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Hello, everyone I have had an issue with a new locomotive I bought(UP 1982). The locomotive runs perfect, but its speed is slightly slower. Due to the speed being slightly slower I cannot lash it up to my NS lashup (4 engines). I was wondering what is the cause of an engines speed to go slightly slower and if it’s worth sending it back to Lionel. I also have a CP SD90MAC that goes slightly slower and cannot be lashed up to my other locos. Also I was wondering if I should invest in something more modern like a legacy system instead of my tmcc cab1 and was wondering if a newer system should help with my UP SD70 & CP SD90 to lashup with my main locos. Below are a few photos of my NS lashup/UP 198/Control system. IMG_7972

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PH, is correct. We need the model number of both locomotives. A new locomotive i.e. with legacy will not mate with a non-legacy diesel. But that said you can turn off the 100 speed steps in a legacy engine and it will become a 32 step TMCC locomotive, I would only do this if they are going to be mated  together semi-permanently.

Last edited by Rich Melvin

this video is from may 2023 when I had a similar issue. The KCS is what I’d call normal speed and was capable of lashing up to my NS consist. This SD90MAC was slower and not capable of lashing up. Due to how slow the CP was it burnt the KCS. This issue is similar with my newest locomotive UP 1982

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@Diego - Incidentally, your CP SD90 MAC was released in 2016 so if the Forum techies aren't able to help you sort out the problem I'm not sure that Lionel would authorize you to send it back to them for repair anyway, due to the engine's age and the fact they no longer have parts for many engines that are more than a couple of years old.  In that case the only other option would be to send it to a service/repair person, IF the parts required were available.  Good Luck in your endeavours though.

Well, something is seriously wrong there, that disparity in speed should never happen with factory Legacy installations.   I'm assuming the slow one is the oddball.  Is it slow in reverse as well?



This video was too big to post on OGR but here’s a link to me running my new UP lashed up to my NS locos. The UP is uncoupled to avoid burning the loco

https://youtu.be/i9uFt_JJrq0?feature=shared

@PH1975 posted:

@Diego - Incidentally, your CP SD90 MAC was released in 2016 so if the Forum techies aren't able to help you sort out the problem I'm not sure that Lionel would authorize you to send it back to them for repair anyway, due to the engine's age and the fact they no longer have parts for many engines that are more than a couple of years old.  In that case the only other option would be to send it to a service/repair person, IF the parts required were available.  Good Luck in your endeavours though.

The CP SD90MAC I cannot send to Lionel it would need to be fixed by someone else. Unfortunately the new Lionel SD70ACE under warranty shows similar issues to the CP SD90 so I brought it up the SD90 as a comparison the main thing I’m trying to figure out is if I should send the UP 1982 to Lionel. Here’s a video of my UP 1982.

https://youtu.be/i9uFt_JJrq0?feature=shared

Last edited by Diego
@PH1975 posted:

@Diego - Incidentally, your CP SD90 MAC was released in 2016 so if the Forum techies aren't able to help you sort out the problem I'm not sure that Lionel would authorize you to send it back to them for repair anyway, due to the engine's age and the fact they no longer have parts for many engines that are more than a couple of years old.  In that case the only other option would be to send it to a service/repair person, IF the parts required were available.  Good Luck in your endeavours though.

There should be parts available for the 2016 engines, the RCMC was introduced in 2010.  It's the older Legacy and TMCC before 2010 that there are no longer any electronic parts available for.

I didn’t read everything in the post, but if you have a brand new engine that’s out of step, BUT it runs well, the very first thing I’d do is break it in,….run it by itself with a decent load on it at a reasonable speed, ….shake all the cobwebs loose if you get my drift….if they run these at all at the factory, I’m sure it’s 4-5 foot, then in the box it goes,….could just be you need to knock the “new” off of it, …..especially if your other machines are tried and true…also, double check your programming…

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

I didn’t read everything in the post, but if you have a brand new engine that’s out of step, BUT it runs well, the very first thing I’d do is break it in,….run it by itself with a decent load on it at a reasonable speed, ….shake all the cobwebs loose if you get my drift….if they run these at all at the factory, I’m sure it’s 4-5 foot, then in the box it goes,….could just be you need to knock the “new” off of it, …..especially if your other machines are tried and true…also, double check your programming…

Pat

I was wondering if you have any prior experience of running it w/heavy load a bit fixes the speed step issue and also was wondering if you know how I can double check my programming, I’ve never done any programming before.

@Diego posted:

I was wondering if you have any prior experience of running it w/heavy load a bit fixes the speed step issue and also was wondering if you know how I can double check my programming, I’ve never done any programming before.

Oh yes, ….if she’s stiff & new, take a few dozen laps by herself, with a load of cars, see if that makes any improvement……move the speed up and down, and see if that helps shake off the newness…….can’t hurt a thing…..if it acts up by herself, then you’ll know it’s gotta go in for warranty service,….if less than a year old from date of mfr….

Pat

@Dave_C posted:

Just curious as to how your doing your test in the video. How you are addressing the lashup and the single engine with the remote. Is the single engine included in the lashup but just not coupled ?

