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I remember a few years ago reading several articles which had various opinions on if the postwar era was considered the golden age of model railroading. Most opinions from many sources generally considered the last 20 or so years the golden age of model railroading. Simply put anyone could have almost anything and in large quantities of almost any scale. Anything from conventional to command control with several different systems were out there to entice the public. Shows were plentiful and while the user population was aging there seemed to be no end in sight.

Then COVID19 and the pandemic followed several smaller manufacturers leaving the industry. With the pandemic in full swing then the big bang of MTH going out of business. No more tinplate, standard gauge, European items, etc. along with their DCS system and parts to support the products out there. I have watched through the past few years as lost of new product was produced and sold and squirreled away by collectors so there is not apparent current glut of most of these items.

So now does everyone just hunker down or what does everyone think is next?

No nasty criticisms please. I am doing my part on promoting the hobby and my club has been doing COVID19 compliant parking lot meets inviting all clubs and all people to support the hobby. I am just curious what experts and novices both think.

Thank you, 

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Jeff,

I think there have been two "golden ages" of O gauge model railroading - postwar from 1946 to about 1960, and the most recent 25 years with the multitude of O gauge brands including MTH, Lionel, Sunset, K-Line, Weaver, Atlas O, Williams and maybe Menards offering a huge selection of products. Do I think it's ending or in decline - definitely - especially because of the demise of MTH, which I expect will result in fewer items of the kind I buy. These two "golden ages" coincide with the years I have actively pursued model railroading - first in O, then HO, and now O again. I think the outlook is better for HO and N scales. Nonetheless, I think 1:48 model railroading will continue but probably with less innovation and fewer offerings that will interest me. Entry level sets may continue as they are but they don't make a "golden age."

MELGAR

Last edited by MELGAR

I have a nice collection of Lionel PostWar - and that was the Golden Age.  No question.

I have a nice collection of modern Lionel Legacy/TMCC-controlled trains - and this is the Golden Age.  No question.

So there. 

Each "age" is different and each age has brought us wonderful toys and beautifully built (for their time ... and intent) trains.  The last 120 years has been the Golden Age of toy trains.

Let's just sit back and enjoy it all while we are made to stay at home more.  No handwringing just yet on my part.

It kinda depends on what you mean when you say the Golden Age is "over."

Do you mean over, in the sense that this is the end of new, different, available, high tech, high quality engines and trains?  No, I don't think so.  Frankly, as someone just getting back into it after a 48 year absence, I am stunned at the wide array of trains, engines and accessories that are available.  Unbelievable really.   But, as long as people are willing to pay  $250 to $1,000 for a new engine, somebody will make them.

On the other hand, if you mean over as far as it seems to be a  hobby of diminishing popularity in the U.S., then I tend to agree.

When I was a kid, there must have been 8 or 10 really big train layouts around, just in my subdivision, that my friend's fathers had in their basements.  Lots of them were old school prewar and early post war, but there were also several big time HO layouts .  The Dads were really enthusiastic, and were happy to show us how the trains ran, and even let us handle the throttle if we were careful.  Every kid I grew up with got some sort of train set around his 12th birthday.

However, in the past 20 years, I have lived in three different locals, in two different states, and have never known anyone other than myself that had the slightest interest in "toy trains."   Yes, there were occasional train shows around, and of course there were a fair number of people there, but nobody I knew of, and in the last 20 years, I never had a friend or business acquaintance at work say that was buying a train set for his son or daughter.  X-Box is now the right of passage gift at age 12, or even younger.  

In a similar vein, the sports of skeet and trap were really popular when I was growing up.  When I was a teenager, you often had to wait an hour for a range to open up to shoot one of these 25 shot games.

Now, most skeet and trap ranges have been closed, and the ranges that have survived have changed to Sporting Clays layouts ( a 50 shot game), and when I occasionally go there are not many people there.  Almost no women, and the men are in their late thirties to late 50s, all carrying $3,000 (or more) over/unders.   To shoot a single game, it often costs $30 to $40, plus the cost of two boxes of shells.  (For a game that takes about 45 minutes.)    It has morphed into an "elitist" sport, and is dying out.

Golf is also a dying middle class sport.  About half the public golf courses in America are going out of business (well before Covid 19), and Country Clubs are really hard pressed now to find someone who will pay  $5,000 to $10,000 (or more!) as a membership fee to join the Club, plus the green fees and cart fees per game.

