Installing Electric Rail Road Co. Kits

I have installed a number of the Cruise Commander and Cruise Commander M kits. The basic install is very easy. By far the most time I end up spending is customizing the lighting. Steamers are usually more difficult than diesels, simply because there's less room.

A basic install can be done in an hour or so. It's literally only a few wires. One issue with steamers that you want to consider is the antenna for the Cruise Commander. Most factory installs use the handrails of the engine, but they have to be insulated, and for a conventional engine, that might not be the case. If the antenna is a problem in the engine, I usually install the whole works in the tender and isolate the tender shell if it's metal, and use that as the antenna.

If you install the Railsounds Commander for sound, you just connect the speaker, plug in the RS signal connector. The one difficult part of a steamer installation will be getting the chuff switch working, that's dependent on what's already in the locomotive and the exact model. The kit includes a tiny magnet and a reed switch to put on a wheel.

The cruise works very well, you won't be disappointed in the performance.

What is the exact model of the locomotive? Is it one that is claimed to be "TMCC Upgradable".

Thanks, great advice. The engine is a Lionel Mikado #6-18030 from the early 1990's I think. I have no way of knowing if it is TMCC ready as Lionel won't list info on this old an engine on their website. Mike

Mike, I may have some bad news for you. Your Mikado is from 1993 and I believe it has a field-wound motor in it and not a can motor. Cruise control cannot be added to a field-wound motor, it only works with the DC can motors that are in nearly all current 3-rail locomotives.

Steammike:

I Googled the Lionel 6-18030 model number, and a listing on E-bay came up. The listing number is as follows 130551131646. The pictures and description with the listing show a good shot off the end flap of the box. It shows all the features of the engine. One of the features listed on the box is a POWERFULL MOTOR THAT CAN RUN ON AC OR DC CURRENT. It does not say if it is a can type motor or not. Hope this helps.

Good luck with your upgrade.
Vic

Owners "manual" is available on line. Unit has a DCRU and original RailSounds. This engine predates TMCC. It probably has a can motor. It also uses a tether between the loco and the tender. Not sure if you can preserve the sounds if you install a newer TMCC board. These boards were designed to work with RS 2.5 and beyond.

The bad news is that if it's the Pulmore motor, no cruise. Now, if you have the AC motor, you can still use the AC Commander and RailSounds, you just won't have cruise. I've put that rig into a couple of diesels, and I'm going to put it into an old 2026 that I've painted, it's somewhere in the queue.

I searched for that number, and Lionel just comes up with an operators manual for a locomotive with Railsounds and an electronic E-Unit. That would indicate it's probably a DC motor. Is this the Lionel 6-18030 Frisco 2-8-2 Mikado Steam Loco & Tender numbered 4100? Before you order anything, you might want to see what's installed. It could be one of the TMCC upgradable units. Does it have a tether between the locomotive and the tender?

Edit: I see Chuck may have shot down the using the old Railsounds.

Yes, it's real easy to install. Just watch to make sure you don't allow any of the components on the circuit boards touch any metal or it will short it out and probably will burn it out. I installed a Cruise commander in my Williams 773 Hudson (DC can motor) and it really helps it's running. If your 2-8-2 has a can motor, then the cruise commander is definitely the way to go.

I am thinking about upgrading my Lionel PRR 2-8-0 with ERR cruise and adding a cherry switch for 4 chuffs. In addition, I would like to add a functional front coupler, but it does not have to be remote. I would really like to do it myself but a youtube primer would really be required for me to tackle the job.

quote:

Lionel Mikado #6-18030

I have the Southern 4501 mikado from '92 which is the same engine. They have a huge can motor. All the electronics are in the tender, mine had a QSI reverse board. These were made in Korea under Mike Wolf's supervision.
I tossed all the original boards and installed a Cruise Commander and RS4 boards in the tender. I re-used the hall effect sensor on the tender truck for chuff and the 4 pin tether for AC in and motor DC out. I insulated the tender shell and it is the antenna for TMCC. The engine runs perfectly now and sounds terrific. A worthy engine for a pretty expensive upgrade

Neil

quote:

Originally posted by SantaFe158:
Yes, it's real easy to install. Just watch to make sure you don't allow any of the components on the circuit boards touch any metal or it will short it out and probably will burn it out. I installed a Cruise commander in my Williams 773 Hudson (DC can motor) and it really helps it's running. If your 2-8-2 has a can motor, then the cruise commander is definitely the way to go.

IMO, anytime you have a can motor, the Cruise Commander is the best choice. It's not that much more money if you're upgrading to TMCC/Railsounds, silly not to go all the way.

Another antenna trick in coal-burning steamers is to hollow out a "U" shape in the coal pile, lay in a copper wire, connect it to the antenna lead inside the tender, and cover the "U" with loose coal glued down.
Nice trick from the was-the-3rd-Rail Tech who since retired. He was GOOD!

