Increased American Models locomotive speed

How well does the locomotive run by itself?  I'm no DCC expert, but depending on the decoder, there may be a CV to set for maximum speed.

Also, the smoke unit and incandescent lamps in the passenger cars may be drawing a lot of the current.  The power supply output for the DCS50 is 2.5 amps.   You may need a more  powerful power supply.  If the Locomotive is OK, try adding one car at a time to see if that affects speed.

While DC, I know that seven AM Budd's and two AM E8's is about the maximum that my 3.0 amp DC power supply can handle.

Rusty

As expected, the loco runs reasonably fast by itself...certainly much faster than when pulling any of my cars. 

Digitrax Tech Support advised me that as a minimum, I should upgrade my control system by adding their DB210 booster and PS615 power supply, which would provide up to 5 amps to the rails. That's going to be a bit expensive [total list price: $228], but I guess I have no choice in the matter.

Thanks for your helpful guidance, Rusty.

How large is your loop, and how long does the consist take to complete a circuit?  It might be running faster than you think!

I remember the first time I ever saw the video feed from one of those camera cars, that provides an “engineer eye” perspective of the layout.  It looked like I was riding a roller coaster!  Bottom line, the top speed of the prototype is kind of irrelevant.  On a small layout with train set curves, 60 mph or even 45 scale mph is plenty fast.  What’s harder is getting smooth, realistic slow speed performance.

Bob G (WNY) posted:

As expected, the loco runs reasonably fast by itself...certainly much faster than when pulling any of my cars. 

Digitrax Tech Support advised me that as a minimum, I should upgrade my control system by adding their DB210 booster and PS615 power supply, which would provide up to 5 amps to the rails. That's going to be a bit expensive [total list price: $228], but I guess I have no choice in the matter.

Thanks for your helpful guidance, Rusty.

 

 

 

 

The good thing is the larger power supply and booster is a one-time investment.  I don't think you'll regret it.

I bought the MRC Prodigy system years ago along with the then available separate sale 10 amp booster.  Now, I know I'll never need all 10 amps, but it's nice to know it's there...

Ted S posted:

How large is your loop, and how long does the consist take to complete a circuit?  It might be running faster than you think!

 

I recall measuring an AM Budd car individually drawing about 1/2amp.  (I don't know about the domes, which use LED's, I never measured them) The current draw isn't quite linear when adding cars, but it does add up.

As I mentioned above, in DC operation, two motors and seven AM illuminated Budd cars are about the max my 3 amp DC throttle can take.  When I ran seven illuminated Budds with three SHS F7's, the train moved at a crawl and my throttle got very warm very quickly. 

Removing one of the F7's from the consist, everything was fine.  I then had a choice, run with two F7's or remove the lamps from the cars.  I chose to remove the incandescent lamps from the passenger cars.

Rusty

As Rusty said, maybe removing the incandescent lamps to see if it makes a difference, if so for a reasonable cost you can convert the cars to LED lighting, well under $200.00, l would venture less than $50.00 of your willing to build the circuit yourself.

Ray

I have three of those AM Pacifics, two of mine are converted to TMCC/Railsounds to run on Legacy. They pull 6 AM Budd cars around the layout with no issue. This includes some 2.2% grades. I will say that consist takes at least 4A to run well. I have 10A supplies to each of 8 independent power districts around the layout. I do not use DCC so I have no experience with it, but regardless of the decoder and its settings my experience suggests at least a 5A supply dedicated to that track is necessary. I have 14VAC on the track. If the DCC output voltage is much less than 14V it may cause problems when the engine is loaded.

Ted, my train is operating on a 40-inch-diameter X 6-foot-long FasTrack loop. The attached video clip will illustrate the top speed of my AM loco and its three-passenger car consist. 

It sounds like your loop is about 189" long.  In your ~10 second video, the train completes about 3/4 of the loop.  That works out to 51,000 inches per hour.  The "scale factor" for S-gauge is 64.  So it's actually travelling 3.3 million SCALE inches per hour.  This equates to 51.5 scale miles per hour.  

Think about how your passengers would feel... In real life, passenger trains only achieved those speeds where there were ample straightaways and gentle curves.  I guarantee if the loco were shoving a camera car into those curves at that speed, you would get dizzy watching the video.  If you want a little more speed, add voltage.   Also, make sure your passenger car axles turn freely and have one drop of lubricant on each bearing.

The American Models Pacifics are outstandingly well-engineered locos.  There is NOTHING in O gauge outside of Brass that compares.  If I could trade, I would.  Enjoy the realistic performance your loco has to offer!

Ted S posted:

It sounds like your loop is about 189" long.  In your ~10 second video, the train completes about 3/4 of the loop.  That works out to 51,000 inches per hour.  The "scale factor" for S-gauge is 64.  So it's actually travelling 3.3 million SCALE inches per hour.  This equates to 51.5 scale miles per hour.  

Think about how your passengers would feel... In real life, passenger trains only achieved those speeds where there were ample straightaways and gentle curves.  I guarantee if the loco were shoving a camera car into those curves at that speed, you would get dizzy watching the video.  If you want a little more speed, add voltage.   Also, make sure your passenger car axles turn freely and have one drop of lubricant on each bearing.

