K-Line & Lionel Pennsy Trainmasters

What item numbers do you have? Does one have better/more features then the other?

I don't keep up with Trainmasters much, but the K-Line version was new, accurate tooling, and it became Lionel's. Wasn't one produced under the short-lived "K-line by Lionel" line? I seem to remember it because it was offered in Southern, which had T'masters, but the Premier MTH SOU T'master (not the MTH PW-Williams-like clone) modeled the SOU's unique detailing, so I went that way (a dummy).

If we are talking about a re-pop of the old Lionel PW tooling, sell that one, by all means. Good for the times, but the times are now.

Conventional or TMCC? I know a potential buyer.

As others have said Dan, which specific models?  If you have a Lionel Legacy and the K-Line, I'd probably sell the K-Line.  OTOH, if you have the TMCC Lionel, I'd probably consider selling that one.  I have the K-Line TMCC, it's a nice runner, cruise, smoke, and decent sound.  I also have a couple of the Legacy models.

If Lionel used pullmor motors I’d sell that one. Nothing wrong with pullmor, I just like the ability to update to cruise. 

Neither model is really correct for the PRR. I had the K-Line version

but went with the now hard to find MTH Premier version of the TM as its nearly correct with the headlight configuration at both ends. The K-Line scale wise is a good substitute with the correct fuel tank but it's missing the small air reservior by the fuel tank as well as having incorrect headlight configuration on the short hood. [The PRR had only two headlights with the short end light placement lower than the long end to accommodate the Trainphone Antenna Coil]

The only Lionel version for the PRR TM's I can remember seeing are the postwar style decorated for the PRR .

The Post War style is a far cry from a K-Line TM in terms of looks,sound, and performance. The K-Line has 6 wheel drive and will out pull any Lionel 4 wheel drive TM any day!

I'm confused, the headlight configuration is one on the rear and two on the front, right?  The second front light is the MARS light.

I neglected to specify which models I have.

They are Lionel #6-18307 and K-Line #K-2480-8707HS

Dan Padova posted:

I neglected to specify which models I have.

They are Lionel #6-18307 and K-Line #K-2480-8707HS

Your Lionel Train Master is conventional with pullmor motors.  Your K-Line has can motors and apparently is the conventional version rather than the TMCC version.  I have the K-Line version with TMCC and like Horseshoecurve said it pulls great.   I had that Lionel version and sold it before I  ever ran it.  I also have the Lionel 2004 TCA PRR version with TMCC which is a good runner.

Bill

A picture is worth a thousand words.

I assume both Pennsy Trainmasters are relatively modern. I never saw a Lionel Postwar Trainmaster in Pennsy livery.

Oh, I see PRRHorseshoeCurve has given us pictures. Thanks 

Dan Padova posted:

I neglected to specify which models I have.

They are Lionel #6-18307 and K-Line #K-2480-8707HS

• WARNING! Don't SELL OFF the Conventional version!!!
• They are harder to find than the TMCC version.
• Good news is the TMCC version has a different number than the Conventional Version [#8701]. 
• I once had both models as I was going to buy another TMCC version and do a shell swap! But along came MTH and Upped the Anti!

So unless you are going to upgrade to the MTH PRR version, Stay with the K-line. Both K-line versions have 6 Wheel drive and are far superior to the Lionel Versions.

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

A picture is worth a thousand words.

I assume both Pennsy Trainmasters are relatively modern. I never saw a Lionel Postwar Trainmaster in Pennsy livery.

 

Just a reminder I stated Postwar Style. You are correct that Lionel Corp. did not Do a Pennsy livery Trainmaster.

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

Dan Padova posted:

I neglected to specify which models I have.

They are Lionel #6-18307 and K-Line #K-2480-8707HS

• WARNING! Don't SELL OFF the Conventional version!!!
• They are harder to find than the TMCC version.
• Good news is the TMCC version has a different number than the Conventional Version [#8701]. 
• I once had both models as I was going to buy another TMCC version and do a shell swap! But along came MTH and Upped the Anti!

So unless you are going to upgrade to the MTH PRR version, Stay with the K-line. Both K-line versions have 6 Wheel drive and are far superior to the Lionel Versions.

That's the model I have.  I have decided to sell the Lionel TM.  

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

The only Lionel version for the PRR TM's I can remember seeing are the postwar style decorated for the PRR .

 

Something really familiar about these pictures.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I'm confused, the headlight configuration is one on the rear and two on the front, right?  The second front light is the MARS light.

So my K-Line version has the two headlights on the short hood end and a single headlight on the long hood end.  Inside the cab are engineer and firemen figures, both facing the long hood end.  I know some railroads operated long hood forward.  Why then is there a double headlight on the short hood end, which would be the rear of the locomotive ?

