Installing Cruise Commander in K Line K4

To add to my original post, it appears the white wire is for the serial data "out" connection at the R2LC.

I'd just trace the wires and ring out to the R2LC socket to see which pin they are connecting to.  I know that some of the K-Line stuff generated the chuff from the cruise board, so one could be the chuff.

Note that K-Line didn't use the PWM outputs from the R2LC on their cruise board, so you're going to have to wire them yourself as the CC-M will need them.  There is probably an unused 4-pin connector on the mother board that has those outputs on it.

You won't need these wires, the sensor is unused for the CC-M.

You don't need this wire either, just remove it.

Dumb question, why are you replacing the K-Line cruise?  The 4.0 version is generally a pretty good performing unit.

I've been out of town all week for work, so there's been no time work on my project until now.

The only part I'm confused on is the black wire that terminates in the 4-pin JSP connector.

When I ring this wire out, it has continuity with pins 1, 2, 3 & 4 o the R2LC.  I'm thinking I now longer need this wire.  Anyone know what this wire is supposed to be used for?

Electric railroad provides a 4-pin socket that plugs into the R2LC for PWM outputs and 5 volts DC.

I'm replacing the K-line cruise board, because I've had issues with these overheating.  I'm on the 3rd one!

Well, it doesn't have continuity with all the pins mentioned as 1&2 are track power and 3&4 are frame ground!  What is the 4-pin JSP connector?

FWIW, I can't imagine why you'd need it.  You need the four pin signal cable with the white connector, the four pin power cable with the black connector, and the ten pin white connector with one wire in pin-1 to R2LC serial data, pin-24.

John, tested out the locomotive today with the new board, everything worked great.  I left out the afforementioned wire, did not create any issues.  

I also plan to install your chuff generator in the locomotive.  Can pin 19 on the R2LC supply 5 volts D.C. to the board, or do I really need to build a voltage regulator circuit that can supply enough power?

The R2LC supplies power to the opto-isolators for the PWM inputs on the CC-M, so I'd not try to task it with the load of the Chuff-Generator as well, it'll probably over work it.  Why not install the Super-Chuffer as well, it supplies the power for the Chuff-Generator, and it gives you great smoke chuffing and idle smoke as well.  The Rule-17 headlight and cab light control are icing on the cake.

I might just do that.  But that presents another question, my engine uses a mechanical-type smoke unit, so it will need replaced.  What is the part number for a MTH fan smoke unit that can replace the existing one?  How easy is to mount an MTH unit in a K line k-4?

Nick, I thought you had a fan driven smoke unit.  I use the MTH AA-0000070 Steam smoke unit with the short posts.  I make a 1/16" thick small plate that mounts where the existing smoke unit mounts and screw the smoke unit to that one.  For most of the standard vertical puffers in K-line, the brass cup on the smoke unit can be lined right up with the stack that way.  The fit for the screws is close, so I end up grinding a little of the frame posts and the smoke unit posts to clear the screw heads.  I could use countersunk screws, just never seem to have them when I need them.

John,

Wanted to touch base with you about the super chuffer before I install it.   Pin 5, the chuff input switch, I believe I need to splice into the wire I am running from the chuff generator over to the R2LC board.  

I am using the existing TMCC sound package in the K-line K4. Do I need to hook up J2, the chuff switch output? 

The headlight in the Pennsy K4 is a grain of wheat bulb I believe.    Will I need to run the H1 ( headlight ckt) through a transistor to drive the headlight

Lionel16 posted:

John,

Wanted to touch base with you about the super chuffer before I install it.   Pin 5, the chuff input switch, I believe I need to splice into the wire I am running from the chuff generator over to the R2LC board.  

Yes, just connect that to the C-G chuff output that goes to the R2LC motherboard.

 

I am using the existing TMCC sound package in the K-line K4. Do I need to hook up J2, the chuff switch output? 

No, the audio chuff is taken care of using the serial data that already goes to the tender sound package, nothing else to do.

 

The headlight in the Pennsy K4 is a grain of wheat bulb I believe.    Will I need to run the H1 ( headlight ckt) through a transistor to drive the headlight

You should replace it with a single LED if you want to use the Rule-17 lighting output of the Super-Chuffer.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Lionel16 posted:

John,

The headlight in the Pennsy K4 is a grain of wheat bulb I believe.    Will I need to run the H1 ( headlight ckt) through a transistor to drive the headlight

You should replace it with a single LED if you want to use the Rule-17 lighting output of the Super-Chuffer.

Any recommendations for a LED that will fit into the K4 Headlight lens?

 

I just use a flangeless 3mm warm white LED.  If you don't have flangeless ones, just file the flange off until it fits into the plastic lens.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

 I use the MTH AA-0000070 Steam smoke unit with the short posts.  

AA-0000070 - Is that the correct part #?

Thanks.

Search is broken on the MTH site and has been for some time.

Thanks.

I plan to do a K-line Mike and Hudson when the weather brings me back indoors...  

If they fit as well as described in you post above with a spacer, it simplifies the job. 

