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When I have two Legacy engines on live track but not yet started, and call up one engine in the remote, both engines start and move at the same time when I rotate the speed dial.  Is this an indication something is wrong with either the remote or base?  I have reprogrammed both engines to new numbers and deleted the old info, but the problem persists.

Secondly, I noticed that when moving a non-Legacy, but TMCC engine out of a storage track around the TT, it barely moves despite attempting to increase speed....until it gets off the TT and moves a bit of distance up the lead track towards the mainline.  Once it gets to this spot the engine then behaves normally.  Full disclosure, I recently started doing some re-wiring of my grounds, but halfway through the project decided what I was doing was probably not a good idea, and reversed all the work I had done up to that point...it is possible I didn't put everything back together correctly.  The issue sounds like I need to install ground plane wiring, just wanted to be sure it isn't a Base 2 problem.

Thanks in advance for any assistance!

Dave

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It's not a CAB2 or base problem. This is 100% you, your programming of the engines, and your wiring and power distribution

You most definitely have a serious power drop on your track and turntable. This explains the speed change. Has nothing to do with command control or ground plane- this is power distribution 101.

"When I have two Legacy engines on live track but not yet started, and call up one engine in the remote, both engines start and move at the same time when I rotate the speed dial"

We are lacking information. This implies 2 possible scenarios. The engines are NOT being command controlled and you are varying the track power likely via a powermaster

Or

both are the same ID.

Again, sorry to say, but this really sounds like track power and wiring issues- nothing with command control per-se.

Catch22, because likely this is a resistance or track joints and then your wiring power distribution problem (especially the turntable and lead in track)- NO using a multimeter may not initially  find this using traditional just measure voltage methods. You have to measure spot voltage of the section of track the engine is on under loaded conditions.

The 2 engines running at once, if it is command- that is programming errors. If it is conventional- then both are just missing any signal and getting a slowing rising track power- which then implies a powermaster or other TMCC controlled power device (ZW-C, ZW-L, or TPC).

Vernon,

Thanks for the reply. Regarding the 2 engine starting problem,  I am not varying voltage, I am using PH180s through a TIU, and I am starting the engines in command mode.  I never run conventional. Either engine runs fine as long as the other is not on a live track.  The issue only occurs if both engines are on live tracks.

Dave

Sorry, we were cross typing, but again, this implies both engines still have the same ID. Either that, or they are part of a "Train" as programmed and both engines are responding.

I would review the Legacy manual, clear any programming with these engines and try again. https://www.lionelsupport.com/...CYv15Manual31513.pdf

Lashups (that's what Lionel calls it- don't shoot the messenger or argue) begin on page 60

Thanks for the reply. Regarding the 2 engine starting problem,  I am not varying voltage, I am using PH180s through a TIU, and I am starting the engines in command mode.  I never run conventional. Either engine runs fine as long as the other is not on a live track.  The issue only occurs if both engines are on live tracks.

You're not trying to run them as ID #99 by any chance, are you?

If any other ID #, you simply have them both programmed as the same ID #.

Vernon,

Again, thanks for the input.  After my last post I went down to test voltage, all was OK, even on the garden track/TT/Yard Lead under load.  So I started the engine and it worked as it should. I did, however, cycle power on/off on the PH, not sure if that mattered.  I also tested the 2 engine issue and all is well, I think perhaps the remote/base needed to cycle itself after I did the reprogramming/deletion of old numbers.  The issue did first appear when one engine was id 99 and the other was 93.

Dave

When did the #99 default start? It used to be Eng #1 at the very upstart of TMCC.

Yes, an assumption is a reset engine or new engine is defaulted to ID 1, but, but, but, but, it's also responding to ID99.

Again, totally different functions and things. There is the programmed ID, and then completely separate concept-all engines regardless of set ID number responding ID99 because it is a special "reserved" ID function.

You effectively only have 1-98, and let's be honest, we know #1 is default, so really, 2-98 is "usable" individually assignable ID space.

Last edited by Vernon Barry
@cbojanower posted:

99 is a backdoor start command. Pretty much any TMCC/legacy engine will respond to that, except for possibly a few of the first ones.  Whereas 1 can be changed, 99 is always there.

Actually, only newer Legacy (2010 and later) and Lionchief Plus 2.0 engines will respond to TMCC #99.  No older Legacy or TMCC will see that as a universal address.

To summarize (and please let me know if I don't have this correct):

  1. #99 cannot be programmed into any engine.  All Legacy after 2010 and all LC 2.0 will respond to it however because they're permanently pre-programmed by Lionel to recognize it as a "Master" control ID.
  2. #99 also cannot be deleted because it's permanent.
  3. They will however additionally respond to whatever ID is programmed into them by the user, or if none has been programmed since it was purchased, then the ID programmed in by the factory prior to it being shipped from the factory.
  4. #1 is, and always has been, the "Default" ID.  Everything, when shipped from the factory has its ID set to #1 before it goes out the door.

Mike

Last edited by Mellow Hudson Mike
  1. #99 cannot be programmed into any engine.  All Legacy after 2010 and all LC 2.0 will respond to it however because they're permanently pre-programmed by Lionel to recognize it as a "Master" control ID.

Actually, all the TMCC and the early Legacy don't treat #99 special, and I indeed can program a TMCC engine with #99.  Test was done on a Legacy command system with the current software on the CAB2 and command base.  An engine with the Mini Commander 2 and another with the standard R2LC were tested, both programmed and responded to #99.

That being said, it's obviously a VERY BAD IDEA as any modern Legacy or LC+ 2.0 engines will also respond if they're powered up!

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