it's SPRINGTIME

overlandflyer posted:

WindupGuy posted:

...  I know of a handful that exist, ...:

ok James, fess up... this is really one of your home-brew mechanical concoctions, right? ...

  I know... it looks too odd to be a Marx original, right?  But, Marx did produce the two-speed windup motor.  I would like to find another one someday.

My home-brew clockwork motors and modified motors are another story - they will probably be puzzling to future wind-up enthusiasts... 

Long-Distance dual mainspring motor:

Dual mainspring, four wheel drive, 0-6-0 motor for AF 429 conversion project:

Modified Marx Riser Gear motor w/ low speed gearing and six-wheel drive:

Modified Marx Riser Gear motor for extreme low speed operation:

Modified Marx Riser Gear Motor with six wheels for a 333 conversion project:

Modified Marx Riser Gear motor with Marx diesel wheels and gearing for four-wheel drive:

That's all I could find in a quick search of my pictures...

A small overview of the collection

Adolph Schuhmann

Brimtoy

Fandor

Issmayer

Bing

Karl Bub

Bing

American Flyer

Hafner

Marklin

Arne

Arne posted:

A small overview of the collection ...

American Flyer

i believe this locomotive is a Type XIII.  not easy to tell apart from a Type XII if the aren't side by side, but i have never seen a Type XIII like yours that uses the standard Flyer motor and not one of the cheaper Hummer motors, though in Schuweiler's text, he does state that the key can be either right or left side.  actually i'd really like to see the motor to see how they trimmed the frame to fit that shell.

 
this is a Type XIII w/ the larger Hummer motor and below is a shot showing both the large and small motors in Type XIII shells.  all the Hummer motors had left side keys.  some versions had thin wire screw-in keys.  both these have fixed non-removable keys, though i've seen some where the bow can slide on/ off.

the large Hummer motor is dimensionally about the size of the standard Flyer motor, but the front of the Hummer motor slopes more so it can clear the casting support bar that passes through the shell between the cylinders and stack.

sometimes it's the little things that drive me nuts. ...
cheers...gary

some OD windups from Marx...

IMO one of the sharpest Marx tinplate locomotives was the #897 that was made as both clockwork and electric versions in olive drab...

clockwork tank loads weren't the most robust so finding ones that still operate is a real treat.

cheers...gary

Came across a little bit of info today regarding the infamous "ALL CLEAR" locomotive .... I cant remember if it was @FRENCHTRAINS  or @sncf231e who obtained that particular rarity, but for Arne or Daniel I will throw the link in

https://blogs.bl.uk/business/2...iness-ip-centre.html

Shows the patent and drawings for it

And some more HORNBY, British first; note the realistic model on the set box,

And French, with a very optimistic picture on the box in regard of the content.

Daniel

I have been enjoying this thread.  It has opened up a whole new world of toy trains for me. If I ever get bored with the direction that my collecting energies have taken me I have a good idea what I might be collecting in the decades to come.  

I have two clock work engines in my collection; both of them American Flyer.  I made a conscious decision not to pursue collecting this portion of American Flyer production.  However, that doesn't mean I limit myself from gathering information about all trains windup.  Thanks everyone for sharing your collections and information.

My two engines:

I keep them stored at Promontory.  

Northwoods Flyer

Greg

Greg, when the big EMP finally hits wipes out all the electricity coast to coast, clockworkers will still be enjoying their trains without pushing them around and making little chug chug, clang clang noises.

Looks like you have a #13 and a #35 (type XV) there. They should be able to pull a few cars.

Greg J. Turinetti posted:

...

I keep them stored at Promontory.  

Northwoods Flyer

Greg

two good example locomotives...the Type XIV (black) with a nice tapered boiler was the Flyer workhorse of their mid-sized sets from the early 20's right through to the end of cataloged clockwork trains in the early 30's.  cataloged as #13 (and #14) it did also appear with the cast-in number...

also a nice example of a Type XV, the No.35 (red).  unlike Hafner and Marx where bells in clockwork locomotives were more the rule than the exception, only a handful of Flyer clockworks were bell ringers...

note to the non-Prewar Flyer fan... Type <Roman Numeral> numbers are an invention of Alan Schuweiler and were never used before being published in his Greenberg Guide to A.F. Prewar O Gauge.  roughly following a chronological timeline, it make a horribly confusing original numbering system much more understandable.

cheers...gary

overlandflyer posted:

Greg J. Turinetti posted:

...

I keep them stored at Promontory.  

