Mark Boyce posted:

Marty, No I’m going to hold onto mine.  They are like gold!  LOL. I’m with you!  I have one more on the way and may get another!

So the DCS remote is one of the very few model train items that will actually appreciate in value?   Perhaps dealers should consider charging more than MSRP or just sit on them for 5 to 10 years and then really ask a premium price.

I think I might pick a few up also, and sell them down the road to some chump... or will I be the chump and break even at best in a few years.

H1000

H1000 posted:
Mark Boyce posted:

Marty, No I’m going to hold onto mine.  They are like gold!  LOL. I’m with you!  I have one more on the way and may get another!

So the DCS remote is one of the very few model train items that will actually appreciate in value?   Perhaps dealers should consider charging more than MSRP or just sit on them for 5 to 10 years and then really ask a premium price.

I think I might pick a few up also, and sell them down the road to some chump... or will I be the chump and break even at best in a few years.

They will die with the technology. Only our loco shells will hold value, so long as we can find something to put between track voltage and the motor. Sell now!

gunrunnerjohn posted:

 

I don't want to be too picky, but reducing the choices down to one, the phone app, doesn't seem the right way to go!

Not being picky, variety is good practice. One should never keep all their eggs in just one basket!

I've always preferred DCS, a lot of that is because I really like their handheld remote. With the pics you posted here, the other guys seem to be  on a much better path to attract more people to the hobby with all the options they are coming up with. 

Also, aren't there still a few things the app can not do that the remote can?  I'm not current on the app updates.

Landsteiner posted:

"Lionel will also end remote production at some point.  "

I doubt if it will occur in my lifetime (give or take 10-20 years with any luck).  Ryan Kunkle stated so in the Notch 6 podcast.  The universal remote and the LionChief remotes are dirt cheap and very simple and reliable.  The key item will be a TMCC/Legacy to LionChief bridge for those using those systems and a LC to TMCC/Legacy bridge for those who want to use their LC or universal remote to talk to the occasional Legacy loco.  It appears this is feasible.

Personally, I very much prefer physical remotes for TVs, cable, Bose radios and would prefer them for video games if I played them.  Even cars with gigantic touchscreens maintain some physical controls for exactly the reasons people have mentioned for the MTH remote.  I prefer a mouse and keyboard for computers to touchscreens, which is another area where us older folks tend to like the tactile utility of non-virtual technology.

You are correct in the sense they are taking a chance.  However, not sure if you own, or have used, the DCS mini commander but it comes off like a tv remote from the late 80s.  Given that starter sets are seemingly aimed at entry level hobbyists which includes younger people to a large extent, I have a different perspective on the risk (e.g., how many folks don't have a smartphone).

Also, from a business perspective I can understand why MTH does not want to invest in hardware technology that is in large respects obsolete.  My sense is Lionel is going in the same direction and that is why you are seeing expansion in Lionchief plus - it is an inexpensive remote built with off the shelf widely available components and it can be transitioned to an app easily.  It is stuck with Legacy on the high end, but at least in that segment the users will pay the premium for the remote and keep that afloat for a while.  Remember Lionel had the same issue with Legacy remotes a number of years ago - the had to re-engineer the internals and they were unavailable for several years.  Then they made a big batch and my guess is that the big batch is what is still feeding the inventory given the low volume of users relative to train hobbyists.

In any event, always an interesting exchange of views here.  Have a good day.

I had already jumped into command control with both feet once I ran the Legacy Visionline Big Boy with the Cab-2.  Then in the not to distant past I felt ready to pony up for DCS as well since MTH makes some train Lionel never has that I wanted.  Then before I pulled the trigger this whole the remote is no more thing came up.  Whelp, with that I never did buy it.  Instead I went a different path, DCC.  This does limit me from being able to run MTH's and Lionel's locomotives at the same time, but at least I can run them knowing I'll always be able to have a remote in my hand.  So my layout is switchable between TMCC/Legacy and DCC.  The best part, I can still control the blocks and turnouts with LCS when in DCC.

This topic seems to have been pretty well covered in multiple pages with most posts boiling down to personal preference. Regardless; I’ll add my 2 cents.

I’ve got one DCS remote (upgraded to v6.10) that I use no more than once or twice each week (“and only on Sunday” 😉) with the majority of my train running being handled from either my old iPhone 6 or my newer XS.  In fact; the old 6 is exclusively used for running trains and is kept on my transformer stand next to the DCS remote.

Insofar as MY personal preference; I do like the tactile feel of the thumb wheel, whistle and bell buttons and direction control when using the remote.  On the other hand; the more I use my iPhones to run trains, the better I’ve become at “knowing” where the horn button is without looking and I don’t need to use direction control as an emergency stop when I have an “oh s@@t” situation as a simple thumb bump to the lower left of the speed gauge will drop the speed to zero.

