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@Jacobpaul81 posted:

Pretty much.  The thread title should have been is "s scale" still an option.

If ya want Flyer, yer golden. Not my thing - at all.  And if it were, O-27 is readily available.

Well, "S scale" is/was very much understood as the root of the question. However, the desires voiced here (and everyone is entitled to their desires) are often very specific and narrowly focused. The historic route for modelers so inclined is to become modeling craftspersons and build to their specific needs motive power, rolling stock, and structures. I know a number of 2-rail O scalers who model every required piece to very accurately represent a defined railroad of an historic time and place. If a manufacturer makes something that 'fits', maybe with a bit of modification, fine. But, they do not have an expectation that a manufacturer will cater to their desires upfront.

A difficulty with this thread is that someone 'dropping in' might get the impression that S gauge is hopeless. Well, it is not for the majority who may be more flexible in their desires. OK?

Respectfully,

Bob

PS: There is a big difference between Gilbert Flyer, its descendants (e.g., AM) and (gasp!) O-27. Gilbert made that point in the catalogs from the get go.

Last edited by Bob Bubeck
@Bob Bubeck posted:

Well, "S scale" is/was very much understood as the root of the question. However, the desires voiced here (and everyone is entitled to their desires) are often very specific and narrowly focused. The historic route for modelers so inclined is to become modeling craftspersons and build to their specific needs motive power, rolling stock, and structures. I know a number of 2-rail O scalers who model every required piece to very accurately represent a defined railroad of an historic time and place. If a manufacturer makes something that 'fits', maybe with a bit of modification, fine. But, they do not have an expectation that a manufacturer will cater to their desires upfront.

A difficulty with this thread is that someone 'dropping in' might get the impression that S gauge is hopeless. Well, it is not for the majority who may be more flexible in their desires. OK?

Respectfully,

Bob

PS: There is a big difference between Gilbert Flyer, its descendants (e.g., AM) and (gasp!) O-27. Gilbert made that point in the catalogs from the get go.

Problem solved.

@Bob Bubeck posted:


A difficulty with this thread is that someone 'dropping in' might get the impression that S gauge is hopeless. Well, it is not for the majority who may be more flexible in their desires. OK?

Respectfully,

Bob

PS: There is a big difference between Gilbert Flyer, its descendants (e.g., AM) and (gasp!) O-27. Gilbert made that point in the catalogs from the get go.

The fact that we can openly discuss S, warts and all, indicates to me that S isn't hopeless.

Difficult yes, but not hopeless.

Complaints about S are just as valid as the reasons to be in S.

It's much better than elsewhere that when such subjects are brought up, the response is usually "S is the builders scale, you always can build it," or "XYZ Company made that 20 years ago, we don't need another one."  Both are unhelpful dead-ender responses IMHO.

Rusty

It's much better than elsewhere that when such subjects are brought up, the response is usually "S is the builders scale, you always can build it," or "XYZ Company made that 20 years ago, we don't need another one."  Both are unhelpful dead-ender responses IMHO.

As a reader of and sometimes contributor to the forum to which you are referring, I got a chuckle from this Rusty.  If that forum had been my only exposure to S enthusiasts 5 years ago, I would have refrained from social participation in the hobby so as to avoid being talked down to.

I've already put in my 2 cents worth... but here is 2 more. 🙂

I actually find the challenge of looking for S scale/ gauge stuff as being part of the allure; there's millions of HO items "out there", and tons of O ( both of which I like, by the way). The thrill of the hunt for S is, again, part of the attraction for me. I get it that that's not for everyone, but it works in my case. 😁

Mark in Oregon

@Jacobpaul81 posted:

Well I finally won an auction for an S-helper car.  Actually got a handful - but just the one Santa Fe.  This made me chuckle - S scale 40' Reefer in front of of O scale 50' boxcar.   Santa Fe logo is the exact same size.

You can guarantee that the S Helper graphics are as close to prototypes as they could get in size, shape, color, and position.

@Chuck K posted:

You can guarantee that the S Helper graphics are as close to prototypes as they could get in size, shape, color, and position.

I was able to grab a couple of the MKT Single-Sheathed Boxcars for $40 per car.  Graphics and Details are top notch right down to the flat paint. 

I've been trying to obtain the ATSF single-sheathed and the War Bonds rebuilt from S-helper but I keep getting beat out on auctions. 





American Models 2900 class 4-8-4's (Left, dolled up a little.  Right, straight from the box.  (Still available with scale wheels.)