If you happen to own a golf course, you are pretty much out of luck.  Nobody (not even the Japanese) will buy one from you now.  It is a money losing proposition.    Again, it is turning into an elitist sport, and that generally spells the end.  I have two clients that developed, constructed and own two large private country clubs about 25 years ago.  Both of them are barely breaking even now.     The old members are now dying out, and new members are few and far between.

Mannyrock

 

 

 

 

 

No criticism here, but your post kinda morphed from golden age to covid 19.

I would still consider the golden age of toy trains to be the post war era. Almost all young boys had train sets and every department store (prior to shopping malls) had train layouts at Christmas. Most of the people today in the hobby are in fact the same young boys, just older now. If I took inventory of all the people I know today with 10-ish year old boys, I would be hard pressed to find even one with a train set. 

Last edited by GVDobler

Yes and no.

The newer generation I’ve noticed tend to stear near the remote  control style equipment , which is very nice and fun .

But the older group of people seem to still be into the non remote style of trains.

I guess it depends on what and how your introduced into the hobby as to how you lean .

Last edited by mackb4

It's over for me. I can remember wearing out the Lionel 1984 catalogs. I haven't even seen the Lionel 2020 catalogs. Just don't have the interest anymore. Williams before Bachmann, Weaver, K-Line, ROW, and all the small manufacturers of detail parts, kits, and scenery, not to mention the magazines that were twice as many pages as now. I'm pretty much done. Hopefully, though, there is someone out there taking my place who is enjoying the current times. 

@GVDobler posted:

I would still consider the golden age of toy trains to be the post war era. Almost all young boys had train sets and every department store (prior to shopping malls) had train layouts at Christmas. Most of the people today in the hobby are in fact the same young boys, just older now. If I took inventory of all the people I know today with 10-ish year old boys, I would be hard pressed to find even one with a train set. 

Even setting aside the nostalgia factor for those of us oldsters, I would definitely agree. As you note, Lionel trains could be found all over the country, from large department stores to small local stores (like on the 2nd floor of the small hardware store in the town of 1,000 people I grew up in, which even had a nice Lionel display layout). Lionel trains were part of America's culture back in the 50s. As one source says, "Lionel trains are best known for their glory days—the 1950s—when young boys and their dads enjoyed designing train layouts as a great American pastime."

Still, the choices available today are many, and based upon sales I see (whether manufacturers selling out of items, or looking at auctions sites), demand is still pretty good, and given all the variety on the market, it's still a great age.

Last edited by breezinup

I don't think you are allowed two Golden Ages.  That period of time was the post war era.  Today is a great time for sure.  In the mid 80's when Williams showed us that you could produce a variety of engine styles at affordable prices to the 90's when all manor of engines began to be produced, we have enjoyed the best of times.

Perhaps this is the Gilded Age or the Platinum Age.  Whatever the age, it has been a great ride.  What I hope is that someone picks up the Railking Line.  It is by far the best 027 product on the market.  If the hobby is to continue, there has to be an entry level train that is a good value for the consumer.

My Golden Age will be my Golden Age for model/toy trains. I look forward to having the time to run them all and wish for more. If only I had more space....and more shelves....and more of all of it.....and more time here on the good planet Earth.  Will there be trains in heaven ?  HE went to prepare a place for me and that means a giant train room, with shelves stacked to the ceiling with mint PW and SG trains and two dozen ZWs to run them with. 

Stamp collecting has already fallen dead and just about everything else that is not fantasy based or instant gratification. No one wants hands on reality. Reality shows are not even reality.  But model trains will live on.  

 

 

 

 

I think there was a prior discussion what to call the last 25 years or so... the movement to realism and scale, digital control improvements, a variety of offerings. Perusing old issues of OGR, it seems there were so many dealers, train manufacturers/importers and ancillary industries that supported the market during the mid to late 90’s through mid 00’s. It’s interesting to see the contraction over the years. Id have to say it was more a modern era. 

Like space-time, it is ALL relative.

I second Art’s assessment. When you look at all the amazing layouts that exist now, big and small, pre-war, post-war, modern era, and the ability to see them all through the internet (and especially, the OGR Forum ), I’d say we are in a “golden age”. While there isn’t as much of the old father/son dynamic, it still survives, as will the hobby.

I agree with TinplateArt ... like space and time it's all relative.  

The phenomena of expansion  and contraction .....   It's the rhythm of life. Our bodies expand with each breath and contract with each exhalation.  Babies expand into toddlers, then tweens, teens, young adults, and finally oldsters like many of us. ( I mean whose waistline hasn't expanded and, hopefully, contracted over the years ... LOL!)  The entire Universe expands and contracts....  So do hobbies, sports interests, and other pass times activities.   The so called " golden age"  depends upon the lens in which our hobby is viewed and experienced by each individual. 

