Hello everybody,
I was just talking to a Lionel tech support and he advised not to use JT's Mega smokefluid because it will build up a film and ruin a smoke unit. After some use he said you have to take the smoke unit apart and clean the crud off the element? Have you heard anything to this effect and what do you think of this smoke fluid and its lasting effect on the smoke unit itself. He said Lionel and MTH fluid is okay to use though.
Thank you, Jerry
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Would that hold for JT's unscented as well? I wondered if the flavors were the culprit.
I used JT's for years - it smokes better then Lionel and MTH in my view - I would be interested if there is any facts and support for the tech said.
I haven't had an issue. I have found that the JT Megasteam Eliminator smoke fluid is the best treatment for most smoke issues.
Scott Smith
That's been the Lionel line for years. As far I know, we have yet to see evidence to support the claim...
No issues here, if your smoke unit begin to smell bad use their eliminator like Scott says
Yeah, I've heard that before...
...but haven't experienced it myself.
JT's....it's what I use...no problem, Joe.
KD
I've been using Mega Steam for years...one issue with MTH engines where the paint (inside the shell) peeled. Jeb took a TON of time to explain the issue - which was with MTH's paint process. He explained the best way to correct and he was 100% correct. I followed his instructions years ago and have never had an issue since.
Jeb is one GREAT guy and will take care of you.
I believe Lionel "recommends" using their fluid just to sell an extra bottle or two....just how MTH strongly advices people to only use their battery and not a BCR....why would they recommend someone else/competitors product over their own!
Like all the people above said. I've used it for years with no issues. Works great. And if you have a problem, Jeb is a great guy.
Lionel's blowing smoke (couldn't resist it).
Gerry
SJC posted:I've been using Mega Steam for years...one issue with MTH engines where the paint (inside the shell) peeled. Jeb took a TON of time to explain the issue - which was with MTH's paint process. He explained the best way to correct and he was 100% correct. I followed his instructions years ago and have never had an issue since.
Jeb is one GREAT guy and will take care of you.
Uhh... And the explanation was?
JT's Mega-Steam is one of the best smoke fluid brands on the market. MTH's smoke fluid is excellent as well. Our Lionel Authorized Service Station and our MTH National Authorized Service Center has never seen any issues caused by using Mega-Steam.
We carry almost the complete line of JT's Mega-Steam including the Eliminator.
Does this Lionel tech support person have a name???? I use Mega Steam. No dis respect to Lionel fluid is intended. I have a few engines and have never had one issue with Mega Steam. I work on several HUNDRED engines each year. Did you get this information at York??
I have been using Megasteam for years with no problems at all.
since the san diego 3 railers has switched to mega steam we have had LESS residual smoke build up on landscape and buildings. we have been able to clean track faster because less residue and it smoke better.
Marty Fitzhenry posted:Does this Lionel tech support person have a name???? I use Mega Steam. No dis respect to Lionel fluid is intended. I have a few engines and have never had one issue with Mega Steam. I work on several HUNDRED engines each year. Did you get this information at York??
Mike Reagan @Mikado used to say this all the time when he was at Lionel. Perhaps he can chime in. I also have it in an email from Lionel CS (when Mike was still there).
While I certainly don't have a dog in this fight, if a manufacturer tells me that using another fluid could affect my warranty, which Lionel has been saying, until that warranty period is up I'll use what they recommend. Now many of the folks that repair locomotives here on the forum obviously have more experience and can repair their own including myself, many times smoke fluid doesn't always stay where it's supposed to be and finds it's way to the circuit boards so it's not just a smoke unit issue.
Personally I can't say I've seen any negative effect by using JT's but until the warranty period is up then I use Lionel in Lionel engines. Some folks say even Lionel, while using the Lionel fluid, said they used another fluid during repairs. IDK about that but this is my thought. Once the warranty period is up for my Lionel locos then I use what ever I feel like.
