Is this a silly layout?

I got some extra track and power goodies on order.  Now the waiting.  

My MTH train is still in the shop getting it's board replaced/upgraded from 2.0 to 3.0.  So, I waited on the MTH Commander.  I'll get that when the train is ready (boards are on backorder).

I went ahead and got a PowerHouse 185 (more is ALWAYS better, right???) and the TMCC lock-on.

I'll figure out how to most easily add power drops once everything gets here.  I've got lots of electrical supplies/wire/etc already.

Thanks again for all the help!!!

I received a couple big boxes full of parts this afternoon.  Assembly has begun.  So glad I didn't procrastinate...

The O60 turns don't seem to want to lay flat.  Are there any tricks I should try?  Or, will they settle with time?

Thanks!!
Skip

Skipdup posted:

The O60 turns don't seem to want to lay flat.  Are there any tricks I should try?  Or, will they settle with time?

Thanks!!
Skip

Doubtful.  I put together a small layout on my concrete basement floor with MTH Real Trax, using both new and used track.  Same problem, curved track didn't want to lay flat.  Ended up building a 6' x 16' table just so I could screw the track down to something and hold it flat.

Just wanted to update...  It's "done".  Soon as I clean up, I will post some pictures.  Thanks again for all the help.  I'm very happy with the layout and the kids are really digging it.

I'm really bummed about my switches (O60 Command Control/Remote - 6-81951 & 6-81950).  Severely bummed.  Like ready to put a match to them.  I'm having constant derailments.  Only one (out of six) seems to be working consistently.  These things are too darned expensive to have issues right out of the box.

I don't really know enough to diagnose.  But it seems like they're sticking in one direction and the anti-derailment fails.  Also, sometimes even the switch won't activate/switch them - you have to move them by hand (turning the light).  Don't know if they're faulty or need tweaking.  Will try and research later tonight.

Also, one of the (direction indicator) LEDs was not working.

Are issues like this normal with the switches?  Am I just unlucky?

Thanks again,
Skip

Skipdup posted:

Just wanted to update...  It's "done".  Soon as I clean up, I will post some pictures.  Thanks again for all the help.  I'm very happy with the layout and the kids are really digging it.

I'm really bummed about my switches (O60 Command Control/Remote - 6-81951 & 6-81950).  Severely bummed.  Like ready to put a match to them.  I'm having constant derailments.  Only one (out of six) seems to be working consistently.  These things are too darned expensive to have issues right out of the box.

I don't really know enough to diagnose.  But it seems like they're sticking in one direction and the anti-derailment fails.  Also, sometimes even the switch won't activate/switch them - you have to move them by hand (turning the light).  Don't know if they're faulty or need tweaking.  Will try and research later tonight.

Also, one of the (direction indicator) LEDs was not working.

Are issues like this normal with the switches?  Am I just unlucky?

Thanks again,
Skip

I’ve had an issue with a few Fastrack o72 switches that would stick. I took the bottom off and looked it over. It appeared to me that there was some extra plastic on the piece that throws the switch. I shaved off a bit and never had a problem after. Frustrating for sure on a new switch. 

As for the led. Same thing, you could look at the word connection, maybe it’s loose?  Worst case you may have to return for replacement  

good luck!  

MikeWalter posted:

I’ve had an issue with a few Fastrack o72 switches that would stick. I took the bottom off and looked it over. It appeared to me that there was some extra plastic on the piece that throws the switch. I shaved off a bit and never had a problem after. Frustrating for sure on a new switch. 

As for the led. Same thing, you could look at the word connection, maybe it’s loose?  Worst case you may have to return for replacement  

good luck!  

I'm tempted to open them up and take a look.  But I'm nervous that might come back to  haunt me, if I need to return.  I would understand the reseller or Lionel being suspicious if it was obvious I'd been in there...

That looks really nice. I wish I had the room to do that for Christmas.

Skip, that looks real nice, thanks for sharing the pics!   Any chance we can see a video of trains running?   You might want to put down a long piece of felt (white or green) to muffle the sound.

Question:  did the O60 curves ever "settle" and lay flat?  I haven't seen that problem myself, but have not bought track recently, and the production runs might vary some.