-Jim

It's not really a "spacer", it's actually a mount that just offsets the posts a bit.  It's interesting to assemble it, you have to first screw the smoke unit to the mounting plate.  You have to take the smoke unit apart as the fan chamber gets in the way of the next step.  Next, you screw the mounting plate to the frame where the puffer was attached.  Finally, you can reassemble the smoke unit and you're done.  I don't know if I mentioned it, but you also need the AA-0000102 Brass Cup that screws into the top of the smoke unit.  The brass cup nicely mates with the K-Line stack projection inside the shell.

Here's the smoke unit mounted in a K-Line chassis, the fiberglass plate is my "mounting plate".  As you can see, the posts of the smoke unit are close to the mounting on the chassis.  Also note the curved cutout for the smoke motor, that's required so everything fits. You can also see that the screw on the other side of the smoke unit is under the whole smoke unit, that's why I have to take the PCB and smoke fan chamber off to secure the smoke unit.

You can see the post that I've ground away, however this one was the wrong post!  I didn't realize that I was working on the wrong one until I got ready to mount it.  No harm done, I just had to do the other post, you just grind close to the threaded hole, but not into it.

I've always meant to make a drawing of the dimensions of that plate, but I always forget in the heat of the moment when doing an upgrade.

Thanks.  

That detail is great.  So it provides an offset for the smoke unit to line up with the stack.

I you have the occasion to "make a drawing of the dimensions of that plate" before I get to my projects, I would be grateful.

It this typical for  the K-Line Mikado & Hudson?

Thanks.

-Jim

I've done a few K-Line steamers with puffers, all of them had the same configuration.  There is also a totally different smoke unit in some K-Line steam, nothing like the Lionel style puffer.  The one on the left probably looks like what you have, the one on the right is used in some of them, clearly it requires different mounting.

Right and left showed up as top & bottom...

I have not opened them up yet, but the top looks "Lionel" style.  The bottom configuration  looks bizarre.

Funny - on a different computer they are now left and right...

The formatting of the message is dependent on the page width, it varies depending on what you view it on.  The long smoke unit has a piston that pumps out the smoke.  Although they obviously don't have 4-chuffs/rev, those smoke units pump out a nice looking puff of smoke, much better than the little Lionel style units.  The arm sticking out to the right is connected to a geared wheel from the drive wheels to operate the pumping action.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

 

Here's the smoke unit mounted in a K-Line chassis, the fiberglass plate is my "mounting plate".  

 

 

John,

Where do  you order the fiber glass plate from?

I make them out of 1/16" fiberglass sheet.  Every time I do one I vow to remember to make a pattern to make it easier the next time, and when I'm actually cutting one out, I don't get around to it.

I am looking for a wire harness like this one used to secure wires inside of a K-line engine shell.

The glue on those is lousy, so I typically removed the DS foam tape and glue them to the chassis with CA adhesive, then put the wires in.

Do you know any outfits that may sell clips similar to these?  I would to have some on hand for future projects?

Lots of places sell cable clamps.  For example...

100 Pcs Black Plastic Wire Tie Rectangle Cable Mount Clip Clamp Self-adhesive TS, eBay: 172255252119, $2.24 shipped free.

Howdy John,

 First, I love the new "Digs".   That is gonna be an AWESOME train room.   Good for you!   Second, I've been reading this post with great interest and would like to ask for some advice regarding an upgraded smoke unit and installing a Super-Chuffer in my Lionel J-1A 2-10-4 TMCC (6-28078).  I'm definitely not trying to High-Jack this thread, however, the topic is similar to what I have been considering so I thought I would jump in.  Basically, I need a fan driven Smoke Unit recommendation (the factory smoke unit currently employed is mechanical) and if the Super-Chuffer will be compatible with this set up.  I will be attending York on Thursday and Friday and hopefully be able to purchase the necessary components while I'm there.  Any help and/or suggestions will be appreciated and thank you in advance.

 Chief Bob (Retired)

Bob, I personally use MTH smoke units for upgrades most of the time, they are a bit smaller and I don't need the regulator that's on the Lionel unit.  However, anything that will fit mechanically will work.  Whatever fan driven smoke unit you have, the Super-Chuffer will be happy with.

John,

I finally found some time this past week to convert the smoke unit in my K-line K-4.  I am wondering the size of screw that threads into the mounting posts of the MTH fan driven smoke unit?  Also, was told by MTH the AA-000102 brass cups are currently on back order.  Do you know any parts dealers that may have a few for sale?

I can tell you that the screws are Metric #3m and I don't know where you get the brass cups.  I order them whenever they have them in stock but I currently have more smoke units than brass cups, so I'm not selling any of them.

Nick, I now see where you get all of your technical info from, the "Wizard" himself Gunny John. Thanks for posting, it's very informative. Thank you for your info as well Gunny, this made for a great post.

Hey puffer belly, when you get started doing your J1a, please share some pictures, as I have one of the same engines, and have wanted to do what you are doing for a long time, just lost a lot of interest........Thanks again Nick, and see you at the Club...........Brandy! 

Yes, John is the best!  We are very fortunate to have such a knowledgeable individual on this forum. 

Thank you so much John.

STOP, I can't take it!