In 1969 when The Lionel Corp. was to be no more, knowledgable sales folks at hobby stores told me time and time again that because of waining interest, O gauge trains were pretty much a thing of the past.  Well we ALL know the rest of that story

 

 

For me the demise of K-Line was the beginning of the end for  modern golden age of trains.

Weaver in 2015 now MTH in 2021.

While premium trains will be here and there, the pleathora of choices will not be there.

I dont see Atlas O and/or Williams By Bachman filling in the void.

My collection has matured so much That i am at the point of selling off stuff and not getting into too much new stuff especially scale items that need a lot of space to run.

Last edited by prrhorseshoecurve

It is clear from the comments that there isn't a consensus on the criteria for a golden age.  Some equated it to the percentage of households that had trains, others to the technology advances offered, and others, the volume of vendors/choices.  Highest annual sales for the industry could be another.   How, when, and why an individual entered the hobby probably influences that criteria.  Perspective as well - golden age for the hobby or the individual.

Brendan  

Interesting comments.  Someone mentioned elitist as in that's why golf is way down.  In some ways that is also happening to our hobby.  How many young people today can afford a $1000 engine?  Or the cost of the lumber, track, etc to build a layout?  Or the space?  If the economy would truly rebound such that the average family had some truly disposable income and time I think you would see a resurgence in lots of hobbies.  In the meantime I'm enjoying this golden age.

 

I think that model railroading and rail-fanning go hand in hand and that a life-long interest in both develops at an young age. When I operate the Plywood Empire Route today I [mostly] see the trains and action I saw and watched as a kid. I couldn't name all the locations up close and personal on railroad property Dad and I haunted when I was a kid. No one thought anything of us watching trains a few feet from the track. Crews were friendly, especially to interested kids. I have an early childhood memory of being in the cab of a Santa Fe F (by myself, Dad handed me up to the crew) and watching the Engineer notching up the throttle (Click...Click...Click)  and feeling the floor begin to shake as the 567 just behind the bulkhead loaded and began to rev up. Then we we began to move. We only moved a few feet (I surmise for the train behind to clear the switch at the other end of the siding). THAT Golden Age is long passed and the only experience with trains available to ordinary kids today is a video on YouTube. The every-Summer six to eight thousand mile rail vacation trips of my youth are out of reach for most families today. Rail-fanning has thus become largely an elitist pastime for the monied leisure-class. I think without a base of life-long rail fans the pastime and hobby of model railroading will fade. Just my two cents worth.

I loved the Lionel trains I got for Christmas 52-62; however, I finally got back into trains in 2003 with Kline's Hudson and TMCC.  With 70 engines later (20 sold 3 years ago) and MTH going away, I doubt I will be purchasing any new engines.  Of my four grandchildren only my 7 year old grandson has any interest in trains and with the China virus he has not been over to play with them since March and non of my children are interested in trains.  I think trains will diminish in importance as a hobby even more than they are now.

Pretty narrow view point here thinking that the so-called golden age might be centered about O gauge or scale trains - really looking at all scales and numbers might be far more telling.

But I've been hearing that this hobby is either dead or dying for 30+ years now, and strangely enough very little in the way of the big picture has actually changed -- yes, specifics have, but overall, not really.  And, there's more stuff available now than ever before.

It's never been an all ages, all persons hobby, but one that does demand an investment  of time.  Space requirements and finances are also involved, but small scales and "on the cheap" has always been an available option for everyone.

 

@mwb posted:

Pretty narrow view point here thinking that the so-called golden age might be centered about O gauge or scale trains - really looking at all scales and numbers might be far more telling.

But I've been hearing that this hobby is either dead or dying for 30+ years now, and strangely enough very little in the way of the big picture has actually changed -- yes, specifics have, but overall, not really.  And, there's more stuff available now than ever before.

Couldn't agree more.

Mark in Oregon

It depends on which segment of the hobby.  If you're into postwar or anything conventional, then the Golden Age is never over because of the amount of used product out there.

However, I like modern-ish diesels, scale stuff, and only midwest road names.  Almost everything I own was made since 2010.  I grew up in the 80's and have no memory or nostalgia for postwar Lionel.  For people like me, I think the Golden Age is over (or at least on a long hiatus). 

Two Lionel catalogs per year and that's it. 

I'm optimistic that battery power will revolutionize things and new manufacturers will surface in years to come.  Until then, it might be pretty sleepy.  Just my opinion.