Sorry about your turnout issues, O60s for me have been bullet-proof, but have not purchased one recently. That is a bummer.   -Ken

Ken-Oscale posted:

Skip, that looks real nice, thanks for sharing the pics!   Any chance we can see a video of trains running?   You might want to put down a long piece of felt (white or green) to muffle the sound.

Question:  did the O60 curves ever "settle" and lay flat?  I haven't seen that problem myself, but have not bought track recently, and the production runs might vary some.

Sorry about your turnout issues, O60s for me have been bullet-proof, but have not purchased one recently. That is a bummer.   -Ken

I was going to video last night.  Couldn't keep a train on track long enough to video!  I'm going to look at everything again today with fresh eyes.  Will probably open a switch up and see what I see.  Maybe I can tweak or lube something...

The O60 turns haven't settled.  Doesn't seem to really bother the train(s).  Tempted to put may heat gun to them. 

I haven't got the right parts to run two trains at once yet.  So I can run MTH or Lionel.  But, I suspect Santa might have a LionChief RS-3 under the tree, so Christmas morning should be more fun.

I was super tempted while I started assembling all this to go order a Cab1L & Base 1L, so I could switch the turnouts from the couch.  I could see great value in that!  But, once I saw the turnouts were having issues, I'm glad I didn't spend...

 Thanks again All!
Skip

Here's one example of my mad "maker" skills.  Or is it supreme engineering acumen?  

Somehow, it does seem (to me) somewhat prototypical for under the tree...

Great topic!    I've skimmed thru it and there a lots of good responses.

One thing:  "Is This A Silly Layout?"

No such thing.  If you like it, and it works, it's not silly

Some of the switches "might" be working better today.  Wondering if they need to "beak-in"???

One is clearly worse than all the others.  Going to try and pull that one later today and take a look.

One switch (the one behind the tree) has been 100% (thankfully) since I laid it.

So weird...

In my experience, that is weird.  I have seven O-72 FasTrack switches, four O-48's, and a O-72 Wye.  They've been pretty bulletproof from day one so I'll be interested to see what you find.

My layout is in garage and temp of room varies, anti derailment seems to be affected by cold, as I have issues similar, that did not happen in Aug

  Break-in being needed is a possibilty if plastic "flash" was the excess plastic removed, (the thin excess material caught between mold/die sections in the seams).

Cloth of any kind under the track will make a huge difference in the noise produced. Carpets, bed spreads, terry cloth, and fleece work well, though you may want to add tvs protection too (cheap) with the added static risks.

The bigger brick was a wise choice.

  It is a very nice space you've got going. Merry Christmas 

The sticking turn-outs is one thing.  I could move those by hand and still enjoy watching the train go around.

What's killing the deal is both trains (Lionchief Polar Express & MTH AeroTrain) are going straight over the turn section.  I've tried "tweaking" the "rail turny thingy" so it sits closer to the main rail - but doesn't seem to make any difference.  Unless the train is crawling, I can't make it even partially  around the layout.

This is happening with five of the six turn-outs.  One has been 100% reliable.  The single good one is up under the tree, so I can't "presently" (see what I did there?) get to it to compare it against the others...

Does anyone have any advice?  Plan to call Lionel & the shop where I purchased after Christmas.  But dang, this really stinks.

The video below shows the issue.  The train should turn to it's right.  I'm running it at probably a little less than 1/3 speed on the lionchief remote - maybe 1/4.

Is there any way this is somehow user error?  Have I done something stupid and just don't see it?

Best,
Skip

Skipdup posted:

The sticking turn-outs is one thing.  I could move those by hand and still enjoy watching the train go around.

What's killing the deal is both trains (Lionchief Polar Express & MTH AeroTrain) are going straight over the turn section.  I've tried "tweaking" the "rail turny thingy" so it sits closer to the main rail - but doesn't seem to make any difference.  Unless the train is crawling, I can't make it even partially  around the layout.

This is happening with five of the six turn-outs.  One has been 100% reliable.  The single good one is up under the tree, so I can't "presently" (see what I did there?) get to it to compare it against the others...

Does anyone have any advice?  Plan to call Lionel & the shop where I purchased after Christmas.  But dang, this really stinks.