How does that work if the "coal" is just part of the shell casting?

In the manual for the 'Mini Commander', it's mentioned that a CAB-1 is necessary to program a 'SET' button. In looking through the manual for the AC/DC Commander, I don't recall seeing any such requirement mentioned.

The reason this stuck out as I read the manuals is, I currently have DCS with a separate-sale Command base hooked to it (it was easier to find one of those than a CAB-1). I'm planning on an upgrade program to bring many of my conventional locomotives into command compatibility and decided on ERR boards for my non-MTH locomotives, but I don't currently have a CAB-1.

I'm quite sure I can do the installation of one of the DC Commanders myself (a Williams Genesis being my first candidate)--even fabricate a board/antenna bracket if necessary/convenient/just plain neater-looking. But will I find myself at an impasse due to the lack of a CAB-1? I see there is no mention of a "SET" button in the DC Commander manual, but there is a 'feature code' on page 7 that "must be done!" after setting the engine ID number. Can that be accomplished with the DCS remote?

---PCJ

On page 7 step 5

5. Press [SET] (the engine ID is saved until you need to change it again)

Bill

What of Step 6, the one that sets the "common feature" outputs to either a smoke unit, strobe light, or cab/marker light?

The manual specifies that entering an [AUX][0-8] is necessary once you set the engine ID (at least for the first time you do it), before putting the PROG/RUN switch back to RUN position. While I've set engine ID's for a number of TMCC units using my DCS controller, I haven't done anything that requires entering AUX codes yet (I don't have my remote or DCS manual handy at the moment).

[Edit:]
Glancing back at the manual, I notice that the feature code differs according to whether the unit is equipped is steam or diesel, equipped with Railsounds or Signalsounds modules. My first upgrade project won't involve adding any sounds (this would be going in a Williams Genesis, so no appropriate GE+Amtrak horn sounds are available), so is the feature code even relevant to my case?

---PCJ

If you can program engine numbers with the DCS controller, you should be able to enter the aux codes as well. You have to use the "set" button on the CAB-1 or Legacy controller to program engine numbers too.

For no sounds, I always just program RailSounds, the feature code still has an effect on the motion.

quote:

Originally posted by RailRide:
What of Step 6, the one that sets the "common feature" outputs to either a smoke unit, strobe light, or cab/marker light?

The manual specifies that entering an [AUX][0-8] is necessary once you set the engine ID (at least for the first time you do it), before putting the PROG/RUN switch back to RUN position. While I've set engine ID's for a number of TMCC units using my DCS controller, I haven't done anything that requires entering AUX codes yet (I don't have my remote or DCS manual handy at the moment).

[Edit:]
Glancing back at the manual, I notice that the feature code differs according to whether the unit is equipped is steam or diesel, equipped with Railsounds or Signalsounds modules. My first upgrade project won't involve adding any sounds (this would be going in a Williams Genesis, so no appropriate GE+Amtrak horn sounds are available), so is the feature code even relevant to my case?

---PCJ

Also on page 7



Why is it necessary to set the Feature Code?
The Cruise Commander uses the serial data from the R2LC receiver to detect the throttle
settings. This serial data signal is dependent on the feature code. If this is not properly set,
the loco will not respond to throttle commands and may even enter into conventional mode
and rocket down the rails! Additionally, features like the smoke unit will not operate until
the feature code is set. It is always a good idea to know your loco feature codes for proper
operation of smoke/strobe/cab/marker lighting effects. This is true of your entire TMCC
loco stable.

quote:

How does that work if the "coal" is just part of the shell casting?

I've added real coal to all my steamers that came with molded in coal loads, so lay a thin layer to insulate, run the wire then cover with coal. I can tell you the coal loads I've done on some MTH RailKIng Steamers make a dramatic improvement to the overall appearance to the entire engine.

I have been following this topic for reasons similar to RailRIde. I installed the ERR AC Commander in the newer conventional Fairbanks Morris Virginian with pulmore motors.
As Railride has stated his problem seems to be my problem. On page 7 I am unable to set the step #6 feature code. I can program and SET the engine just fine. But, when I Try to use AUX1 I am unable to enter a numerical value (in this case a 6) because the Legacy screen is now displaying the specific engine information. Can someone assist me as to how I can enter the feature code?
I have wondered if the generic diesel module somehow has provided that information??

Now my second question may somehow be tied to the above. When test running the upgraded engine, one motor will run noticeably slower than the other until the throttle is cranked up considerably (Momentum is set at 1). When I reverse directions the opposite happens. The once faster motor now runs slower and the former slower motor now runs faster. In EACH case the slower running motor is always the one facing the direction being traveled.