Northwoods Flyer

Greg

two good example locomotives...the Type XIV (black) with a nice tapered boiler was the Flyer workhorse of their mid-sized sets from the early 20's right through to the end of cataloged clockwork trains in the early 30's.  cataloged as #13 (and #14) it did also appear with the cast-in number...

drat, i got that wrong... the last gen Flyer is hard to tell apart.  i already posted this pic of a side by side by side...

front to back... Type XIII, Type XII (yours) & Type XIV.  it also makes more sense that it has the non-drive rod motor.  this is the most common motor in a Type XII.

actually yours is a bit unusual as most have the cast in A.F.10...

fun stuff!

overlandflyer posted:

Arne posted:

A small overview of the collection ...

American Flyer

i believe this locomotive is a Type XIII.  not easy to tell apart from a Type XII if the aren't side by side, but i have never seen a Type XIII like yours that uses the standard Flyer motor and not one of the cheaper Hummer motors, though in Schuweiler's text, he does state that the key can be either right or left side.  actually i'd really like to see the motor to see how they trimmed the frame to fit that shell.

 
this is a Type XIII w/ the larger Hummer motor and below is a shot showing both the large and small motors in Type XIII shells.  all the Hummer motors had left side keys.  some versions had thin wire screw-in keys.  both these have fixed non-removable keys, though i've seen some where the bow can slide on/ off.

the large Hummer motor is dimensionally about the size of the standard Flyer motor, but the front of the Hummer motor slopes more so it can clear the casting support bar that passes through the shell between the cylinders and stack.

sometimes it's the little things that drive me nuts. ...
cheers...gary

Hello Gary,

after a look in the Schuweiler book, I think my loco is a Type XII, here more pictures.

Greetings

Arne

Thanks Jim and Gary,

I appreciate the information on my engines. 

I bought the red engine to use with my Prairie State cars.

Northwoods Flyer

Greg

oh oh, time to divert attention from my blunder.... ↓↓↓ quick... look down there ↓↓↓

I believe I have posted this picture before, but here's one of three clockwork AF engines I have. This one is a No. 1 Type IX, with a 328 tender. The other two, which I have not taken pictures of, are a No. 13 Type XIV with a closed frame 120 and a No. 13 Type XIV with a 119 tender. One of them came with a dark blue 1108 and 1107 B&O coach.

Arne posted:

overlandflyer posted:

Arne posted:

A small overview of the collection ...

American Flyer

Hello Gary,

after a look in the Schuweiler book, I think my loco is a Type XII, here more pictures.

i've been working on this off and on for a while...

top to bottom (all pictures in the same scale):
visual clues to differentiate American Flyer Types XII, XIII & XIV.

Type XIV (6.75" length*)  - # of rivets, running board to check valve pipe: right side=6, left side=7;  large space between center rivet strip and check valve.

Type XII (6.375" length*) - # of rivets, running board to check valve pipe: right side=5, left side=6;  very small space between center rivet strip and check valve;  stack to bell to dome spacing different than Type XIII.

Type XIII (5.625" length*) - # of rivets, running board to check valve pipe: right side=4, left side=5; check valve touches center rivet strip;  stack to bell to dome spacing different than Type XII.

*overall length is horizontal distance between cab roof and pilot.

That´s help. You are right, it´s a Type XIII, 5.625" length.

Thank you.

Arne

Arne posted:

That´s help. You are right, it´s a Type XIII, 5.625" length.

...

so i'll tell you at least IMO, despite yours being the smallest of the three, you have a less common version (granted, only based on the few dozen i've ever seen) of the XIII with the much better motor.  while Hummer windups are good engines, they were purposely differentiated from the standard Flyer full size motor locomotives which were lifetime guaranteed.

the other close Flyer pair are Types VII and VIII which doesn't help that the Schuweiler text  shows photos of what is captioned as both, but in fact is two Type VII's  (2nd ed, p40).

fortunately there is an easy visual clue that can be picked up from pretty much any angle...

Flyer Type VII

Flyer Type VIII

at 6 3/8" OAL, the Type VIII is a smaller version of the VII (6 5/8" OAL), but visually the front rivet ring on a Type VII is well in front of the end of the running boards while the rivet ring on the Type VIII touches the end of the boards.

fun stuff!

