Ives / American Flyer baggage cars by Rich Art

Harry Henning posted:

We are moving the final load of MEW tooling  & stamping machinery to our site here in Pa. in the next couple of weeks.  Some of the old Rich Art tooling  I was going over will make the Ives / AF baggage car.  Mike has reproduced the complete set in the past, but not the baggage car. I am considering mfg. ONLY this car next year if sufficient interest. I would appreciate any comments on what you think. We are also planning on reproducing the AF wide gauge motors in the spring.  Harry 

Harry,

Actually, RichArt produced three unique revenue cars, none of which Mike has made, to go with their reproduction 4-car Ives passenger sets.  These include the unique RichArt baggage car you mentioned, as well as a unique RichArt Railway Express car and a unique RichArt Railway Post Office car.  The difference between these three cars is the number and location of the cargo doors and small windows Dick Meyer added to his basic Ives passenger car body.  Consider offering for sale the unique RPO and REA cars too.

In addition to the three unique RichArt Ives revenue cars, Dick Meyer also offered his customers the option of adding unique brass name and number plates to the sides of his repro Ives car bodies.  I will be running two eleven-car sets of RichArt cars at Trainfest 2017 including a Milwaukee Road tri-color set and a Prosperty set.  Come see them in action in Milwaukee in just two weeks at Trainfest 2017!

Bob Nelson

Harry or Bob,

Any chance you could provide some pics of the car(s) or a link to some pics?

Thanks,

Steve

RideTheRails posted:

Harry or Bob,

Any chance you could provide some pics of the car(s) or a link to some pics?

Thanks,

Steve

Steve,

Here is a picture of the REA and baggage cars.  Note the custom paint scheme,  REA decal, and unique brass plates.

Below is a link to a video on YouTube of SGMA at Trainfest 2015.  Starting at 1 minute into the video is a RichArt Cascade Bipolar engine in a Milwaukee Road livery pulling RichArt Prosperity cars.  The first two cars are two of RichArts unique revenue cars including a Prosperity baggage car and a Prosperity RPO car.  Note the small windows on both ends of the RichArt RPO car when compared to the REA car above that has small windows on only one end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3D7JxGQUe4

Bob Nelson

Harry, my 2-cents-worth is that, nice as they are (and I have a few), I think Dick Mayer went a little overboard with his Express, PO, and baggage cars.  I don't think you will find enough collectors interested in buying all three to justify the different tooling. 

I do think that Dick's 4-door baggage car, in the configuration of the sample I saw at your booth at York last week, would be a very welcome addition to the Ives and Flyer standard gauge sets.  The Richart versions are scarce as hen's teeth and it would be great to have them available again. Again, not many people are going to buy three of these cars for each set if they differ only in small details.... but I would say many of us would buy a 4-door baggage to complement our Ives and Flyer sets.  

I would also say that since these are to add to existing sets, color matching is going to be critical. For example, I have a Varney & Sirus President's Special set, and then found the Richart 4-door President's Special 4-door baggage. I was surprised to find that the blues were not even close to matching. Fortunately I later found the Richart set which matched the baggage car.  So correct finish is going to be difficult. But I would think there would be a market for the 4-door baggage in Ives black and red Black Diamond, green Northern Limited, orange and maroon Olympian; and in Flyer two-tone blue President's, the dark blue Flying Colonel, and chrome Mayflower. I have some of the Richart versions but would love to fill in the ones I don't have. I would be thrilled if you made these available again.

Would one possibility be to offer an unpainted version so that some of us could have the agony of matching the color ourselves?  After all, how many of the light green Northern Limited are you likely to sell?

thanks for taking on projects like this, great to have someone catering to Standard Gauge collectors!

david

Harry Henning posted:

We are moving the final load of MEW tooling  & stamping machinery to our site here in Pa. in the next couple of weeks.  Some of the old Rich Art tooling  I was going over will make the Ives / AF baggage car.  Mike has reproduced the complete set in the past, but not the baggage car. I am considering mfg. ONLY this car next year if sufficient interest. I would appreciate any comments on what you think. We are also planning on reproducing the AF wide gauge motors in the spring.  Harry 

Harry, 

When I visited Dick's RichArt machine shop in California, I saw what I think was the tooling for RichArt's Ives passenger cars.  A year or two later Dick told me that he sold this tooling to MEW.  No doubt this may be some of the tooling you purchased.  