Gentlemen...you comments most appreciated!
Wes Drummond

quote:

Originally posted by Wes Drummond:


Now my second question may somehow be tied to the above. When test running the upgraded engine, one motor will run noticeably slower than the other until the throttle is cranked up considerably (Momentum is set at 1). When I reverse directions the opposite happens. The once faster motor now runs slower and the former slower motor now runs faster. In EACH case the slower running motor is always the one facing the direction being traveled.

Gentlemen...you comments most appreciated!
Wes Drummond

This may be a mechanical problem, not electrical. Some of the newer Conventional Classic engines were assembled with a washer placed between the motor and the frame. The washer should be located under the frame above the truck. If its wrong the wheel flanges will rub on the frame slowing it down and also causing the engine to draw excessive current overheating the motor driver board.

Pete

quote:

Originally posted by Wes Drummond:
On page 7 I am unable to set the step #6 feature code. I can program and SET the engine just fine. But, when I Try to use AUX1 I am unable to enter a numerical value (in this case a 6) because the Legacy screen is now displaying the specific engine information. Can someone assist me as to how I can enter the feature code?

Just push the key that corresponds to #6, or switch to CAB-1 emulation for the setup and the numbers will remain. Either works.

Thanks for the info on my diesel upgrade questions. Pete the washer situation did not apply in my case. But thanks for your comment.
Gunrunnerjohn's approach for adding my AUX1 code 6 worked fine. I did chose to use the CAB-1 emulation and the engine accepted the code. Thanks again.
Now the more interesting aspect concerning the motor speeds is this: Running under CAB-1 the loco responded much better but still had some lag in movement. When I switched it back to TMCC the problem was much more evident always (as before) requiring a couple of presses of the Boost control to get the loco moveing.
I switched back to CAB-1 and will run it that way.
This is new engine and I will put it through a breakin period to see if this solves or lessens the mtor speed disparity.

Wes

How does the locomotive run in conventional mode? Does it still have the same lag with one motor?

GUnurunnerjohn, I fianlly had an opportunity to check the diesel caonventionally.
The same motor lag is there. It stymies me why the the slowest running motor is always the one facing the direction the loco is headed!

It seems now as if a return to Lionel must occur.

Wes Drummond

I have noticed that some trucks seem to run better in one direction. I had an MTH locomotive that has that issue, and I even took the trucks out and ran them by themselves with just a diode on the pickup powering the motor. They consistently ran faster in one direction, very weird. I ended up shimming the motors on the trucks to correct it, but I don't know exactly what the issue was. I didn't see any obvious wear on any of the gears.

thanks for all the help.
Will go for the Lionel tech support.

i am thoroughly incapable of doing ERR install.  is there anyone (repair shop) who does these?

Boxcar Bill does the installations, and from what I see on his site, his prices are very reasonable.  Here's his website: Modern Toy Train Parts

Cruise Commander W/R2LC

 

Originally Posted by gunrunnerjohn:

 

The R2LC is part of the Cruise Commander kit, it's the Lionel TMCC Receiver board. 

I too am interested in this conversation as I am going to be using some mini commanders in a couple of MTH signalman cars.  According to the information I received you have to have either a cab 1 or legacy to set up the mini commanders the first time and then after that they can be controlled by the dcs remote.

I'm led to believe that in order to do configuration of the mini-commander, you need a TMCC rig, but for operation after configuration, you can use the MTH DCS system.

You need a TMCC Command base connected to the TIU with a DCS adapter cable to control any TMCC item with DCS. I don't know if you need a cab1 to set mini-commanders up but I think you can relay all TMCC commands thru the adapter cable to the base using the DCS controller.

Someone mentioned issues actually setting up addresses, but since I don't have DCS, that's just what I heard...

Railride were you able to set up your electric RR conversion without a Cab-1. I have a Chicago & Alton Lionel steamer that is the only non command engine I have. I have strictly DCS setup but I have the command base and in reading online ac commander manual it does state you need a Cab-1 to program engine. It looked like you were able to get around this.

 

Ran across this thread by accident searching for something else.

 

No, I haven't gotten past the feature-code question. I was waiting for an answer before buying my first AC/DC Commanders. At this point, it looks like I may have to buy a Legacy setup just to program the feature code, as I don't hold out much hope of finding a CAB-1 at this point in time (and nobody seems to know if you can set it under DCS).

 

---PCJ

Have you posted this on the DCS forum? Barry the DCS guru would know about how to send the codes if it is possible.

Neil

Railride

The simple answer is you can not use the dcs remote to set up any of the feature codes. you must have tmcc or legacy to set the engine up first and once set up the dcs controller will run it.

The CAB1/command base deals appear fairly regularly both in the for-sale forum here and on eBay, so you can certainly score one of those if you're a bit patient.