Skip to main content

I know a number of us have the Phantom set, I happen to have the first version.  It's a cool set and an eye turner with visitors, but it's frustrating that it can barely drag it's four passenger cars on level track, much less on grades.  I have Fastrack, so the magnatraction helps, but on the club layout with Atlas track, even on level track is sometimes struggles to get the consist moving, the locomotive just spins it's wheels.  I'm sure traction tires would help, but I don't have them.  Of course, if the motor was in the rear, it would make a HUGE difference I'd imagine, but in the front it has no traction at all.  I even put about 12oz of weight in the front to help, no joy, it didn't seem to change anything.

 

I finally have had enough, so the Phantom improvement project has been launched! 

 

I got an old GP-9 stripped chassis with just the motor and power truck and set out to improve my locomotive.  Since I've had several AC powered dual motored locomotives that have been pretty strong pullers, I figured that was a place to start.  Here in pictures is my progress report.

 

 

First step is to remove the old sideframes from the GP-9 truck.  I ground the tops so as not to damage the square holes that I'll need later, they match up perfectly with the Phantom sideframes.

 

Phantom Dual Motor Installation N1

 

The "new" motor and truck, cleaned up and ready to install.

 

Phantom Dual Motor Installation N2

 

For the motor mount, I drilled out the welds on the old motor mounting plate.  I drilled smaller holes from this side, then on the drill press, slowly partially drilled through to release the plate.

 

Phantom Dual Motor Installation N3

 

Next, I cut a hole in the chassis and drilled out the holes for the mounting screws.  Conveniently, the old swivel mount exactly lined up with the keystone hole for correct alignment, making it easy to locate my cutout correctly.

 

Phantom Dual Motor Installation N4

 

The next two pictures are the motor mounting plate in place with flathead screws, looks like it belongs there!

 

Phantom Dual Motor Installation N5

Phantom Dual Motor Installation N6

 

 

Here's the chassis with the motors mounted and also the sideframes. they look to be in the right position.

 

Phantom Dual Motor Installation N7

 

After a couple minor alterations, the fuel tank with the speaker and controls is mounted.

 

Phantom Dual Motor Installation N8

 

A test fit of the shell, perfect fit, looks just like it did before the surgery.  Plenty of clearance for the new motor.

 

Phantom Dual Motor Installation N9

 

The old electronics package isn't going to fit, so I'm going to use an ERR AC Commander and a RailSounds 4 board set.  Some time back I ordered the RS4 Phantom sound board in case I ever got to this point.  I rummaged around in my parts box for a RS motherboard that would hold the cars oriented so they would fit.  It's a tight fit, but it looks like standing the RS boards and MB on their sides will get it all in.

 

Phantom Dual Motor Installation NA

 

That's as far as I got today, but more to come.

 

Attachments

Images (10)
  • Phantom Dual Motor Installation N1
  • Phantom Dual Motor Installation N2
  • Phantom Dual Motor Installation N3
  • Phantom Dual Motor Installation N4
  • Phantom Dual Motor Installation N5
  • Phantom Dual Motor Installation N6
  • Phantom Dual Motor Installation N7
  • Phantom Dual Motor Installation N8
  • Phantom Dual Motor Installation N9
  • Phantom Dual Motor Installation NA
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Neat project.  I've always liked the Phantom although I don't have one.  Are you at all concerned the boards may be incompatible with the amount of power the two motors will draw and voltage their sweet spot will be in/  I don't know much about these motors.  They look big, old-school, and perhaps much hungrier than newer can motors. 

Originally Posted by MartyE:

Doesn't one of the trucks have the cherry switch Cam setup?  How is that overcome?

Yep, but I can put magnets on the wheel with a reed switch or use my motor speed sensing circuit to know when it's moving.  However, I have the Phantom III RS4 board, and it may not need the cherry switch, we'll see.  In any case, it's a minor issue, I'll get it working, I"m not letting that stop me!

 

 

Originally Posted by Lee Willis:

Neat project.  I've always liked the Phantom although I don't have one.  Are you at all concerned the boards may be incompatible with the amount of power the two motors will draw and voltage their sweet spot will be in/  I don't know much about these motors.  They look big, old-school, and perhaps much hungrier than newer can motors. 

Lee, I'm using the ERR AC Commander, it's rated for two AC motors, and I've used it in several conventional upgrades with no problems.  I thought about can motors, but since I already had all the parts for this upgrade, I figured that would solve the basic issue of no traction.

John, I look forward to reading more on your project. I too want more traction in my Phantom, it's horrible.

I also put a bunch of lead in the nose (1/2 lb+), that helped some.

It's also a power hungry pig.

It would pop the breaker on my Z-1000 with all the other stuff on the layout idling.

Nothing else ever popped that breaker (barring derailing), even my Imperial Big Boy pulling 58 cars including my PW stuff. (That consist filled my 9 x 33' main loop)

 

Second problem; It runs fast or not at all. I suspect the AC commander will help this as well. I have been tempted to gut it and use my PS2 upgrade kit on it but I would lose the sounds, don't like that idea.