As a few others have posted, I’ve also found the iPhone easier to use when modifying the identity of an engine and when switching back and forth when operating multiple trains.  Moving engines between active and inactive is also a snap using the iPhone.

I think MartyR has shown some entrepreneurial spirit though!  He’s got me thinking about conducting a raffle for my DCS remote with the winner being notified upon my death.  I’m thinking $25 a chance might be a nice round number. 🤔😁 

Curt

There's people who, for physical limitations and/or disabilities, cannot use Smart Screen technologies - swiping alone is near impossible to accomplish, let alone frustrating, which negates the entire purpose of the application. The DCS remote, as well as the original TMCC remote or Cab1L with their respective analog buttons, are applicable alternatives for some of these folks who still want to run trains via a remote. However, from personal experience, the DCS remote is the easiest to use for a disabled person (notably those with hand-spasms) due to the thumbwheel, which while not perfect, is easier to control than the red dial on the various Cab remotes.

I believe there will always be some relatively easy to use remote controls in the O-gauge hobby. Lionel has kind of gone this way with the various LionChief applications and I predict they will to take the lead on future developments as well.  

The other thing that I don't like about the app. there is no keyboard,  I was going to keep it just as switch track control panel. But I have to swipe and scroll to  what I want. On the remote I just enter the switch number and there it is. Engines the same way. I have thirty switches in my remote and they are just a number away. If I remember correctly on the app they only list  I think five at a time, and the print is to small and you can't change the print size. I used a dedicated I Pad mini.

Holding on to your remote as long as you can seems fine except when MTH stops making updates and upgrades. Then you have what amounts to a sonic remote (remember those pinging remotes) that work great but no longer have a TV that responds to it.

Ah Space Command just like the one that the Air Force will soon have.

AlanHN

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Paul Kallus posted:

There's people who, for physical limitations and/or disabilities, cannot use Smart Screen technologies - swiping alone is near impossible to accomplish, let alone frustrating, which negates the entire purpose of the application. The DCS remote, as well as the original TMCC remote or Cab1L with their respective analog buttons, are applicable alternatives for some of these folks who still want to run trains via a remote. However, from personal experience, the DCS remote is the easiest to use for a disabled person (notably those with hand-spasms) due to the thumbwheel, which while not perfect, is easier to control than the red dial on the various Cab remotes.

I believe there will always be some relatively easy to use remote controls in the O-gauge hobby. Lionel has kind of gone this way with the various LionChief applications and I predict they will to take the lead on future developments as well.  

Paul,

I'll differ with you that the apps allow those with disabilities to participate better. There is an older member in our train club that has Parkinsons and operating the remotes with the tiny buttons is extremely difficult, let alone holding them like we do. The app with larger buttons ( on a 11 inch tablet) and the use of a weighted stylus has been much easier for him to use. Before the apps, he was limited to conventional operation only using transformer handles.

Smart devices have all sorts assistive technologies and add-on devices in many forms that help facilitate those with differing disabilities, something that the remotes barely even address.

H1000

Rod Stewart posted:

I just saw a NIB handheld go for about $260 on ebay. Seems somewhat high to me. What is msrp on these?

Rod

$200 MSRP for the new catalog number one in 2020 V1.

$170 MSRP for the old catalog number one in 2019 V2.

Was it a new one or the old one?

{edit} Never mind, I found it - it was an old one for $272.  Of course a set with a TIU included sold for $300 a few days before.... might have been an older TIU, but it' wasn't a Rev G (said DCS on the cover, not Proto 2 like the  Rev G did).  I probably would have gone for the one with the TIU as a spare for the extra $28.   )

-Dave

Smartphone/app/whatever control is simply not an option IMO as the primary control input for a system where real world hardware can be damaged if you lose control. I don't want to by typing in a passcode, waiting for my phone to update, closing out whatever popup is up at the moment, etc. while a train is running off the track. There's a reason nobody operates industrial machinery like cranes with a smartphone.

I use both dedicated remotes and touchscreens on my layout. The touchscreen is nice, and can speed up some things like major switching operations, but is never used solo - it is just a compliment to the dedicated remote.

I run DCC, not DCS, so I'm not directly impacted by the current conversation. But I will say, if you're looking for options, it's worth considering. PS3 locos support DCC out of the box, so that part is easy.

The NCE remote, complete with hardkeys.

$_35

And JMRI on an iPad with a scale layout map with touchscreen control for turnouts, macros, accessories, etc.:

Capture

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thor73 posted:
I run DCC, not DCS, so I'm not directly impacted by the current conversation. But I will say, if you're looking for options, it's worth considering. PS3 locos support DCC out of the box, so that part is easy.