The video below shows the issue.  The train should turn to it's right.  I'm running it at probably a little less than 1/3 speed on the lionchief remote - maybe 1/4.

Is there any way this is somehow user error?  Have I done something stupid and just don't see it?

Best,
Skip

 

Your switches are acting like they're still not getting enough power.  I have some MTH Scale Trax switches that acted the same way yours appear to be acting.  They were fairly sluggish and didn't always fully throw when powering them from the accessory terminals on a Lionel CW-80 (even after messing with the adjustable voltage setting).  I then hooked them up to the 14 volt accessory terminals of an MRC 270 watt Dual-Power transformer.  They didn't take "no" for an answer after that!

  The points (moving rails) must close 100% or the wheels will pick at the points and climb them If they don't, there is something wrong mechanically.

Wheel gauge vs the guide rails can cause this too. The guide rails use the back of a wheel for tracking while the opposing wheel losses its flanging ability going across gaps needed in the turnout rails.

Are they operating with a nice snap when they work?

It's not likely your fault, but will require you to look and watch close to decide exactly what's wrong.  I'd consider a call ahead, trip to and testing at the store asap to find at least one more that works better.

The track is getting 18.26V on the turn-out - ahead and behind the points.  I have a power connected two curve pieces away.

Here's a video of it operating.  Seems "snappy" to me...  but I've never dealt with any of this before.  All the switches "snap" like the example in the video.

Thanks again!
Skip

Hope everyone is having a wonderful Christmas.

Now that all the presents are cleared out, I was able to get to the one turn-out that's working correctly.

It appears the functioning turn-out's switch rail has a closer tolerance when compared to the malfunctioning one.  I took it apart, but I don't see any way to adjust.  

I took some more video and slowed it down.  The front wheels of the train are squeezing through, pushing the pointer rails slightly, and going straight.  The subsequent wheels do not squeeze through, and make the turn, derailing the train.

I've tried bending the pointer rails every which way - with no effect.  At this point, I'm afraid I'm doing more harm than good.

I'll plan on calling Lionel tomorrow (assuming they're open).  And/or returning the five bad ones and ordering new/different ones...  maybe from different supplier in the hope of getting a different lot.

Really frustrating.

Before even seeing the "correct" switch I was going to suggest that your rails have too much gap. I have had this same issue and I fixed it by putting a flat head screwdriver behind the moveable rail and using needle nose pliers to bend the moveable rail over the screwdriver to get it closer. The thin pilot wheel flanges (the Polar Express Berk seems to be a bad one...) easily creep into that gap and cause a derailment. There is a youtube video of someone doing the fix that I described should you feel the need to check it out before surgery.

Skipdup posted:

Hope everyone is having a wonderful Christmas.

Now that all the presents are cleared out, I was able to get to the one turn-out that's working correctly.

It appears the functioning turn-out's switch rail has a closer tolerance when compared to the malfunctioning one.  I took it apart, but I don't see any way to adjust.  

I took some more video and slowed it down.  The front wheels of the train are squeezing through, pushing the pointer rails slightly, and going straight.  The subsequent wheels do not squeeze through, and make the turn, derailing the train.

I've tried bending the pointer rails every which way - with no effect.  At this point, I'm afraid I'm doing more harm than good.

I'll plan on calling Lionel tomorrow (assuming they're open).  And/or returning the five bad ones and ordering new/different ones...  maybe from different supplier in the hope of getting a different lot.

Really frustrating.

We had a great Christmas.  I got a K-Line Pennsylvania Railroad Mikado 2-8-2 Steam Locomotive, seems to be working okay, it was used so it needs a little work. 

I had this issue with one of my o72 switches.  I was able to fix, but having 5 bad ones that are all new, wow that is extremely frustrating.  I hope you get it resolved quickly, as there is nothing like little switch annoyances to ruin your layout progress.  

Good luck and have a safe and happy new year!

-Mike

So, I received two replacement turn-outs.  One works splendidly!  One. 

The other is the worse than all the others.

Waiting on the other three.  Should be here next week.

I have to wonder...  Is this part of the hobby?  Growing pains?  User error?  Just unlucky?

