K-Line version of Marx 333?

Looking at possibly buying a little used K-Line Pennsylvania Iron Horse set that includes a Marx based 4-6-2 locomotive. Are the K-Line versions of the 333 conventionally operated? What kind of motor (DC can or AC open frame?) do they have?

 

Thanks,

Andy

Andy

 

When they were passing out brains, I thought they said trains and I asked for a slow one.

Original Post

Andy, being based on the MARX tooling, this engine looks real nice on 027 curves with smaller rolling stock. As John said, it is a very smooth runner and with good pulling capacity too.

It is powered with a larger DC can motor with a worm gear drive, so you cannot push this locomotive the way you can a Lionel starter type steam engine.

Some other footnotes... The plastic piece on the eccentric crank is very prone to breaking, especially during shipping if not packed well.

The Seuthe smoke unit on these is worthless and more than likely, doesn't work on any used engine you might buy.

Also note, the whistle on these 3000-series K-Line steamers cannot be activated with a whistle lever on a Lionel transformer. You will need the K-Line Whistle Activation Box, or you'll run this engine with a Lionel whistle tender.

brianel027

 

brianel_k-lineguy posted:

Andy, being based on the MARX tooling, this engine looks real nice on 027 curves with smaller rolling stock. As John said, it is a very smooth runner and with good pulling capacity too.

It is powered with a larger DC can motor with a worm gear drive, so you cannot push this locomotive the way you can a Lionel starter type steam engine.

Some other footnotes... The plastic piece on the eccentric crank is very prone to breaking, especially during shipping if not packed well.

The Seuthe smoke unit on these is worthless and more than likely, doesn't work on any used engine you might buy.

Also note, the whistle on these 3000-series K-Line steamers cannot be activated with a whistle lever on a Lionel transformer. You will need the K-Line Whistle Activation Box, or you'll run this engine with a Lionel whistle tender.

Thanks for the info Brianel

Andy

 

When they were passing out brains, I thought they said trains and I asked for a slow one.

What @brianel_k-lineguy said, except one important caveat...  This loco has NO flywheel, and NO way to add one 

That means No DCS uprgrades and no coasting.  If you have operators who are fond of hitting the "Dir" button, the loco will come to a bone-jarring halt, and the metal worm could actually cut a bur into the nylon drive gear.  Mine developed a hitch after one such hard stop, that I was never able to cure.

I also had to run a tether back to the tender, because the pickup roller spacing was such that it would stop on some of our switches if running slowly.

In retrospect, I wonder whether adding a couple of large NON-POLAR capacitors in line with the power feed (probably in the tender) would have conferred a little bit of momentum to avoid the worst outcomes.

It's really a shame this loco didn't get a flywheel, because it's geared low, and as others have said runs pretty smoothly when underway.

Creep, coast, and pull.  We're not talking about cold fusion here.

Well, I bought it. Doesn't look like the engine has been run much. The lady I got it from said they never used the engine, they just bought the set to use the cars with another set they had

No instructions on the set. It has a whistle tender and the button thingy. No idea how to hook it up. The engine has a switch on the bottom. Reverse lockout or smoker on/off? Probably won't be able to try it out tonight.

Andy

 

When they were passing out brains, I thought they said trains and I asked for a slow one.

Looks like it's been in the Styrofoam a long time. Bits seem to be embedded in the metal shell, especially the domes. something like cardboard seems to be stuck on the cab roof. Can that all be safely cleaned off (not mess with the paint) or am I looking at a repaint?

IMG_20190212_212603~2IMG_20190212_212627~2

Andy

 

When they were passing out brains, I thought they said trains and I asked for a slow one.

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Finally got to run the loco on my layout. Using my Lionel 1033 the engine runs really slow. It was mentioned that it ran slow, so hopefully that is it. Haven't taken it apart to lube it yet.

So far there's no smoke even with the Mega-Steam fluid I have. Someone mentioned the smoker might not work, so not upset.

Biggest thing is the random clicking it makes going around the layout. Any ideas? I'm thinking something in the valve gear is catching. Not sure though.

IMG_20190214_172054

Andy

 

When they were passing out brains, I thought they said trains and I asked for a slow one.

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If you soak the cardboard spots with WD-40, the cardboard will soften and come off.

Looking at the smoke stack, with no ring/lip around the top, shows that this loco is from the earlier batch fitted with a Seuthe smoke generator. As poor of a smoker as that is, it's still better than the later locos with the home brew smoke generator and the ring/lip on the smoke stack.

You can put a few drops in and run the power up to 16 volts in neutral. If it's going to smoke, that will do it.

Make sure the eccentric crank screws are tight. The cranks are plastic and will snap off if the screw gets loose or the cranks get into the wrong position.