AM 29XX 061111 01



I was finally able to snag a Scale DC 2900 class 4-8-4 "Heavy Mountain".  I'm expecting it to show up in the mail today.  I note that these (Rusty's) are numbered 2922 and 2920 - but mine is 2923. The image on AM's website is 2922.  Is this 2923 an older run?

s-l1600

I'd been teetering back and forth on O - S for a while. It's been difficult to find one of these for a price I could bare - but one finally came through. 

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@Jacobpaul81 posted:

I was finally able to snag a Scale DC 2900 class 4-8-4 "Heavy Mountain".  I'm expecting it to show up in the mail today.  I note that these (Rusty's) are numbered 2922 and 2920 - but mine is 2923. The image on AM's website is 2922.  Is this 2923 an older run?

s-l1600

I'd been teetering back and forth on O - S for a while. It's been difficult to find one of these for a price I could bare - but one finally came through.

If your model has white lettering and an incandescent bulb, it's from the first run of Northerns.  The later run had grayish lettering to simulate the imitation aluminum lettering Santa Fe used.  Also the headlight is an LED on the later run.  Below is are images of a second run Northern.

As I recall, AM did two numbers in each run of the Santa Fe Northerns.  The LED looks orange when off, but when lit it's very white.

@PRR1950 posted:

Yes, and a 4-8-4 is known as a "Northern."

In Santa Fe parlance, they were initially referred to as "Heavy Mountains."  Later they simply used their "class" (first in the series) numbers on all their steam locomotives: i.e. 3751 class, 2900 class, etc.

The UP referred to Northerns as 800's.  N&W, J's.

Plus, that which we call a Northern was also known as: Big Apple(CofG,) Dixie(NC&StL,) Empire Builder(GN,) General(RF&P,) Greenbrier(C&O,) Golden State(SP; later General Service,) Governor(RF&P again,) Niagara(NYC,) Niagra(NdeM,) Pocono(DL&W,) Potomac(WM,) Wyoming(LV.)

Rusty

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If your model has white lettering and an incandescent bulb, it's from the first run of Northerns.  The later run had grayish lettering to simulate the imitation aluminum lettering Santa Fe used.  Also the headlight is an LED on the later run.  Below is are images of a second run Northern.

As I recall, AM did two numbers in each run of the Santa Fe Northerns.  The LED looks orange when off, but when lit it's very white.

In Santa Fe parlance, they were initially referred to as "Heavy Mountains."  Later they simply used their "class" (first in the series) numbers on all their steam locomotives: i.e. 3751 class, 2900 class, etc.

The UP referred to Northerns as 800's.  N&W, J's.

Plus, that which we call a Northern was also known as: Big Apple(CofG,) Dixie(NC&StL,) Empire Builder(GN,) General(RF&P,) Greenbrier(C&O,) Golden State(SP; later General Service,) Governor(RF&P again,) Niagara(NYC,) Niagra(NdeM,) Pocono(DL&W,) Potomac(WM,) Wyoming(LV.)

Rusty

Ok - this one looks white - so it's probably first run.  Thanks Rusty!

... and Rusty is 100% Correct.  ATSF did not own any "Northerns".   I've posted on this before - they were known by the road as "Heavy Mountains", "New Mountains", or in early schematics - "Mountain 4-wheel trailer".  They were never referred to as a "Northern" and there is zero documentation of that term from the road.  When 3751 was approved for the National Registry - it was as the oldest "4-8-4", not as the oldest "Northern". The application specifically refers to the locomotive as a "Heavy Mountain."  This is also why the ATSF numbered it 3751 - a continuation of the previous 3700 class Mountains.

@Strummer posted:

Or a "Pocono" or a "Niagara" or...🙂

Mark in Oregon 🎄

Model railroading is rife with inaccurate terminology. Note that the Eastern Roads where the toy manufacturers were / are located all use correct terms for their regional locomotives - Mohawk, Niagra, Greenbrier, etc.

ATSF was a mostly southwestern and western road - and they were big on their southwestern brand.  Terms like Northern, Hudson, or Berkshire were foreign to them and not "on brand".   Terms like Texas, Prairie, Pacific, and Mountain were totally acceptable.  The 4-8-4s and 4-6-4s were refered to as Heavy Mountains and Heavy Pacifics by the road - though they could have just as easily come up with new names - like Southwesterns and Kansans.

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