FWIW I use MTH (just something about reminds me of York), JT Mega Steam, and the Lionel Premium after the warranty periods.
So whether it's Lionel pushing their brand or what I won't argue or defend. I just presented the facts and my opinion on how I proceed based on what I have been told.
Marty, I have had that conversation with big Mike. My opinion of Mega Steam is based on using many bottles in the past years with excellent results. The poster indicated he had just talked to someone at Lionel to obtain what he posted. Having learned while working in Police work that the best information is first hand information. This subject has been kicked about as much as traction tires and batteries. Again, I am not putting down any other brand of smoke fluid as they all work.
Truthfully, I don't know that there is a huge difference in the basic formulation of most smoke fluid brands. I've used MegaSteam, Lionel, and MTH fluid, haven't been able to tell the difference unless I get a whiff of the scent, that usually identifies the brand. 
Marty
Yep. I know where you are coming from. I certainly value your experience because you probably changed and repaired more smoke units in a week than I've ever done. I also certainly am not disputing what you and the others are saying but just relaying the information pertaining to Lionel's warranty policy that has been told to me by Mike, while he was at Lionel, and Lionel CS. Again I have no opinion other than keeping my warranty valid. After that period is over I use what I like at the time.
Whether or not it's "first hand information", it has been a standing policy from Mike's time forward at Lionel to recommend the Premium Fluid. I'm not sure what folks expect them to recommend. I'm also not sure it really matters who told him this at Lionel. I'm sure they are all told to state the same thing. Unless Dean @Lionel Dean or anyone else from Lionel is going to change that policy then I imagine anyone you speak with at Lionel will say the same.
Every manufacturer of anything in this world today is going to tell you that you need to use their products in their equipment. One, it sells more supplies for them, and two, it is the only way they can control what people use.
Does everyone use Honda oil in their Honda vehicles? Does everyone use primer made by the same company as the paint they use? No. Mega-Steam smoke fluid is fine to use in any manufacturer's engines. I've have used it for over 10 years and have never had an issue. It's a great product.
Well stated Joe.
Wow, what replies! !!! I have about a bottle and a half of the stuff and I will keep on using it. Can someone explain with The Eliminator does please cuz I guess I'll have to get some . Thanks for all the information
Best to all, thanks Jerry
New Product: Eliminator
I have used Mega Smoke for years and never had any problems JEB makes a great product and is a HECK of a NICE GUY !! WATCH GLA #12 and view HIGHLAND PARK & ELDORADO R/R you will see how well Mega smoke works !! regards Gary Clare
You know, when I left the Big L I thought I would never have to revisit this topic! I guess not.
Okay, here is what my experience has been. JT Mega Steam fluid leaves a tacky residue inside the smoke unit (and all parts the smoke fluid touches; stack, funnel, shell, etc). Te carrier fluid that JT uses leaves a tacky hydrocarbon deposit on the batting and all throughout the smoke system. Does it smoke well? Yes. Does it smoke long? In modern Lionel equipment my experience has been that prematurely wears on the system, causing more frequent repairs to the smoke system.
For anyone wanting to perform this test themselves, it is very easy. Take an AA set (modern Legacy with a track IR LED) and put Lionel Premium Smoke Fluid in the powered A unit and JT in the non powered smoke unit (or vice versa). Then just let them run, you will see which unit degrades faster. Then, when you take them apart and compare the two units you will discover this tacky residue I referred to all the time.
When I was at Lionel we tested and built our products using Lionel Premium Smoke Fluid (which was the old unscented TAS smoke fluid). This fluid is not as heavy as the JT fluid and leaves no residue behind, sans the hydrocarbon on the batting (that dark brown/black "charring" that prevents fluid from making it to the element). If you remember all the videos I did, where I talk about a needle applicator bottle, that allows you to get the fluid down in the smoke unit (in the batting) and not all over the inside of the funnel/stack. Anywhere you have liquid fluid the smoke vapor likes to cling to, a clean stack will produce more smoke!