RoyBoy

Andy, these aren't fast runners.  Even on the A-U posts it probably won't break 70 scale mph, and that's a good thing!!

As far as the clicking: remember these have no flywheel and a tight worm gear drive.  If the loco experiences any kind of momentary voltage drop or dead spot, it will slow down RIGHT AWAY, and can't be "pushed" by the train.  So you may be hearing the metal drawbar on the tender slam into the back of the locomotive, or slack bunching in the train.  To test this theory, run just the loco by itself and see if you still hear the clicking.

It could also be the pickup rollers snagging in switches or rail gaps.  IIRC, the roller diameter on these was pretty small.  With a can motor, rubber tires, and worm gear drive, the loco is a quiet runner so all you hear is the "clickety clack."

These were a unique offering, especially when they first came out, and have so much potential.  It's a real shame that K-Line and in later years, Lionel couldn't figure out how to install a flywheel!

Creep, coast, and pull.  We're not talking about cold fusion here.

Roy Boy and Ted,

 

Thanks for the info. Gonna try to lube it this weekend. This thing seems so slooooowwww, but this is the newest manufactured loco I have. The next newest is a Lionel 2-4-2 from the MPC era. That one is slower than most of my Marx engines, but this K-Line is just super slow at full throttle (16v on my old 1033). Doesn't look like a scale 70 to me, but then I'm used to watching old Marx engines that do a scale Warp 5 or something. Never expected this kind of slow motion running in a train set grade engine. I may try hooking up the K-Line transformer and whistle button to the layout this weekend and see if the K-Line power plant makes it run any better. The headlight even seems dimmer on this K-Line than on the other locos at 16 volts. Holding down the whistle lever on the 1033 does make the ol' 3002 speed up nicely, but the light is still not super bright.

Andy

 

When they were passing out brains, I thought they said trains and I asked for a slow one.

Andy the service rating of the motor is about 8800 RPM at -maybe- 14V.  This works out to about two feet per second actual speed.  You can time it... if one "lap" of your mainline is, say, 20 feet, then 10 laps should take around 100 seconds at full speed.  If it's much slower than that, you could try removing the die-cast boiler shell, and putting one DROP of Labelle 107 on each end of the motor shaft, where it protrudes from each end of the "can."

There might be a tiny voltage decrease through the circuit boards, but personally I wouldn't exceed 16 volts on the track.  A 1033 should be plenty for this loco.  If you're not happy with how it runs, then I suggest you resell it.  Because you cleaned it up cosmetically,  you might get more than you paid.  There are PLENTY of RailKings and traditional-sized Lionel steam that would fall somewhere between this and your MPC in terms of speed.

Creep, coast, and pull.  We're not talking about cold fusion here.

Ted S posted:

Andy the service rating of the motor is about 8800 RPM at -maybe- 14V.  This works out to about two feet per second actual speed.  You can time it... if one "lap" of your mainline is, say, 20 feet, then 10 laps should take around 100 seconds at full speed.  If it's much slower than that, you could try removing the die-cast boiler shell, and putting one DROP of Labelle 107 on each end of the motor shaft, where it protrudes from each end of the "can."

There might be a tiny voltage decrease through the circuit boards, but personally I wouldn't exceed 16 volts on the track.  A 1033 should be plenty for this loco.  If you're not happy with how it runs, then I suggest you resell it.  Because you cleaned it up cosmetically,  you might get more than you paid.  There are PLENTY of RailKings and traditional-sized Lionel steam that would fall somewhere between this and your MPC in terms of speed.

Thanks Ted,

The speed (or lack thereof) isn't so much of a problem, Just a concern as I wasn't expecting a loco in a train set to be geared so low. As it gets warmed up it picks up a little speed, so I think maybe a good cleaning and lube job are in order. I guess I just want to be sure it's OK.

Honestly the main reason I bought it was the whole set was only $30 and I liked the fact that the loco was at least partly made with old Marx tooling. I'll keep it. It looks good. Maybe make it a hot rod with Marx single reduction motor someday!   LOL

Andy

 

When they were passing out brains, I thought they said trains and I asked for a slow one.

I guess she just needed some time to come back to life. Used a little LaBelle 106 on the gears and cleaned the wheels and collector rollers. No speed demon, but fast enough.

Now to figure out that whistle tender...

Andy

 

When they were passing out brains, I thought they said trains and I asked for a slow one.

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VID_20190215_205508
Steamer posted:

looks good Andy...you're just expecting that warp speed the original Marx engines have.

I do believe that was part of the problem. That and who knows how long it had been since the loco last ran. It's all good now. I usually run my Marx at about the same speed, but there's always some throttle left in reserve. The speed of the K loco in the video was wide open throttle!  lol

Andy

 

When they were passing out brains, I thought they said trains and I asked for a slow one.

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Ted S


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