Easy?

The same old statement comes up from the DCC crowd, but it's getting a little tiresome!   The only way to go to DCC is to abandon all your PS/2 and Lionel TMCC/Legacy locomotives!  Hardly a realistic option for the vast majority of users! 

Perhaps someone like NCE will come up with a remote that speaks all languages. Looks like the need is already there.  Other than your smart phone.  I have an old Buick Reatta which has a touch screen and I remember when it was new I thought it was so cool and everyone who got in the car did also. Till I almost rear ended a car which stopped in the middle of the block and I was looking at my touch screen. Same problem with using a smart phone to run your trains. You spend so much time looking at the screen you don't see your trains.  Kind of like watching movies with subtitles.           j

thor73 posted:

Smartphone/app/whatever control is simply not an option IMO as the primary control input for a system where real world hardware can be damaged if you lose control. I don't want to by typing in a passcode, waiting for my phone to update, closing out whatever popup is up at the moment, etc. while a train is running off the track. There's a reason nobody operates industrial machinery like cranes with a smartphone.

I use both dedicated remotes and touchscreens on my layout. The touchscreen is nice, and can speed up some things like major switching operations, but is never used solo - it is just a compliment to the dedicated remote.

I run DCC, not DCS, so I'm not directly impacted by the current conversation. But I will say, if you're looking for options, it's worth considering. PS3 locos support DCC out of the box, so that part is easy.

The NCE remote, complete with hardkeys.

$_35

And JMRI on an iPad with a scale layout map with touchscreen control for turnouts, macros, accessories, etc.:

Capture

That would not be an option for me or many others. I have several locomotives and replacing them would be impossible.

One thing about trains, it doesn't matter where they are going, it's having the sense to get on.

gunrunnerjohn posted:
thor73 posted:
I run DCC, not DCS, so I'm not directly impacted by the current conversation. But I will say, if you're looking for options, it's worth considering. PS3 locos support DCC out of the box, so that part is easy.

Easy?

The same old statement comes up from the DCC crowd, but it's getting a little tiresome!   The only way to go to DCC is to abandon all your PS/2 and Lionel TMCC/Legacy locomotives!  Hardly a realistic option for the vast majority of users! 

I couldn't agree more. Currently switching to DCC is just plain unrealistic for the above reason. 

Rod

We are never too old to learn something stupid....

Rod Stewart posted:
gunrunnerjohn posted:
thor73 posted:
I run DCC, not DCS, so I'm not directly impacted by the current conversation. But I will say, if you're looking for options, it's worth considering. PS3 locos support DCC out of the box, so that part is easy.

Easy?

The same old statement comes up from the DCC crowd, but it's getting a little tiresome!   The only way to go to DCC is to abandon all your PS/2 and Lionel TMCC/Legacy locomotives!  Hardly a realistic option for the vast majority of users! 

I couldn't agree more. Currently switching to DCC is just plain unrealistic for the above reason. 

Rod

I was faced with many of the same concerns when I made the decision to go digital some years back, and decided on DCC. I have been very happy with that decision.

I thought that might be of interest to some. Didn't realize it was the "same old tiresome statement".

If MTH had the old Mike Wolf spirit, they would find a contractor to make and support the remotes. Someone here suggested DCE or one of the HO DCC crowd. I'd like to see that--and some cooperation between MTH and whomever on this issue. What's next? Ford eliminates steering wheels and tells drivers to go use their app? Oh wait--we'll have to wait for self-driving cars. After that, the steering wheel is optional!

Honestly, I'll be happy to freeze my layout where it is. 6.1 is stable and pretty bug free as far as I can tell. It is successful, mature technology. Let me remove the burden from Mike of ever having to sell me anything ever again...

Don

Don M.

"If MTH had the old Mike Wolf spirit, they would find a contractor to make and support the remotes. Someone here suggested DCE or one of the HO DCC crowd."

I assume you mean NCE?  I doubt they or any other DCC manufacturer would be interested in helping MTH in any way, due to historical issues. Some bad karma there .

thor73 posted:
gunrunnerjohn posted:

Well, telling me that it's a good idea to scrap 150 locomotives isn't particularly a good idea.

I admit, sadly, I don't have that many, lol.

I can count all of mine on both hands and have fingers left over.  

Regardless, it isn't worth it to convert to anything else.

I think DCC might be a possibility for me. Almost all my engines are MTH and PS3, only a couple are Lionel and not DCC compatible. I probably won't switch completely, or at least not for some time yet, but I've always liked the NCE DCC systems and thought it might be fun to have one. My long term plan has always been to one day try and add an NCE system on a separate loop of track or an additional layout. Always sounded like something that might be fun to me.

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