Is the normal? When I press the "HALT" key on the Legacy Cab 2 remote.

Doesn't happen for me.  I put two on the track, one silent and powered up, the other running.  I hit the halt key and the running engine stopped, the other engine remained silent.

Any ideas that I could try out that may fix the problem?

Are you running straight Legacy, or through the DCS system?

Related- in various places the instructions refer to "emergencies" where you can use the HALT key.   They infer that using it excessively is not to be done.  Why?  IS there any harm?

There is no harm at all in using the halt key.  The only bad thing is it doesn't slow things down normally but rather just yanks the emergency brake.  This may cause long consists to derail at times.

@sinclair posted:

Are you running straight Legacy, or through the DCS system?

I'm running straight Legacy/TMCC.

@Mike Wyatt posted:

Related- in various places the instructions refer to "emergencies" where you can use the HALT key.   They infer that using it excessively in not to be done.  Why?  IS there any harm?

 

Mike,

Yesterday was the first time I ever used that function and noticed the wake up of the other Legacy engines. I tried it four or five more times to confirm and it happened every time.  I haven't tried again it since I posted on the OGR Forum. It's probably not a big deal but it was strange that it happened,

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

There is no harm at all in using the halt key.  The only bad thing is it doesn't slow things down normally but rather just yanks the emergency brake.  This may cause long consists to derail at times.

gunrunnerjohn,

I wonder why the Legacy engines are affected and the TMCC engines are not? I usually have 8 or 10 combined on the tracks at one time.

Are these earlier Legacy units? I presume so. My Legacy M1b and PM Berk from 2008-09 both power up with sounds.

Having said that.

My 'newer" legacy stuff also powers up. i.e. headlights, marker lights, and cab light,but, no sounds.

( Just an uneducated guess) but I suspect in order for the loco to "halt" it must receive and/ or react to the command, so it must be in an operational state.

 Add to that. No Legacy loco is truly "off" when shut down if the tracks are still powered up. The newer models shut down sound and lights, but can still move when the throttle is turned.

Earlier Legacy stuff merely has the sound muted when "shutdown" on a powered track.

In either case the locomotives are responding to the halt command because they aren't truly shut down.

The way around this anomaly is the TPC unit or a Legacy powermaster. When these are integrated into the command system. They respond independent of the locomotives by actually killing the power to the track when the halt button is pressed.

The short answer is....yep, completely normal. 

On a side note. this is precisely why all of my sidings are isolated and on a toggle switch.

Any loco that I'm not using stays off.....completely.

@R Whitley posted:

gunrunnerjohn,

I wonder why the Legacy engines are affected and the TMCC engines are not? I usually have 8 or 10 combined on the tracks at one time.

Maybe this has something to do with the "startup sequence" legacy locos have that TMCC does not.

Wheres Jon Z? Maybe he can explain.

@RickO posted:

Are these earlier Legacy units? I presume so. My Legacy M1b and PM Berk from 2008-09 both power up with sounds.

Having said that.

My 'newer" legacy stuff also powers up. i.e. headlights, marker lights, and cab light,but, no sounds.

( Just an uneducated guess) but I suspect in order for the loco to "halt" it must receive and/ or react to the command, so it must be in an operational state.

 Add to that. No Legacy loco is truly "off" when shut down if the tracks are still powered up. The newer models shut down sound and lights, but can still move when the throttle is turned.

Earlier Legacy stuff merely has the sound muted when "shutdown" on a powered track.

In either case the locomotives are responding to the halt command because they aren't truly shut down.

The way around this anomaly is the TPC unit or a Legacy powermaster. When these are integrated into the command system. They respond independent of the locomotives by actually killing the power to the track when the halt button is pressed.

The short answer is....yep, completely normal. 

On a side note. this is precisely why all of my sidings are isolated and on a toggle switch.

Any loco that I'm not using stays off.....completely.

Rick,

My Legacy engines are 10 years old at least. I do have toggle switches on all my sidings and I guess I need to consistently use them. It's still strange that this happens but it's rare that the halt key has to be used anyway, Yesterday was the first time so I guess I'm fortunate I don't have many runaways.

I did a further experiment.  Legacy with the older modular electronics (R4LC/DCDS) will wake up with the emergency stop button.  Newer Legacy with the RCMC board stay silent.

Hope that answers the question.

Weird that they wake up but at least they don't shoot off like a rocket.  Since I have a ZW-L and before that my ZW-C, the power cuts out so I have never seen that before.

Nope, they don't move.  The biggest issue would probably be the fact that the smoke turns on.

Thanks everybody for the input, I feel much better knowing that's it nothing wrong.   I always keep the smoke cut off until I'm ready for some smoke.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I did a further experiment.  Legacy with the older modular electronics (R4LC/DCDS) will wake up with the emergency stop button.  Newer Legacy with the RCMC board stay silent.

Hope that answers the question.

Right, same result I got when I performed that same experiment 5 posts up.

However, you missed the fact that the halt button will turn on the lights on the rcmc equipped locos.lol!

Interesting thread.  I have a Milwaukee EP-5 that almost always starts up when I turn on the power.  But more frustrating is that some of the numerous legacy engines I have on tracks around my layout have smoke units that start up on their own.  Some right away but others sort of randomly.   Usually I hear them or notice the smoke but not always,  leading to burnt smoke batting.  I have begun to place a few of the worst offenders ons tracks that I can toggle off and on.   Phil

I have a early version (modular electronics) UP FEF that while running with smoke turned off will  just turn on by itself - never have found why.  Next time I work on it I'll put one of GunRunner's Super Chuffers in and that should solve the issue.

I hadn't seen the poster issue before either, but I use Legacy Powermasters so I loose all power the same as MartyE described with the ZW-L.

Jim

I verified that the older Legacy with modular boards will indeed startup when you press emergency stop.  Since I so rarely use that button, I hadn't previously noticed that oddity.  However, for my currently under construction layout, I'll be parking any locomotives on unpowered tracks, so that will not be an issue.

@R Whitley posted:

When I pressed the "HALT" key on the Legacy Cab 2 remote all my Legacy engines came alive. The TMCC engines stayed dormant. I was running just one Legacy engine today when this happen. I tried it several times and the same thing happened. Note: The "HALT" button did stop the engine, so that works correctly.

Lionel did respond to my concern and their reply is below: Katie states the sound system remains dormant but in my case it comes alive. Anyway I'm thankful that Lionel is working on a fix. My affected engines are older Legacy engines.

The lights didn't bother me as much as the smoke coming on.  That's the one I'd like to see them address if possible.

My smoke units were cut off so I didn't think about that issue. But I agree the turning on of the smoke units could cause issues.

I don't see Lionel coming up with a "fix" for 10+ year old locos that have this perceived issue by design. They have enough keep the new stuff operating as advertised.

It's easier just to toggle off your sidings,problem solved.  Isn't that why you put the toggles in anyway?

Much safer and less aggrivating than shipping your locos to Lionel and paying for modification if they do offer a resolution.

Even if the halt button functioned as you desire. They would still be getting power , putting them at risk of damage from a short somewhere else on the layout.

Strictly my 2 cents. Best of luck with Lionel and a solution.

Rick, in this case, I suspect the "fix" would be to the Legacy base software, not to the individual locomotives.

Rick,

I totally agree with you, I plan on powering down the sidings and run some trains.

Thank you!