I think the postwar era was great. It was a golden age in terms of popularity and whatnot. 

But I think a serious modeler from back then would just be floored at what we got now. The literal bells and whistles are mind blowing, even compared to what I had as a kid in the 90s. Engines creep along and labor just like the real thing. It's awesome! Maybe it's a second "golden age" but I kind of think it's just a totally different age. 

I think the market on proprietary stuff will plateau. I think the company that decides to go open source first will attract new tinker-ers. That's what I think is next. Manufacturer encouraged modification via opensource designs. Also, VR or VR helmets could do interesting things. What if you built a layout and then virtually sat in the engineers seat? Big dreams man, big dreams. 

Hmm, great question. This really depends on people's point of views, so there is going to be an innumerable amount of very valid opinions. Some folks will be may consider with the train market the way it is that it was over a long time ago, other may say it is on the rise.

I will side on where the individual walks. What I mean is where your own railroad is. The point being that if you are enjoying yourself immensely in what you have and what you are doing, why not let that be your Golden Age. Be in tinplate, conventional postwar, scale, what have you.

I probably like most can be fascinated with the old and the new. And by that I mean old tinplates, postwar, and the like. That doesn't necessarily mean that I collect them(I always seem to be eyeballing tinplate NYC Commodore Vanderbilt engines and cars), but I can appreciate them all the same.

I remember when I was younger, back in the 70's & 80's, my uncle's postwar engines were the cat's meow. I still think back on that time today and everything that ran past my nose, tickles me pink. Last time we talked trains he was getting his ZW fixed, mice ate the cord.

The Golden Age is where you plant your feet. Smile.

I think Tinplate Art nailed it with his comment above. All I know is that I have so many layout and train projects piling up, its going to take me years to make a dent. Moreover, I am looking at product, such as motive power, scenery, detailing, etc. that was unheard of in years past. Yeah, without MTH, its going to be different, but its still good times in my world.

For me the demise of K-Line was the beginning of the end for  modern golden age of trains.

Weaver in 2015 now MTH in 2021.

While premium trains will be here and there, the pleathora of choices will not be there.

I dont see Atlas O and/or Williams By Bachman filling in the void.

My collection has matured so much That i am at the point of selling off stuff and not getting into too much new stuff especially scale items that need a lot of space to run.

Close to my view, also. There is still a "halo effect" from MTH (just beginning) and Weaver - even K-Line - but entropy is indeed the driving factor in 3RO. Heck, ROW still gets some attention. But - WbB is not a leader, 3rd Rail is still more the expensive niche player, Atlas is not doing well, so I understand, and can Lionel pull the mainstream load by itself? Especially with much of its nicer product at 3rd Rail price levels?

I guess that the MTH/employee buyout hopes never materialized. I had a little faith, and a lot of hope. Of course, 2020 is a terrible time to try anything.

And so many of those little advertisers that used to appear in OGR/CTT....gone. (Part or most of that was caused by the fact that many of them were cottage industries, and the guy just got old and retired!)

@Dick Malon posted:

  How many young people today can afford a $1000 engine? 

The "entry fee" to this hobby is not $1000+ engines.  Even back in the heyday I had to save my pennies for the top of the line Steam Locos.   I had plenty of locos that were very affordable for that time frame.

Then, as I got older had a paper route, etc... I could finally afford that brand new freight set with the 773 Hudson.

Fast forward to today:  sure, those of us who have been doing this awhile, and can afford it, like what we get with the scale $1000+ locos.

However, most young people I know start out with one of the starter sets from Lionel or MTH.  Lots of bang for the buck in those.

Just looking at Lionchief sets, MSRP is $430 and under.  You get the loco, cars, track, and power supply.  A great way to start.

In comparison, one of the still growing hobbies where I am is the RC cars in 1:10 scale. Offroad and on road racing.    A decent, easy to build kit has an MSRP around $325, then you have to buy your radio.

As others have alluded to, it's all how you look at it.   Sometimes we need to remember that starting out we often didn't, or couldn't, have the very best, top of the line.

I was thrilled with my first small set in 1967.  I got hooked, and kept growing it until I went to college, got married etc.  Then got back into it as an adult, and was able to dig into the top of the line from Lionel and MTH

I have considered my entire time in this hobby the "Golden Age" and I got serious about actually modeling trains nearly 40 years at age 12.  It the one hobby that has always stuck with me the longest.

I would simply pose the question, when has it not been a "Golden Age" in this hobby?  I have so many fun projects lined for some theoretical time in the future when I will actually get to them.    

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