Dick's assistant, Butch Alvarado, gave me a tour of the machine shop.  What I remember seeing were a variety of German-made stamping machines, metal lathes, drill presses, tooling/plates, etc. he used to fabricate the various parts for his tinplate trains.  In addition, the shop had parts for his trains stored seemingly everywhere along with tinplate trains in various states of completion.  

I remember that the tooling he used to stamp out the sides of his Ives cars was quite unique.  If my memory serves me, this tooling was special in that it was formed from several separate pieces that could be inserted into the metal presses in different combinations depending on what particular car Dick wanted to make.  Is this tooling part of the RichArt tooling you bought from MEW?

Exterior photo of the entrance to the RichArt Machine shop, which a year ago was burned to the ground. 

Interior of the RichArt Machine shop.

t

One of numerous shelves on which Dick stored parts such as these rough brass castings Dick used to make RichArt's reproduction 1134 steam engine.

Below the late Butch Alvarado during tour of Dick's shop.

The late Dick Meyer sitting in his workshop next to the O gauge Milwaukee Road Cascade Bipolar he custom made for me.

Bob Nelson

Any add-ons for the Black Diamond and Prosperity Special would be on my wish list.

Tim 

I would second the interest in a Prosperity Sprcial 4 door baggage. 

navy.seal posted:

Harry Henning posted:

We are moving the final load of MEW tooling  & stamping machinery to our site here in Pa. in the next couple of weeks.  Some of the old Rich Art tooling  I was going over will make the Ives / AF baggage car.  Mike has reproduced the complete set in the past, but not the baggage car. I am considering mfg. ONLY this car next year if sufficient interest. I would appreciate any comments on what you think. We are also planning on reproducing the AF wide gauge motors in the spring.  Harry 

Harry, 

When I visited Dick's RichArt machine shop in California, I saw what I think was the tooling for RichArt's Ives passenger cars.  A year or two later Dick told me that he sold this tooling to MEW.  No doubt this may be some of the tooling you purchased.  

Dick's assistant, Butch Alvarado, gave me a tour of the machine shop.  What I remember seeing were a variety of German-made stamping machines, metal lathes, drill presses, tooling/plates, etc. he used to fabricate the various parts for his tinplate trains.  In addition, the shop had parts for his trains stored seemingly everywhere along with tinplate trains in various states of completion.  

I remember that the tooling he used to stamp out the sides of his Ives cars was quite unique.  If my memory serves me, this tooling was special in that it was formed from several separate pieces that could be inserted into the metal presses in different combinations depending on what particular car Dick wanted to make.  Is this tooling part of the RichArt tooling you bought from MEW?

Exterior photo of the entrance to the RichArt Machine shop, which a year ago was burned to the ground. 

Interior of the RichArt Machine shop.

t

One of numerous shelves on which Dick stored parts such as these rough brass castings Dick used to make RichArt's reproduction 1134 steam engine.

Below the late Butch Alvarado during tour of Dick's shop.

The late Dick Meyer sitting in his workshop next to the O gauge Milwaukee Road Cascade Bipolar he custom made for me.

Bob Nelson

Bob - thanks for posting these - great history and recollection. Also, really like those RPO and Railway express cars.

Jim

Harry,

I would be in for ALL the different variations in SEVERAL of the finishes to fill out sets I have.

Ken

My 2 cents is that producing a few add-on cars would cater only to a very limited market.  People like me who don't have the original set would probably want to buy either a full set or nothing.

I like the idea of offering something other than the same old stuff with a different paint job, which seems to be the case with MTH/Lionel Corp.

Thank you all for your input and pictures. I have not personally gone over all the tooling, but  I have a basic idea of what I have. I think I have 99% of all of the Rich Art tooling, Including for the Cascade,  and the Lionel  "O" gauge 256 loco & 710 cars,  AF & Ives wide gauge motors. 

I am contemplating offering the AF / Ives car variations in maybe a kit form complete, but unpainted.  The sides are stamped as a blank, and then you have a choice of door, or window inserts that can be aligned in different locations. It is much like mounting punches in a large gang press, but on a much smaller area.  All of the cars, including the head end cars are made on the initial punched side sheet. Door & window openings are in succeeding steps, producing many versions.

 Thank you.  Harry 

Bob thank you for posting the "factory" tour .... great photos to see where all the trains came from ...a rather unimposing structure .... look forward to seeing your Richart  trains in Milwaukee .....   want to double head Cascades ? 

