Excellent analysis and thank you for all the photos!

Sounds like I may need to “void the warranty” on my engines when they arrive. Another forum poster reported getting a motor short fault code on their engine after powering it for the first time. Based on your analysis, it seems like pinched motor leads could be a common problem on these.

Wow! More quality build stuff! That blue wire laying right on the flywheel takes the cake....pathetic.

I don't know how anyone has the guts to preorder Lionel anymore.

@RickO posted:

I don't know how anyone has the guts to preorder Lionel anymore.

Well, so do I - but I have a Daylight pre-order coming sometime. Not impressed with the assembly but they may have rushed some of this production run out trying to make pre-Christmas delivery. I know that’s not an excuse.

Hats off to Dave for an impressive piece of engineering. Now all you guys have to do is get someone over to the factory to do some real quality control.

Good for you to do this Bruk. Maybe you know this already but if not could you verify with Dave if the new motor control board now has short circuit protection if the motor fails or in this case one of the leads shorts? Since they continue to use these Canon motors with their high failure rate it would be good to know if that will take out a board like it did with the RCMCs.

Pete

Gads, look at all those messy wires all over the place.  Why, a plate of spaghetti is more appetising!  Not for me guys.  I'll take a dish of "clean as can be" O scale live steam locomotives* anyday...LOL

No, the above statement isn't out of the Sunday funny papers.  Sorry, I just couldn't resist.

Enjoy your model railroad adventure.  Remember, you're a member of The World's Greatest Hobby.  It doesn't get any better than this!

Joe

* Bassett-Lowke spirit fired is understood.

@Norton posted:

Hats off to Dave for an impressive piece of engineering. Now all you guys have to do is get someone over to the factory to do some real quality control.

Good for you to do this Bruk. Maybe you know this already but if not could you verify with Dave if the new motor control board now has short circuit protection if the motor fails or in this case one of the leads shorts? Since they continue to use these Canon motors with their high failure rate it would be good to know if that will take out a board like it did with the RCMCs.

Pete

I'd like to know that too. It should not be the case that you have to wonder whether to open up an engine before you even put power to it to see whether a wire has been pinched and a short is likely. As on recent form Lionel won't have a lot of replacement parts on hand, I'd be worried that if a control board was shorted there'd be no fix available any time soon, if at all.

Yikes, that is scary. Well, I didn't order one, but still is scary considering this could be any or all engines having any or all of the issues shown. Not good at all.

Isn’t that a $2k locomotive?  Sheesh.

That's a real shame. 

The engineers that developed these packages should be taking notes from master builder Bruk, clearly he’s had to re-design a few things, and obviously repair a bunch of things, ......not only should Lionel NOT void his warranty for opening it up and saving the day, they should give him the labor hours as credit on his next parts purchase ....or something!...good grief!....great work Bruk, .....disaster averted,.....well done!..

Pat

Question,    was there a failure causing you to open it up?   Or curiosity?

@Alabama Joe posted:

Question,    was there a failure causing you to open it up?   Or curiosity?

Bruk can no doubt answer for himself, but I think that the explanation is in his earlier thread found here:

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...-4470-2031411-issues

Incidentally, I think that most or at least many of us benefit from these "look inside" postings, which were pioneered by @Alex M. Also from the input that comes direct from Dave O. at Lionel and Jon Z. (formerly of Lionel).

@Alabama Joe posted:

Question,    was there a failure causing you to open it up?   Or curiosity?

Curiosity,

Everything I get, I take apart. Its just how I am. I like to know what I’m working with so I can troubleshoot/fix it later. I also like to see how the “factory” lays things out.  

This goes for most things.

@Bruk posted:

Curiosity,

Everything I get, I take apart. Its just how I am. I like to know what I’m working with so I can troubleshoot/fix it later. I also like to see how the “factory” lays things out.  

This goes for most things.

Thanks for the reply.    

Wow what a breakdown! It's amazing what they cram in these expensive locomotives now. Guys they just need to get better on the execution end of things.

The pinched wires and the bad crimp are pretty clearly a rush thing. The board mounting too close to the drive might be a design issue.

I agree with Pat, Lionel should send Bruk a fancy thank you note and a check for his time. Just forward this series of photos to the factory supervisor in China. Before work tomorrow, the assembly team should spend one hour reviewing these photos and he implored to double check each of these points before closing up the loco shell.

@Bruk posted:

Curiosity,

Everything I get, I take apart. Its just how I am. I like to know what I’m working with so I can troubleshoot/fix it later. I also like to see how the “factory” lays things out.  

This goes for most things.

Perhaps this one Bruk, you might call it a preemptive strike,.....surely you were able fix things on your terms, and not when it would have been too late!....good save!....that could have been disastrous,....

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

Perhaps this one Bruk, you might call it a preemptive strike,.....surely you were able fix things on your terms, and not when it would have been too late!....good save!....that could have been disastrous,....

Pat

I’m glad I did,

That blue motor wire insulation was cut down enough to expose the wire inside.  I guarantee at some point it would have ground to the frame or motor bracket.

I'm a big taken back by the continuing QC issues for what could have been an outstanding release!  The pinched wires I see way too often opening up newer Legacy stuff.

FWIW, I'm planning on taking any locomotive with that crappy Canon motor apart and adding a PTC in series with the motor.  One with a 2-3A trip rating would probably be a pretty good choice.  They'll pass 3-4 amps for quite a while, more than enough for any normal operation, but they'll trip very fast on a really high 7-8 amps, which just may save the board when the Canon motor croaks!

Belfuse 0ZRP0135FF1A from Digikey would be a good first choice for the PTC.

@RickO posted:

Wow! More quality build stuff! That blue wire laying right on the flywheel takes the cake....pathetic.

I don't know how anyone has the guts to preorder Lionel anymore.

I will give them the benefit of the doubt, that no one was able to go over and “double check” the progress with production in general because of the pandemic and travel restrictions.....