After considerable reading and research, I have decided there is no simple answer as to whether our trains are our "toys" or rather sophisticated "models". I have been recently reading about the Swiss firm of Fulgurex, founded by the late Italian Count Antonio Giansanti Coluzzi. Fulgurex, under the passionate leadership of Coluzzi, contracted with some of the world's most precision model makers such as Tenshodo, Samhongsa and Aster, to name just a few, to produce arguably the finest model trains on the planet. The materials were first rate often including brass (nickel plated), steel and chrome components. Most of these models, whether live steam or electric, usually were purchased for display in cases rather than for running, though even with their elaborate and delicate detailing could do so. Most of the world's "toy" trains such as Lionel, American Flyer, Marklin, Bing, LGB and many others were offered as both toys and models to play with and/or operate. My conclusion is the answer to my thread title question is more complex than ever given the technical advances in model and toy train production in our time. Personally, I consider my standard gauge and LGB trains as toys to be played with and entertained by, and that is fine for me. Those exquisite Fulgurex models and others of their ilk have deservedly high price points for their virtually hand made precision products, and are quite simply beyond my ability to possess.
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Actually, it is a very simple answer, what is your concern?
Charlie
There's no reason why we can't make the distinction between a toy and a model in almost every case. Perhaps some items could be considered to be both but, in my opinion, detailed scale-sized O gauge/scale models (especially brass) are incorrectly labelled as toys.
MELGAR
To me a model is just a high end toy. I'm sure many will disagree but to me if it isn't really serving a purpose, like an appliance, it is a toy of some sort.
As Charlie intimated, why does it matter?
If it's a model then are we justified playing with toys?
The difference between the men and the boys...
Rusty
They're "Toys" when we own them, They're "Sophisticated Models" when they're for sale
I don't think the distinction matters at all. It can be whichever fits your personal needs. But that does not mean there is no distinction. If an O gauge model (brass, die-cast or plastic) is too expensive, too fragile, or too rare to risk damage by giving it to a child for play, then it is not a toy. Some pre- and postwar Lionel products come under the category of antiques. Are they still toys? People raise this subject frequently on the Forum. There are other topics that make for more interesting discussion...
MELGAR
Ultimately I think discussing this is just a big circle. Debate all you want but you always end up at the same place.
Just expensive toys that bring us enjoyment and at times frustrations.
The toy's status can change...the Hafner set under the tree in 1938 is a collectible at York. Yet, it will never be a model. A 3rd Rail articulated will not be found under the tree for a 9 year old, so is no toy. I do not consider objects designed as toys for children, and can be used as such, models. If designed for adults, models. When adults collect toys, the color is GRAY, so our world is very gray.
Love the clause "our world is very gray" and I would add many different shades of that. I enjoy my "toys" and cannot afford high-end "models", and I probably would be fearful to operate a 10-15K Fulgurex for the same reason I would never own a Rolex or any expensive Swiss watch!
I have a Marx 666 train and the light bulb has burned out. I am looking for a replacement. Any suggestions as to what would be a good replacement and where to get it.
Depends on the context. Some model train manufacturers and hobby shops advise model trains aren't toys because (1) they want to make clear that they are not made for rough handling and (2) they don't want small children getting hurt/injured by sharp edges, electrical hazards, or breaking off and potentially ingesting small detail parts.
oh here we go again........ I believe it is all about the fear of being labeled as an adult playing with a toy.
It depends on your standards. If you accept a 225 Lionel steam engine as a model, it is a model. St. Charles Works makes models as do a limited number of O scale manufacturers. John
Don't see this as an existential question I need to grapple with when so many other pressing issues exist in life . My trains aren't appliances, a sport or works of art or anything other than a source of aesthetic pleasure and play, so I guess they are adult toys to me.
It is essentially a relativistic issue. Just reading about those 10K+ Fulgurex engines made me reconsider which were toys and which were models. The choice is ultimately in the eyes of the owner.
When a maker such as Fulgurex produces a very limited run of literally hand built high quality models, some actually documented as low as 25, and they are all presold before they are completed at a five-figure price, we may conclude these are VERY expensive adult toys or museum quality models. Your choice.
If you put it on the shelf and just display it, it's a model. If you take it down and run it then it becomes a toy
Very interesting comments everyone. Being a collector of tinplate and postwar, a two rail operator, and an occasional high end brass buyer, they are all toys to me. However, more importantly, each one is a memory of a person, time or place. My most valuable piece is the one owned by my Dad or the one my Mom helped me to buy. Someday I hope to create a room of trains all in floor to ceiling dispaly cases and as I spin around on my office chair, I will see nothing but a kaleidoscope of trains. Miketg
(This time 🙃)
I'll contend firstly that they are all models.
