamental systems issue.

Bluetooth 5 does not guarantee increased range. There are plenty of Bluetooth 5 devices that have a range that do not exceed 10 or even 3 feet by design. Lionel's current problems with existing pre-BLE5 locos are not because of using older technology but because it was designed with limited power output and PCB antennas that don't offer much range to begin with.

The signal is only as good as the weakest link. So engines with BLE4.0, many being limited to around an average of 20 feet, will still be limited to 20 feet when being controlled by the Base3 with BLE5.0

Engines coming out with BLE5.0 will have much greater range. We have already done some range testing with BLE5.0 and it's a huge difference.

@Dave Olson posted:

The signal is only as good as the weakest link. So engines with BLE4.0, many being limited to around an average of 20 feet, will still be limited to 20 feet when being controlled by the Base3 with BLE5.0

Engines coming out with BLE5.0 will have much greater range. We have already done some range testing with BLE5.0 and it's a huge difference.

Any chance of being able to stick the new board in existing locomotives?  I suspect not, but I had to ask...

@Dave Olson posted:

The signal is only as good as the weakest link. So engines with BLE4.0, many being limited to around an average of 20 feet, will still be limited to 20 feet when being controlled by the Base3 with BLE5.0

Engines coming out with BLE5.0 will have much greater range. We have already done some range testing with BLE5.0 and it's a huge difference.

Dave, are any of the universal remotes different from previous ones, or would they all have the same internals?  Was not sure if any of the newer ones had a better range.  I know that i have two and they have different numbers on the back of the remote.

@Dave Olson posted:

The signal is only as good as the weakest link. So engines with BLE4.0, many being limited to around an average of 20 feet, will still be limited to 20 feet when being controlled by the Base3 with BLE5.0

Engines coming out with BLE5.0 will have much greater range. We have already done some range testing with BLE5.0 and it's a huge difference.

It would be amazing if you offered BLE5.0 upgrades. This would help my club a ton to be able to run the Polar Express and Hogwarts during Open Houses. They always get stuck at one end of the layout. Thomas, Percy and the Halloween RS3 have no issue at all though.

@greg773 posted:

It would be amazing if you offered BLE5.0 upgrades. This would help my club a ton to be able to run the Polar Express and Hogwarts during Open Houses. They always get stuck at one end of the layout. Thomas, Percy and the Halloween RS3 have no issue at all though.

My PE and Hogwarts are now TMCC, they run all over on any layout, including the NJ-HR.