On another note...  The RS-3 LionChief+ I got for Christmas is HUGE!  Were they that big?  Or is there something about scale I don't understand?

Best,
Skip

Skip, it seems really weird because I haven't had a single issue with FasTrack turnouts and I don't recall a lot of chatter here about problems with them.  I have the LC+ RS-3.  It's not scale.  I had an Atlas version.  I believe it was scale and it was a little bigger.

Not weird. I’ve had considerable issues with many Lionel new out of the box. Turnouts included. Some say made in China.

So’s my 4th  Apple iPhone and they’ve been perfect. Must be another reason.

The quality isn't military spec anymore

The overhead shots finally loaded today. That gap is the issue.

It looks like the boss pushing the deversion rail (lower) needs to be built up inside the notch (along the vertical wall in the notch and/or the notch's top where it covers the rail's (partially hidden) tab.  

I bet a toothpick there between point and boss for a test would tell you.  Building the plastic up slightly to cause the point to close fully shouldn't be hard with gel super glue and/or plastic scrap, but make Lionel concede to your mods first so you are not violating the warranty. Make them put it IN PRINT(or e-mail..etc, not by voice) Send an overhead shot of each bad one too, explaining it.  Otherwise just keep sending them back till your satisfied or they grow weary and actually test some before shipping.

A second thought, the very end (not seen) of the slider might be too long. Both the bosses look like they could travel a bit more.

(oh, that must be the trim mentioned needing disassembly. Makes more sense when you can see one well, lol)

Adriatic posted:

The quality isn't military spec anymore

The overhead shots finally loaded today. That gap is the issue.

It looks like the boss pushing the deversion rail (lower) needs to be built up inside the notch (along the vertical wall in the notch and/or the notch's top where it covers the rail's (partially hidden) tab.  

I bet a toothpick there between point and boss for a test would tell you.  Building the plastic up slightly to cause the point to close fully shouldn't be hard with gel super glue and/or plastic scrap, but make Lionel concede to your mods first so you are not violating the warranty. Make them put it IN PRINT(or e-mail..etc, not by voice) Send an overhead shot of each bad one too, explaining it.  Otherwise just keep sending them back till your satisfied or they grow weary and actually test some before shipping.

Adriatic- Yeah, it sure looks to me like the pointer rails need to be spread further apart from each other and maybe raised off the track bed a hair.  Is that what you're saying too?

When I took one apart, it looks like the slider is moving it's full movement (based on the gear's teeth that it's connected to).  It seems like the problem might be where the metal rails attach to the plastic slider.  That might be what you're saying (still rusty on some of this terminology).

I can't quite figure out where you're suggesting shimming with a toothpick.  Is it where the arrow is below?

Sorry, I'm probably being dense.

How are the metal rails/pointer fingers attached to that plastic slider?  I can't quite "see" or figure it out.  It almost seems like a press, or friction, fit.  But I'm scared I'm going to break if I continue exploring that too aggressively.

Thanks much!
Skip

Skipdup posted:

Skip, your best bet is to start comparing the bad switches to a good switch (with a magnifying glass and a measuring ruler if need be), and see if you can spot any difference(s) in the construction and/or the assembly.  I'm sure it's very minor, but the answer has got to be there somewhere.

One of the problems with injection molded plastic used for precision tasks is you make your molds for one plastic compound and then you have to find another supplier for one reason or another and you have different shrink properties. You cannot afford to rework your molds each time you change your resin or supplier. A good engineer can often take this into consideration in the design process. In this case a strong detent on the points end of the actuation linkage and some overshoot ability in both directions would have prevented the different resin characteristics from causing failure of the mechanism.   You can see this strategy  used on switches where you mount your own switch machines. These switch machines all use a spring in the linkage chain to the points so the actuation mechanism can overshoot in both directions. They use a second spring for detent.   Poorly engineered to begin with ! Probably some DWEEB who never had a train set as a kid. Hey Lionel, want me to fix your problem?  j                                                                                                                                                    

If that is as far as the points will go I would try lightly bending the straight rail so it meets the points when they are in the curved position as seen in your pictures. It is possible the straight rail is the problem. That really sucks, you'd think for all the money you spend on those switch tracks they would just work.