A representation of an object or situation; real, or fictional.
A model may make a good toy, or a bad one.
A bad toy lacks pleasurable interaction.
In the end, trains are good toys.
🚂🚃🚃🚃💨
If it belongs to you, you can label it what you want to. I see all of my trains as toys, some have never been on the rails unless for testing at the manufacturer, others have many miles on them. They all entertain me, whether it be in repair or in running,or just looking pretty on the shelf.
Ray
@Hawk-i posted:I have a Marx 666 train and the light bulb has burned out. I am looking for a replacement. Any suggestions as to what would be a good replacement and where to get it.
Here ya go:
Have fun!
Mitch
It's 2005 here all over again.
- Crank
We all need recreation, and anything that we don't use for survival is really a toy - golf clubs, hobby cars, firearms that aren't for protection or to put food on the table, etc. I'm not ashamed to be "playing with toys".
Unless a model is being used for scientific, business, or educational purposes, it's really a toy.
@M. Mitchell Marmel posted:Here ya go:
Have fun!
Mitch
Have you looked into LED bulbs? No heat, less current, and longer lasting.
It’s a toy until I paid for it, then I realized after why did I pay so much for a toy that breaks down so often.
MANY THANKS to all for your responses! My trains are, and have always been, my toys regardless of their cost. Never owned a five-figure locomotive and never will, but more power to those that can! :-)
I think one important group considers both one and the same: The Department of the Treasury, especially its taxing services......
@Tinplate Art posted:MANY THANKS to all for your responses! My trains are, and have always been, my toys regardless of their cost. Never owned a five-figure locomotive and never will, but more power to those that can! :-)
You don't want to haggle more?
I haven't broken 4 figures yet... counting the change
I'dve run the Baja 500 in a Model T if I could've afforded it (I just don't think an old Rolls, Lincoln, Buick, Caddie, Cord, etc, would make it as far )
You know a "Gomez Addams Moment" likely befalls at least some Fulgrex in the name of decadent fun 🙃 If opportunity knocks, I promise to try to limit myself to a lofty roll over into some soft trees or live shrubbery on my castle layout...
.....Ni! 🌳 ..G'night, G'knights
Why can't it be both? There is no reason I can possibly see what it has to be one or the other.
I have hundreds of models: of ships, cars, trucks and buses, locomotive and rolling stock, and buildings on my train layout. Most are intricate and accurate. But regardless, all are toys.
@Lee Willis posted:Why can't it be both? There is no reason I can possibly see what it has to be one or the other.
I have hundreds of models: of ships, cars, trucks and buses, locomotive and rolling stock, and buildings on my train layout. Most are intricate and accurate. But regardless, all are toys.
Amen brother
- 1.an object for a child to play with, typically a model or miniature replica of something."
But if you are a kid at heart then I suppose they are all toys.
"The great man is he who does not lose his child's heart." - Mencius (372-289 BC)
I wouldn't tell anyone who I didn't know well that any of their stuff, not just trains, is toys. Child's plaything, trinket, bauble, paltry and trifling are some examples from Websters that could be interpreted in a negative way. I've visited many layouts during open houses and tours and I've found that simply calling them models or trains covers things pretty well without any unnecessary interpretation or misinterpretation.
@christopher N&W posted:I wouldn't tell anyone who I didn't know well that any of their stuff, not just trains, is toys. Child's plaything, trinket, bauble, paltry and trifling are some examples from Websters that could be interpreted in a negative way. I've visited many layouts during open houses and tours and I've found that simply calling them models or trains covers things pretty well without any unnecessary interpretation or misinterpretation.
When visiting with someone, most of us engage in politely allowing or ignoring that person's delusions. Those who don't do so are rarely invited back. But this philosophical discussion is not speaking directly to any one individual, and this IS the internet, after all.
@Mallard4468 posted:We all need recreation, and anything that we don't use for survival is really a toy ...., firearms that aren't for protection or to put food on the table, etc.
You made up your own definition out of the blue, but you really lost all credibility with this ridiculous statement about firearms. Really, how about a loaded gun that is pointed at you.
My wife sees our money in her own way:
”Any discretionary money used by a man must be for a toy.”
I have two “toy” show cars. And I just bought a daily driver toy: 2020 Dodge Charger Scat Pack Widebody. I love my toys.
I’ve gotten picky with my toy trains and don’t currently see any toys that I “need”.
A man needs his toys.