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Hello, I am installing a super chuffer 2 and a chuff generator in my TMCC M1A 6-38056.  this will be my first time doing the install myself. I have 2 different wiring diagrams that I am looking at, one has a relay and the other does not show the relay. Can anyone help steer me in the right direction here. I watched a video that Sid released and he removed the regulator from that locomotive. Should I be doing the same?

I guess to me the directions are not that clear when installing both units. My current smoke unit has an 8 ohm resistor installed, I do have 27ohm replacements here.

I did a search on the forum but, I did not find the answers I was looking for. Sorry if this has been asked and answered.

Thank you in advance.

Fred

Last edited by Fred M
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Fred,

It has, although this covers the original Super Chuffer with the Chuff Generator:

     Has anybody done this installation? (6/2/18) | SantaFe158

There's a video that looks like it might be be very helpful in any case.

Remember: Forum "Search" is your friend.  Just type in the string "Super Chuffer Chuff Generator" in the box 'Contains all of these words'.

Mike

Last edited by Mellow Hudson Mike

The super chuffer & the chuff generator have nothing to do with the actual smoke resistor itself. You are still relying on the radio board to provide current to supply the resistor. John’s equipment provides the chuff, & the pulse of the fan motor. Although they both work in unison with the radio board, both the super chuffer, & the chuff generator are “divorced” stand alone systems. You will definitely want to bypass the smoke regulator. This will require a little more additional wiring, and then you can remove the regulator altogether. Driving the smoke resistor straight from the radio board, via a cut off switch, is best. you can use a 20-27 ohm resistor for this practice. …..clear as mud, right??…..😉

Pat

Here's a diagram of the Super-Chuffer and Chuff-Generator in a generic steamer without a voltage regulator.  Let me know exactly what part of the wiring you're having issues with and we'll get you sorted out.

This diagram shows the optional lighting feature in use, if you don't want to wire those, you can leave those out.

<---click on graphic to expand--->

Super-Chuffer II & Chuff Generator Example

FWIW, I agree with Pat, if you're having any problem with the smoke AC regulator, I'd lose it.  The Super-Chuffer works equally well with or without the AC regulator in the picture.  Also, if you take note, the actual powering of the smoke resistor has nothing to do with the function of the Super-Chuffer, the only connection to it is the sense line to pin-9 to allow the Super-Chuffer to know when the smoke is enabled.

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Last edited by gunrunnerjohn

Thank you for the replies, I am not having a problem yet. I was just confused as to what way to install the units, with or without the use of the regulator. Without makes more sense to me. so if I understand this correctly, I just come off the smoke switch and run that wire to pin 9 and the power side of the smoke element. I also change the element to 27ohm. Is this correct? Thank you all for the information, I was unable to find any threads showing the removal of the regulator.

Last edited by Fred M

Removing the regulator is a bit more complicated than that.

Here's the motherboard that's in your locomotive.  You need to remove the existing power feed that goes through the smoke switch and rewire the source of power to the smoke switch from the Smoke Unit Hot-#1 pin shown in the diagram below.  From the smoke switch you wire directly to the hot side of the smoke element, and the other side goes to frame ground, which it should already be connected to.  All the other leads going to the smoke AC regulator need to be removed and insulated.  And yes, you need to change the resistor from the 8 ohm to one that's at least 20 ohms or more.  I normally use 20 ohms as I like as much smoke from my steamers as possible.

__MB

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  • __MB

Once again, Thank you for the help. I finished the install thus afternoon with excellent results. I still have to tidy up the wiring but I didn't want to get ahead of myself. I will have to tweak the chuff just a bit but I have no complaints for my first install. Here is a quick video on the test track. Please ignore the TV in the background,  moma was watching a movie. Thanks again everyone,

Fred

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20230402_190517

This is all great information.  I just recently purchased the Super Chuffer 2 and the smoke generator boards.  I’m installing it in a 6-38055 Sante Fe Northern.  It has the smart smoke unit in it.  The smoke unit puffs intermittently after running awhile.  I watched some videos that said you can remove the AC regulator and install a 27 ohm resistor also. Is the AC regulator the little board in heat shrink tucked under the smoke unit?

Thanks Jim

@James Jones posted:

This is all great information.  I just recently purchased the Super Chuffer 2 and the smoke generator boards.  I’m installing it in a 6-38055 Sante Fe Northern.  It has the smart smoke unit in it.  The smoke unit puffs intermittently after running awhile.  I watched some videos that said you can remove the AC regulator and install a 27 ohm resistor also. Is the AC regulator the little board in heat shrink tucked under the smoke unit?

Thanks Jim

Jim, the AC Regulator has either four or five leads, the extra lead is an extra ground.  If it has a brown wire, brown/black striped wire, red wire, and one or two black wires, that's the smoke regulator.  There is also a 5V regulator module that was used to beef up the 5VDC for the DCDS in that locomotive, don't confuse the two.

For the best smoke, I use a 20 ohm resistor, it's the lowest I recommend you go for the direct connect to avoid overloading the R2LC smoke triac.  Obviously, there's no problem using higher values if you don't want as much smoke.

@James Jones posted:

This is all great information.  I just recently purchased the Super Chuffer 2 and the smoke generator boards.  I’m installing it in a 6-38055 Sante Fe Northern.  It has the smart smoke unit in it.  The smoke unit puffs intermittently after running awhile.  I watched some videos that said you can remove the AC regulator and install a 27 ohm resistor also. Is the AC regulator the little board in heat shrink tucked under the smoke unit?

Thanks Jim

James,

I'm guessing you bypassed all the electronics on the smoke unit semi smart circuit board?  Did you do this by cutting the traces?