It looks like the lashup is running at low momentum and the single engine is set on heavy.

The lashup is addressed as train 1 consisting of the 4 NS & the uncoupled UP. also I was wondering if you know how to to change my engine to low momentum instead of what it’s at

"The lashup is addressed as train 1 consisting of the 4 NS & the uncoupled UP. also I was wondering if you know how to to change my engine to low momentum instead of what it’s at"

Hopefull you have the TMCC manual.  If not, let us know.  Setting momentum is simple.   Here's an older Mike Reagan video on loco settings in TMCC.  If you've got any of these out of whack, or different for some of the locos, you could have a problem as mentioned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3HmEZ_qw5Y

You might well want to reprogram each loco to the same momentum setting and then reprogram the lashup with all the engines and see if there is still a problem.

Last edited by Landsteiner

Hi everyone, today I set all locomotives to “H” (slowest most prototypical setting) and the UP SD70ACE still wouldn’t keep up in lashup. Do you guys think I should send it to Lionel? Does Lionel have capabilities to edit the programming to make it compatible with my lashup or is it not worth sending it to them?

@Dave_C posted:

In your video there was quite a bit of difference in acceleration rate. By setting all the engines to heavy momentum. Did the 4 lashed engines slow down noticeably and did the gap close any at all after the change.

https://youtube.com/shorts/lUwIQ6WUnjU?feature=shared Here’s the newest video on “H” setting when going in reverse the NS hit the UP since UP was slower and when going forward a large gap was made due to SD70ACE UP going slow.

@Diego posted:

https://youtube.com/shorts/lUwIQ6WUnjU?feature=shared Here’s the newest video on “H” setting when going in reverse the NS hit the UP since UP was slower and when going forward a large gap was made due to SD70ACE UP going slow.

How are you running them altogether?  Are you building them as a train?  Something doesn't seem right with one locomotive forgetting its direction

I'm no MU expert, but in Legacy you can select the first engine in the MU, and the rest of the engines match it's speed.  What happens when you designate the UP 1982 as the lead engine?  Do the others then match its slower speed?  It appears to be a driveline gearing issue.  If you had a Legacy system, it would be interesting to have all these engines on a loop and run them all via the engine #99 command.  Engine #99 in Legacy allows you to control all engines on the layout with matched speed, horn, bell etc.  They all perform at the same speed you choose... would the UP 1982 still be slower.  Hmmmmm.  

I can confirm that I have the same issue with my Western Pacific SD70 (item #2333240) from the same production run. Seems the acceleration rates are different between this engine and my UP ES44 from the rocket booster train when they are put in a lash up, even with the momentum setting set the same. As my UP ES44 will be held up by my WP SD70 when accelerating. But with both engines cruising at a set speed, the speed steps are perfectly matched between the 2 engines.

I also have this issue present on my Lionel F40PH (item #2233722), so I cannot run it with any other engine (including my steam engines).

@Volphin posted:

I'm no MU expert, but in Legacy you can select the first engine in the MU, and the rest of the engines match it's speed.  What happens when you designate the UP 1982 as the lead engine?  Do the others then match its slower speed?  It appears to be a driveline gearing issue.  If you had a Legacy system, it would be interesting to have all these engines on a loop and run them all via the engine #99 command.  Engine #99 in Legacy allows you to control all engines on the layout with matched speed, horn, bell etc.  They all perform at the same speed you choose... would the UP 1982 still be slower.  Hmmmmm.  

When it’s set as lead the 4 ns will hit the UP

@MichaelB posted:

I can confirm that I have the same issue with my Western Pacific SD70 (item #2333240) from the same production run. Seems the acceleration rates are different between this engine and my UP ES44 from the rocket booster train when they are put in a lash up, even with the momentum setting set the same. As my UP ES44 will be held up by my WP SD70 when accelerating. But with both engines cruising at a set speed, the speed steps are perfectly matched between the 2 engines.

I also have this issue present on my Lionel F40PH (item #2233722), so I cannot run it with any other engine (including my steam engines).

Any idea if Lionel can fix this issue or no

@MichaelB posted:

I can confirm that I have the same issue with my Western Pacific SD70 (item #2333240) from the same production run. Seems the acceleration rates are different between this engine and my UP ES44 from the rocket booster train when they are put in a lash up, even with the momentum setting set the same. As my UP ES44 will be held up by my WP SD70 when accelerating. But with both engines cruising at a set speed, the speed steps are perfectly matched between the 2 engines.

I also have this issue present on my Lionel F40PH (item #2233722), so I cannot run it with any other engine (including my steam engines).

My new f40 and older f40 seem to fight each other at lower speed, when moving out and slowing to a stop. After that they seem ok. I guess its the newer and older boards dont  match perfectly

@Diego posted:

Does anyone know if there is computer software to access these settings and change them through the software. I saw a post on OGR a bit ago that someone did it with ADPCM for some PS3 locos. Is there similar software for legacy?

No, Legacy is "in the can", there are no provisions for user's to change the behavior other than the documented commands.  MTH PS2 or PS3 you can actually tinker with the sound files and change a lot of the personality and sound clips.

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