The American Models Pacifics are outstandingly well-engineered locos.  There is NOTHING in O gauge outside of Brass that compares.  If I could trade, I would.  Enjoy the realistic performance your loco has to offer!

It's a loop on a carpet around some furniture and an elf, not real life.  Even I, "Joe Scale Guy" likes to let 'er rip every now and then.  Very therapeutic...

I believe Bob's complaint it that is the maximum speed he can get right now, there is no more headroom.  Besides, S Scale (or any other scale for that matter) passengers tend to be very sedentary and pretty much unaffected by the laws of physics...

Besides, if that short train is taxing the output his power supply, he will eventually repeatedly blow its breaker or let its smoke out.

Rusty

Looks pretty normal to me .

      Bob G.

The AM Pacifics weren't meant to go that fast anyway, but the Budd cars draw a LOT of current with the light bulbs in them.   My set with six cars drew more than a small transformer could put out.  So I simply disconnected the wires on the trucks leading to the inside circuit.   Runs great, but no lights.  If I had the time, I'd convert the bulbs to LEDs.  Way too many projects now, including getting my PE to smoke again.  That one may be a lost cause, though.

By the way, Ron at American Models uses white lithium for axle lubrication. on these cars.   Just a LITTLE dab will do ya...

Something is not right with Bob's setup. I just ran my New Haven AM Pacific, converted to TMCC but otherwise all original pulling 6 AM Budd cars. I ran it on the upper loop, line 3, which is about 70' around the layout. I set the Legacy Cab 2 to 1/2 throttle, 14V on the track from a ZW-L. The ZW-L will provide 10A with no measurable voltage sag. The track is MTH nickle silver flex code 138. Minimum radius is 30" with superelevation and easements. The scale speed around the loop calculated to 105smph, it was really moving! I doubt the engine would stay on the rails at full throttle. And this is with a 14V setting, many people use the full 18V output from the ZW-L's but I find the incandescent bulbs get too hot and are too bright at 18V.

I replaced all the incandescent lights in the Budd cars with strips of LEDs. An AM Pacific pulling 6 Budd cars at 10 volts, which is very fast, draws 0.5 amperes of direct current. The headlight in the Pacific is still an incandescent bulb. An American Models E8 pulling the same cars at the same 10 volts draws the same amount of current but runs very slightly slower--still faster than any of the plastic figures in the cars finds comfortable. An ABBA consist of SHS F7s, all powered, draws 2 amps pulling the same cars. Their speed is much slower under Locomatic control at 10 or even 12 volts, but that speed is still a bit faster than realistic on my layout.

The LEDs in the passenger cars reduce the required current--and heat--significantly. Buck-boost modules keep the lighting uniform and steady no matter what speed the trains run, as long as the applied voltage is above 3.5 volts or so. The conversion to LEDs was worth the effort.

I am a former Lionel O guy who sold virtually all of those trains and got back into the hobby by purchasing a variety of S, HO, N, and OO trains...all of which have not yet been placed on a layout of any kind [indeed, most may never be].  I must have been "spoiled" by the childlike sensation of seeing my Lionel steam-, diesel-, and electric-motive power "fly" by with their respective consists at [admittedly unrealistic] breakneck speeds on long stetches of straight track.

The S FasTrack loop shown in the video clip was set up for the enjoyment of my daughter and son-in-law who live out of state and will be staying with us for a few days during the holidays. When I finally manage to clean out my 15-foot X 15-foot finished and carpeted basement Rec room, I'd like to construct a shelf-type permanent layout where I can fully "exercise" my AM DCC-equipped/modified K4- -chugging, with headlight blazing, smoke puffing, firepan glowing, bell ringing, whistle blowing- -pulling its full complement of six illuminated AM Budd cars [plus a matching observation car I plan to buy] on long straightaways and gentle curves [to the extent feasible, given the limited large-radii choices for curved track].

That all said, I'll opt for upgrading my Digitrax Zephyr system with an additional booster and increased amperage power supply. I found that Litchfield Station sells these components for considerably less than the Digitrax list price: $116 for the DB210 booster, $63 for the PS615 power supply, and $148 for the PS2012E power supply [which is the better long-term solution compared to the PS615 because it can provide up to 8 amps of power, rather than "only" 5 amps]. 

Don't forget the fact that there is a high speed worm & a low speed worm . Maybe this engine has a low speed worm . Was the  engine bought from AM or some induvial ?

 Bob G.

The low speed worm won't fit the Pacific's.

Rusty

I put the low speed worm in the B&O , The Southern Crescent & the engine pictured. Had to switch the shafts though . I switched them back as they were just too slow. 

  Bob G.

FYI, Bob Guckian: 

I bought my AM K4 hi-rail loco from Chick’s Hobby Center [http://chickshobbyshop.com/]; the DC to DCC conversion and other feature upgrades [including wireless tether] were done by the shop owner, Charles Viggiano. My unsolicited testimonial: Charles [Chick] did a great job and I absolutely love the way this loco & tender looks and performs- -it's better than any Lionel O product I ever owned and operated!

I think you will see a marked improvement with the power boost. There are a lotta lights eating power in that video.

let us know how it turns out.