Anyway, that is where I am coming from. Never wanted to start a brand war, just wanted folks to be able to enjoy their trains, without having to get inside them.
Thanks,
Mike
Mikado posted:When I was at Lionel we tested and built our products using Lionel Premium Smoke Fluid (which was the old unscented TAS smoke fluid). This fluid is not as heavy as the JT fluid and leaves no residue behind, sans the hydrocarbon on the batting (that dark brown/black "charring" that prevents fluid from making it to the element).
Thanks,
Mike
What is TAS? Have a Lionel steamer we purchased used with one of their smoke units in it and it doesn't smoke at all.
TAS is Train America Studios. Mike was a major principal in that company.
If someone just happens to have a mass spec or NMR just laying around, it would be rather trivial to compare the smoke fluids...
RoyBoy posted:TAS is Train America Studios. Mike was a major principal in that company.
Thanks. Does the Lionel fluid come scented in the great various "flavors" like JT's? My search on the Lionel site didn't seem to locate anything.
They do have some scented smoke fluid, but from what I saw not as many as Megasteam, which I use in my engines, though most of mine are out of warranty know since I bought pretty much all my engines a couple of years ago.
A link to the one's I brought up when I searched for Smoke Fluid
No, use the eliminator fluid and I'd bet most of what Mike talks about goes away.
I'd be more worried about the long term impact on one's lungs.
Is there a MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) available from the manufacturer? There should be.
I have had one, only one, engine that had a gummed up smoke unit. The piston go frozen in the bore and would not actuate. (This was a Hogwarts Express LC). Upon disassembly, I found the tacky residue. Cleaned the piston and bore up with a little rubbing alcohol, adjusted the spring, and in 15 minutes was back in business. Too be clear, I DO overfill this smoke unit. I don't mean to, but it happens sometimes. The residue build up was after a 4 hour display run for some kids, then I put it on the shelf for 4 months. Next run, gummy. All I use is JT MS. I have no plans to change.
I have noticed the gumming and hanging up of my PW smoke pistons too.
At first I thought it was just age, but when newer trains started doing it too, I just blamed fluid and or slight overfill vs pellets in general.
There is a definite difference in the thickness, and evaporation rate of fluids. I tend to prefer the thinner ones for small, low volt engines. But for the ones with mods, I use thicker fluids like protosmoke so I'm not filling the things every five minutes. But put Protosmoke in a General and you'll wait for days for it to smoke well, it's too thick.
What I find odd, is before I continued the hobby beyond Christmas, even my oldest PW fluid type locos used to produce smoke after being in storage all year.
Nowdays that isn't the case. I miss pellets for that reason too. They always smoked like they day the got put away; long rests were no issue.
When scented smoke fluid is made does anyone know what ingredients is in it. I'll give you a hint there's three ingredients in it.
I'm sure it is just a coincidence but in my m1a I have been using Jt's for over a year. No issue. Then I decided to try Lionel's new scented fluid, a week later I get the smoke unit issue cab blinking lights and main stack is dead. Perhaps my engine was telling me it likes Jt's better haha.
rustyrail o scale posted:When scented smoke fluid is made does anyone know what ingredients is in it. I'll give you a hint there's three ingredients in it.
I'll take a stab at it. Either Propylene Glycol or Vegetable Glycerine which is used as a base or carrier for the scent oils, Scent oils (complex mixture of essential oils) and Water for vapor AKA steam.
wild mary posted:I'd be more worried about the long term impact on one's lungs.
right here;
Thanks MIKE REAGAN for clearing this up. Prior to your post, i was thinking this was fake news and that RUSSIA was involved.
Doug
bigdodgetrain posted:wild mary posted:I'd be more worried about the long term impact on one's lungs.
right here;
That's just an extract that JT's posted on their own web site. They only list C14 - C-16 paraffins (AKA Kerosene, AKA Lamp Oil). I'd love to see the unabridged MSDS.
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