If as GRJ stated the second headlight on the short hood is a MARS light I would think the PRR ran short hood forward so the Engineers should be turned.

I have three Train Masters, the K-Line TMCC, the Reading and Wabash Legacy models.  All have the dual lights on the short hood, and all the engineers are facing that way from the factory.  Yes, from a power off situation, they all start out short hood forward as well.

Interesting John.  My K-Line Trainmaster starts out long hood first.  And as I mentioned, the fireman and engineer are facing toward the long hood.

Actually, I mis-spoke.  Both of the Legacy ones run short hood forward, but I don't have the K-Line out on my shelves (no room yet). 

The K-Line actually does run long hood forward, I see those guys looking down the long side.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I'm confused, the headlight configuration is one on the rear and two on the front, right?  The second front light is the MARS light.

Pennsy custom was to run long hood forward.  Also prototypically I believe that is a "port-hole" window in the door of the rear.

Back in the time it was the K-Line version for me.

BUT!  When MTH retooled for their Premier line Train Master there was no question, hands down.

Liked the PRR one so much also bought the Souther.

And if you did not caught it in the broadside views.

The pilot deck height is prototypically correct for the two roads!

Ron

PRRronbh posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I'm confused, the headlight configuration is one on the rear and two on the front, right?  The second front light is the MARS light.

Pennsy custom was to run long hood forward.  Also prototypically I believe that is a "port-hole" window in the door of the rear.

WHAAAA?  What Porthole window? There are no Porthole windows in a PRR TM.

Dan Padova posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I'm confused, the headlight configuration is one on the rear and two on the front, right?  The second front light is the MARS light.

So my K-Line version has the two headlights on the short hood end and a single headlight on the long hood end.  Inside the cab are engineer and firemen figures, both facing the long hood end.  I know some railroads operated long hood forward.  Why then is there a double headlight on the short hood end, which would be the rear of the locomotive ?

The K-line 2 Lights on the short hood are only prototypical for the FM Demonstrator versions [that K-line never painted]. K-line used the same mold like a  "Cookie Cutter" for the rest of their Trainmaster fleet. The PRR only has ONE headlight at each end... abet on the short hood the headlight is lower to accommodate the Trainphone Antenna coil.

The MTH Model on the left is correct per prototype- including the amount of air vents on the top of the long hood too!

Long hood first/short hood first.  As I recall, there is a way to program in TMCC which direction the loco starts in.  Can do this with the CCII Sharks, so should be able to it with ANY TMCC loco.

Fred

 

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

PRRronbh posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I'm confused, the headlight configuration is one on the rear and two on the front, right?  The second front light is the MARS light.

Pennsy custom was to run long hood forward.  Also prototypically I believe that is a "port-hole" window in the door of the rear.

WHAAAA?  What Porthole window? There are no Porthole windows in a PRR TM.

Went back through pubs on the PR TM.  Sure enough No port hole window, they were rectangular. 

Wondering if I saw this with a different road?.

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

The MTH Model on the left is correct per prototype- including the amount of air vents on the top of the long hood too!

Not having the MTH model to look at, exactly what is different between the MTH and Lionel Legacy versions as far as the air vents on top?

One thing I like about the K-Line version, other than it's finer detailing, is having the outer wheels, i.e. the first and third drive wheels flanged.  As opposed to Lionel and I think Williams where the blind driver is the third wheel.  I can understand why Lionel designed their trucks the way they did.  They had to accommodate tighter radius curves and clear switch machines.  I can run my K-Line TM on my layout with the exception of one spot where I have the AF sawmill too close to a curve, otherwise it runs smoothly without issue as far as clearances go.  

gunrunnerjohn posted:

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

The MTH Model on the left is correct per prototype- including the amount of air vents on the top of the long hood too!

Not having the MTH model to look at, exactly what is different between the MTH and Lionel Legacy versions as far as the air vents on top?

Well MTH detailed their H-24-66 Trainmaster Diesel Locomotive to near prototypes of each model painted. For the PRR Version, you can see both the 1:1 and the MTH premier Version have the same grouping of Air vents on top of the long hood.. three by the Dynamic Brake intake and a Pair by the cooling fans. 

the Lionel Legacy models [BTW have NOT done a PRR version YET] So far "cookie Cutter" follows the FM Demonstrator versions in ALL upper panels above the Engine Access doors have the cooling vents as well as the incorrect lights on the short hood- marks light and headlight combo.

Actually, that picture is pretty dark and I can't see the details all that well.  I do wonder why Lionel never did a PRR version, it's one of the most popular roads.