@DaveGG posted:

James,

I'm guessing you bypassed all the electronics on the smoke unit semi smart circuit board?  Did you do this by cutting the traces?

Why would you cut the traces? The fan motor plugs into the board- don't plug it in- wire the super chuffer II to the fan motor- completely bypassing the electronics because nothing is connected.

It got a fan control section and then simply traces to the heater. It does NOT in any way know or care or modulate or regulate the heater resistor. It only provided for a regulated and controlled 5V fan output. You are no longer using that circuit- so again zero need to cut ANY trace.

cs-6308030200-p
FAN DRIVEN SMOKE UNIT / RECTANGULAR / DSL / 8 OHM

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...LOCO-ONLY-6308056001

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Last edited by Vernon Barry
@James Jones posted:

This is all great information.  I just recently purchased the Super Chuffer 2 and the smoke generator boards.  I’m installing it in a 6-38055 Sante Fe Northern.  It has the smart smoke unit in it.  The smoke unit puffs intermittently after running awhile.  I watched some videos that said you can remove the AC regulator and install a 27 ohm resistor also. Is the AC regulator the little board in heat shrink tucked under the smoke unit?

@DaveGG posted:

James,

I'm guessing you bypassed all the electronics on the smoke unit semi smart circuit board?  Did you do this by cutting the traces?

Again, even on a semi-smart smoke unit, the circuit on the board is just being bypassed when you simply wire the fan motor to the super chuffer II fan output.

I repeat, even on this unit, you simply no longer connect the fan directly to the fan output on the smoke unit PCB, instead, the 2 fan wires go to the super chuffer II for control- per it's manual and diagram.

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@James Jones posted:

Thanks guys,  I haven’t had time to start on it yet.  I will however wire the fan to the Super Chuffer and wire the smoke wires  to the smoke resistor tracers on the PCB.  I will have questions during the install.

As mentioned, no need to do anything with the circuitry on the smart smoke, it won't be in the picture when the installation is done.  FWIW, I do disconnect the unused wires from the smoke unit and just leave the ground and smoke voltage to the connector, but it's just me being anal I suspect.

I had a few of these that were cooked beyond repair, so I created a replacement PCB that's designed for Super-Chuffer use.  I did them for the standard smoke unit and one that fits the two-part tank for the smart smoke.

A Replacement for the Smart Smoke PCB for Super-Chuffer Upgrades

DIY Rectangular Smoke Unit Replacement PCB

Smoke Replacement PCB's

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  • Smoke Replacement PCB's

You don't have to alter any of the stuff that's already there, leave it as is.  I'd remove that sleeve from the smoke resistor, and make sure the smoke resistor is an 8 ohm and not a 6 ohm.  Other than that, the Super-Chuffer and Chuff-Generator is going to add to what's there.  You will be disconnecting the smoke motor from the smoke PCB as it is controlled by the Super-Chuffer.  You will also be removing the connection to the chuff cherry switch as that function is performed by the Chuff-Generator.

@James Jones posted:

I have already replaced the resistor with a 27 ohm in the smoke unit.  I was have problems with the smoke unit not chuffing well after running awhile.  What causes that.  I was trying to install it like the wiring diagram.

If you have the smoke regulator, replacing the resistor with a 27 ohm resistor will yield almost no smoke!  The smoke regulator was designed around a 6 to 8 ohm resistor.  Eventually they discovered that the 6 ohm resistor was cooking the regulators even faster than normal and recommended a change to the 8 ohm resistor all around.

As for no chuffing of the smoke unit, does the sound still chuff?

I’m in the process of installing it.  I just only have the wires soldered to the boards.  The boards are not installed or connected to anything yet.  I have not cut or disconnected any factory wires yet.  The only thing I have done is rebuilt the smoke unit with a 27 ohm element.  The problem it was having was from factory circuits.  It would miss chuffs or weak chuffs but the sound was fine.  The response I’ve seen say to remove the regulator and install the 27 ohm resistor.  I do want to install the Super Chuffer and smoke generator since I want smoke at idle and 4 chuffs per revolution.

Jim

Ok, thanks I will do that.  I just ordered replacement 8 ohm resistors.  So then you leave the existing element circuit plugged in the PCB and tap into the smoke circuit after the switch to tie into the Super Chuffer.  Then take the chuff in and run to the Super Chuffer and Generator,  and attach the fan to the Super Chuffer.  How do you know which wire from the cherry switch is chuff in? Does one read to frame or wheels?

Jim

Hi,  I just installed the Super Chuffer and smoke Generator boards in my 6-38055 Sante Fe Northern.   Got the chuffs set for 4 per revolution and that part works great,  but the fan is not working.  I checked the fan with a separate DC power source and it worked fine.  I checked the wiring and 6 from the Super Chuffer is connected to the black lead of the fan and pin 10 is connected to the fan red lead and CG + 5 vdc.  I don’t have the smoke power plugged in to the board since I’m still waiting on my 8  ohm resistor. Any thoughts

Jim

@James Jones posted:

Hi,  I just installed the Super Chuffer and smoke Generator boards in my 6-38055 Sante Fe Northern.   Got the chuffs set for 4 per revolution and that part works great,  but the fan is not working.  I checked the fan with a separate DC power source and it worked fine.  I checked the wiring and 6 from the Super Chuffer is connected to the black lead of the fan and pin 10 is connected to the fan red lead and CG + 5 vdc. I don’t have the smoke power plugged in to the board since I’m still waiting on my 8  ohm resistor. Any thoughts

Jim

Bingo!!! The smoke heat is an ON state signal and the super chuffer does not run the fan unless this input is on with voltage.

The reasoning was, the fan would chuff when the resistor is off (example you turned the smoke switch off or via #8 on a TMCC remote).

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