American Flyer clockwork boxcab electric

Lionel2056 posted:

I believe I have posted this picture before, but here's one of three clockwork AF engines I have. This one is a No. 1 Type IX, with a 328 tender. The other two, which I have not taken pictures of, are a No. 13 Type XIV with a closed frame 120 and a No. 13 Type XIV with a 119 tender. One of them came with a dark blue 1108 and 1107 B&O coach.

many of the Type variations Schuweiler notes are in terms of motor features, most notably the inclusion of brakes and siderods on locomotives in the higher end sets.  while these are important to note, i am more interested in casting differences within types and the Type IX clockwork locomotive is the leader of that category in my collection...

l to r:  A.F., A.F. 1 (not listed in the Greenberg text!), A.F. 10 & A.F. 11

probably the most fun about prewar Flyer is that, unlike Lionel, it hasn't been studied to death.

cheers...gary

here is an interesting Flyer clockwork locomotive...

Uncatalogued/ Unknown American Flyer ... Type XXI?

i cannot find it listed in the Schuweiler text, but it's electric cousin is...

as sheet metal electric, Type XXII, an uncataloged locomotive produced in the early 30's.  the windup has a Hummer motor, but it's not listed in that section of the Greenberg text either.  it has a slight resemblance and maybe a cheapened version of the Flyer clockwork Type XVIII...

i'd be curious to know if there is another example out there.

overlandflyer posted:

here is an interesting Flyer clockwork locomotive...

Uncatalogued/ Unknown American Flyer ... Type XXI?

i cannot find it listed in the Schuweiler text, but it's electric cousin is...

as sheet metal electric, Type XXII, an uncataloged locomotive produced in the early 30's.  the windup has a Hummer motor, but it's not listed in that section of the Greenberg text either.  it has a slight resemblance and maybe a cheapened version of the Flyer clockwork Type XVIII...

i'd be curious to know if there is another example out there.

I have seen just one with the battery headlight and without the steps in front and it was in an Empire Express Set (not mine).

These are so cool. I should try to get a few. Must be nice to be able to move off the grid and still run O-gauge trains!

Here is a trolley, it has been restored close to its original color.  

While we are on trolleys here is my Orobr ...

No wind up trains unfortunately, but plenty of wind up talking machines!

Brian Liesberg posted:

No wind up trains unfortunately, but plenty of wind up talking machines!

a first generation sound system.... classic!

Brian Liesberg posted:

No wind up trains unfortunately, but plenty of wind up talking machines!

I have an old Victrola number XIV I believe but it needs rewinding and that suckers is over 10 feet long.

Must be something in the air with us clockwork guys , I have a couple too !

(picture stolen from web but same models)

Sonora upright

Brunswick Tabletop

Fatman posted:

Must be something in the air with us clockwork guys , I have a couple too !

Nice!

I've got more than a couple though, I deal in the things!

Brian Liesberg posted:

Fatman posted:

Must be something in the air with us clockwork guys , I have a couple too !

Nice!

I've got more than a couple though, I deal in the things!

Good thing we live on seperate continents , else you would be my new bestest mate buddy pal

I'll let this topic get back on track, but since I can't private message... you can check out some of my stuff here if you're interested:

https://www.facebook.com/Liesbergs/

Nation Wide Lines posted:

Here is a trolley, it has been restored close to its original color.  

hope you don't mind me captioning, but for those without the Schuweiler text or even those with one who have never gotten to the last chapter, this is American Flyer from 1910 according to ARS.  nice!

here is the only contribution i can make from Ch 15... perhaps not an actual cataloged train, but all the NWL i have along with the late Type XII clockwork locomotive shown in that chapter...

at auction, Nation Wide Lines pieces always seem to command bids that typically exceed high estimates.

A little bit excited today ...

Can I preface this with the disclaimer that although not strictly "train " related , I have been admiring many members layouts on the forum and noticed there is a prediliction to having a few tinplate aircraft circling overhead ... I myself have had a similar idea for my future display room, but ever since being a small lad have had a fascination with all thing flight related and have been heavily involved in remote control aircraft, but my true passion in that regard is with airships/zeppelins... To the point that at one stage I built and operated a 17 feet long Radio Controlled Airship .. it was great fun but super expensive as it took 450cu feet of helium ... good if you live in the USA with ample helium deposits BAAAAD if you live here where its all imported ! SO unless it lived in the trailer I couldnt pack it away , and even then it required weekly top ups to stay bouyant ..

But I digress

Sooooo just now I picked up at auction a delightful little Marx Zeppelin

Clockwork and Aluminium bodied I believe ... not much info on the webs I could find about it but 1920/30'S ?

It appears to be different to late Marx ones who had the propellor at the back and key wind underneath

This has the prop at front keywind in rear about 11 inches long apparently and has motor pods similar to the Tippco german zeppelins that Marx imported and sold ...

Be wonderful if anyone knew some accurate history of the piece?

OK without further ado the bits you all came to see .. PICS !

And just so I dont get thrown off the forum ...

Look!!!

Train ....