Last edited by Russell
Originally Posted by gunrunnerjohn:
 

Lee, I'm using the ERR AC Commander, it's rated for two AC motors, and I've used it in several conventional upgrades with no problems.  I thought about can motors, but since I already had all the parts for this upgrade, I figured that would solve the basic issue of no traction.

Frankly, probably just the added weight of one of those big motors with their heavy magnetic core would do wonders for the loco's traction.  Two motors will make it awesome, I expect.  

 

Nice idea.  Fun project.  

 

"What talent lurks in the hearts of men?  That Phantom knows!"

Cool!
 
Originally Posted by gunrunnerjohn:
Originally Posted by MartyE:

Doesn't one of the trucks have the cherry switch Cam setup?  How is that overcome?

Yep, but I can put magnets on the wheel with a reed switch or use my motor speed sensing circuit to know when it's moving.  However, I have the Phantom III RS4 board, and it may not need the cherry switch, we'll see.  In any case, it's a minor issue, I'll get it working, I"m not letting that stop me!

Wrapped up work for today.  I couldn't resist hooking up the motor and seeing how it runs.  It's a puller now, what a difference!  I hooked it up to my track cleaner, my usual test subject, and it can start out slow and pull it without any slipping at all!  It's truly like a different locomotive, I can't imagine it having any issues pulling the cars now!  The ERR AC Commander in 100 step mode seems very smooth, I think this is a major update to the engine.

 

Now I can't wait to get the audio stuff in and it back together, I'm a happy camper!

 

To Marty's point, I did think of a small issue with the cam switch replacement.  All of the axles on this now have magnatraction, so that may preclude me using the original idea of magnets and a reed switch.  I'll probably have to drive it from the motor voltage if I need it.  If I need a toggling voltage, I'll probably put a little oscillator circuit across the motor field and drive the RS input with that.  We will overcome!

 

I'm heading over to Harry's tonight, I'm going to run it on the large layout and see if it'll pull a bunch of cars around the whole layout.  This seems like it'll be the silver bullet for the Phantom.

Last edited by gunrunnerjohn

Marty, the cam switch turns out not to be an issue.  I put the RS 2.5 chips in an RS4 board, and also dug out my Phantom III RS4 board.  Both ramp up the RPM in response to the serial input without any external cam switch.  Not only is it a non-problem, I have two different voices for my upgrade!  I think I'll put the Phantom III in first, it has a couple extra sounds with the cab-talk keys.

 

Originally Posted by Lee Willis:"Lamont Cranston"
Originally Posted by gunrunnerjohn:
 

Lee, I'm using the ERR AC Commander, it's rated for two AC motors, and I've used it in several conventional upgrades with no problems.  I thought about can motors, but since I already had all the parts for this upgrade, I figured that would solve the basic issue of no traction.

Frankly, probably just the added weight of one of those big motors with their heavy magnetic core would do wonders for the loco's traction.  Two motors will make it awesome, I expect.  

 

Nice idea.  Fun project.  

 

"What talent lurks in the hearts of men?  That Phantom knows!"

 

I also have the first version. Seems like I waited for YEARS for the passenger cars.

 

When they were coming out with newer Phantom versions, Lionel then made them with a traction tire. I sent for several of the newer trucks. I bought a second Phantom ( version 1 ) engine. I replaced the non-traction trucks with the traction ones. I then did a push - pull set up with an engine at front and rear.

 

It accomplishes what you've done but may have cost more. The 2nd engine cost me $168.00. I forget what the trucks cost. It was an easy swap.

 

Other than the dull interior lighting they move swiftly around my Atlas track.

Thanks guys, I hope this inspires a few people to dig out the old Phantom and give it a new lease on life.
 
Originally Posted by Lionel16:

John

 

What tool did you use to cut the hole in the chassis?

Believe it or not, I used a Dremel with a fiber cutoff wheel.  I marked a pattern for the hole, then rough-cut it with the Dremel and then finished it with a file.  I have a nibbling tool for metal, but the chassis was too thick.  I have the "industrial strength" Dremel 4000, it cut through the 16ga chassis steel like butter, I was suitably impressed!

 

I considered the truck replacement, but after looking at the options, this seemed like the easy route.  I got the motor and truck for free, and since I had a leftover AC Commander that's likely to rot in my parts box, I figured I could use it.

 

For anyone contemplating this upgrade, after closely looking at the LCRU2 & RS 2.5 board set, if you separate them, they would fit in between the motors, so if you have an old GP-9 powered truck around, the upgrade can be very cheap.

 

FWIW, I took this up to the club layout with Atlas track, it has no problem pulling a dozen diecast cars or five passenger cars around the layout.  The AC Commander also gives it excellent low speed performance, I was very impressed with how smoothly I could slowly run. 

 

I've already done some lighting enhancements to the locomotive, it got a red MARS light, LED headlight, and I even lit the turbine inlet with flickering blue LED's.  Now that it's clear that I'll be able to run this more, I'm going to add some cool lighting effects when the horn is blown, there are side light lenses that do nothing right now, that will change.  Then I'll look into some passenger car lighting upgrades.

Add Reply

Post

OGR Publishing, Inc., 1310 Eastside Centre Ct, Suite 6, Mountain Home, AR 72653
800-980-OGRR (6477)
www.ogaugerr.com

×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×
×