Cheers Carey  

Wow Harry!  If the "AF wide gauge motor" is what powered the ex-Ives steam locos like the 4693 with triangular valve gear and reversing levers in the cab, then I'm really excited!!

Harry,

Among the tooling you received from RichArt should be their tooling to reproduce RichArt's copy of American Flyer's Standard Gauge mailbag hanger, mailbags and mailbag retriever clip.  These are relatively rare and sell quickly on ebay.  Could be an excellent product to produce and sell.  Operators with layouts might want to purchase and position several trackside mailbag hangers around their layouts to simulate mailbag retrieval from numerous location on their layout.

Bob Nelson

navy.seal posted:

Harry,

Among the tooling you received from RichArt should be their tooling to reproduce RichArt's copy of American Flyer's Standard Gauge mailbag hanger, mailbags and mailbag retriever clip.  These are relatively rare and sell quickly on ebay.  Could be an excellent product to produce and sell.  Operators with layouts might want to purchase and position several trackside mailbag hangers around their layouts to simulate mailbag retrieval from numerous location on their layout.

Bob Nelson

YES!!!

Will you have any spare cabs with the brass side plate for the 256 engine?

Harry,

If you want to be truly innovative and create an entirely new car, may I suggest you create a State "fish" car like the ones that many States used to deliver fingerlings from their State hatcheries to lakes and streams around the State.  The "Badger" fish car seen below, was operated by Wisconsin and is typical of fish cars that several States operated.  As part of the National Fish Hatchery System, Wisconsin operated two fish cars: Badger No.1 and Badger No. 2. 

As you can see from the above photo, you would simply need to arrange the RichArt tooling to place cargo doors in the middle on both sides of the car and place small windows on either side of the cargo doors.  Below the windows are aerated fish tanks filled with water and fish fry.   In operation, the "fish" trains would stop along their routes in order to deliver milk cans filled with fish fry to waiting truck for further delivery to lakes and streams.

Here is a link to more photos on the fish cars that were part of the National Fish Hatchery System including interior photos showing aeration of the fish tanks.  Most interesting!

http://www.catskillarchive.com/rrextra/fishcar.Html

For years I have suggested to MTH to produce "operating" fish cars which would load/shove milk cans into the beds of waiting State fish hatchery trucks.   I'd buy several!

Bob Nelson 

How about a run of the Olympians in never before done colors? With american made open frame motors?

Sunrise

@Harry Henning posted:

Thank you all for your input and pictures. I have not personally gone over all the tooling, but  I have a basic idea of what I have. I think I have 99% of all of the Rich Art tooling, Including for the Cascade,  and the Lionel  "O" gauge 256 loco & 710 cars,  AF & Ives wide gauge motors. 

I am contemplating offering the AF / Ives car variations in maybe a kit form complete, but unpainted.  The sides are stamped as a blank, and then you have a choice of door, or window inserts that can be aligned in different locations. It is much like mounting punches in a large gang press, but on a much smaller area.  All of the cars, including the head end cars are made on the initial punched side sheet. Door & window openings are in succeeding steps, producing many versions.

 Thank you.  Harry 

 

Harry,

Did you ever produce any cars and/or "kits" as I would be interested in buying one or two to duplicate Wisconsin's BADGER No.1 and BADGER No.2 fishery cars?

Bob Nelson

Rob,

       No. Joe Mania has the tooling and the hydraulic press for making any of the cars. I do not think he is in a hurry to make as the tooling inserts etc. are very many operations to produce. I think time wise & financially it would qualify for a "Love of the hobby" to produce. My 2C 's worth.   Harry 

@Harry Henning posted:

Rob,

       No. Joe Mania has the tooling and the hydraulic press for making any of the cars. I do not think he is in a hurry to make as the tooling inserts etc. are very many operations to produce. I think time wise & financially it would qualify for a "Love of the hobby" to produce. My 2C 's worth.   Harry 

Harry,

Thanks for that info.  I'll touch base with Joe Mania to see if he has any interest in producing some state hatchery cars or kits. 

An "operating" car with center opening cargo doors thru which fish hatchery "milk" (fish) cans could be off loaded onto platforms and/or pickup truck beds, would be an exciting accessory on any Standard Gauge layout.

Bob Nelson