Brian Liesberg posted:

I'll let this topic get back on track, but since I can't private message... you can check out some of my stuff here if you're interested:

https://www.facebook.com/Liesbergs/

Beautiful stuff Brian. I have my Great Grandfather's 1906 Victor Talking Machine, that needs some work, but in overall nice shape.

Some early Edmonds-Metzel.  These are 3 sets with 4 window cars from 1908 and 1 set with a 3 window car from 1907, extra parts car from 1907 and 1908 setbox. 

The sets include

1) 1908 set, engine with gold stripe below window, 2 piece side rods, blue tender with blue frame, 2 coaches with blue frame, all cars have tiny Type I couplers, came with different style original box, not pictured.

2) 1908 set, engine with no or missing stripe, no side rods, red tender with brown/maroon frame, 2 coaches with brown/maroon frames, all cars have tiny Type I couplers.

3) 1908 set, engine with red stripe, red trim on smokestack (mostly missing), two piece side rods, blue tender with unpainted frame, 1 coach with blue frame, all cars have tiny Type I couplers, came in original box in background.

4) 1907 set, engine with red strip below window, red painted smokestack, red tender, unpainted frame, blue coach, unpainted frame, tiny Type I couplers.

Sorry about the glare, the photos were taken through glass doors.

NWL

Last night was a bit of a collecting pinnacle for me as I managed to score what I think is a very collectible little treasure lets see if you can guess it from the first couple of pictures ?

Yes? No? ... Just by the look of it , my back of the neck hairs started to tingle a bit ... but luckily for me there was also another picture that when I looked hard enough, def got the heart thudding a fair bit harder...

Any Closer ? 

Yep the little plaque inside has two magic little letters E.P. Under a winged wheel

Ernst Planck ( or Plank ) !!!

First I thought the paint was def an overpaint , but on researching this as best I can ( and the fact the loco is not in my hand but still in the UK) I managed to locate one pic on the web of a loco that sold in England in 2014 and the loco there appears to be painted rather than a litho example... This one does appear to have the connecting body bolt painted over tho so that would hint its not factory livery sadly.

Compared to the other example this would appear to be a lesser variant , as it does not have valve rods or cylinders and looks to have never had them previously , same with the cast headlamp... if you look closely you can see the mounting areas on the wheels which have NOT been drilled out and the one remaining cylinder plate doesnt look like its had stuff soldered onto it? Unfortunately the keyside cylinder plate is missing as a casualty of age.

Here is the other more original (?) picture I found

My wheels do not appear to have ever been painted ( as much as I can tell by the pics alone)

I am wondering if my little loco is perhaps a precursor to the more elegantly outfitted one, or simply a less expensive version of the same , I am not sure if EP did various "levels" of manufacture , the Auction site did list their variant as c1900 , which would place them as the first or some of the first Planck O gauge issues (?)

I am really hopng some of the fine members here might have resources or knowledge available to fill in the gaps or dispell any of my research ...

I am pretty stoked to have the opportunity to snaffle something like this . As a collector with a very limited budget (TBH I really cant ever afford higher level toys ) I am amazed at what dogged stalking can uncover out there and am so thankful there is still the occasional seller who doesnt know what they have got and is perfectly happy to pass along something like this at a very affordable pricepoint ... I am also aware the probably repaint would deter high end collectors , which I am thankful for , because I could not have won a more serious bidding war .. I was fully expecting NOT to win this loco , and someone DID have a crack with just a few seconds to go , but I managed to crack back

Fatman posted:

...

Yep the little plaque inside has two magic little letters E.P. Under a winged wheel

Ernst Planck ( or Plank ) !!!

...

nice find... fyi, Max spells it Planck ...

despite the small loss to a little of its chrome shine, there is still quite a bit of "spring" left in the step of this Hoge #500 "Fast Mail" ...

 @overlandflyer Yep Planck is my go to spelling but for some reason USA and internets peeps seem to use PLANK lol !

Its a bit like my last name ... I have spent the whole of my life spelling it , its a general family trait , in fact we are often labelled by it , its pronunciation is a very common name however my forebears decided to spell it correctly while the rest of the world got it wrong !

" Thats Willson, with a double L .... "

( when you think of it , its beginnings are a contraction of Will's Son ... so leaving out the L is an illiterate mistake foisted on the world by the British , Us Scots could spell )

overlandflyer posted:

despite the small loss to a little of its chrome shine, there is still quite a bit of "spring" left in the step of this Hoge #500 "Fast Mail" ...

Verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry noice ! ... I admit to Hoge envy , I would love to find one , they have a certain "life" to them