@mwb posted:Hmmmmm..............wonder how they compare with Athearn trucks with IM wheelsets?
Be more curious how they well they install in other rolling stock....
Would say it would be hard to be that combo in terms of free rolling based on my experience with that setup. 
@Boilermaker1 posted:Unclear if these are supposed to be primed for grime or something, but is that seriously the surface finish on a forty dollar pair of trucks? They look like they might have been left in a lake...,
Certainly, understand the concern, but not as big of a deal breaker for me. Often my trucks get painted or weathered. From what I can tell this is exactly the same material used by Kadee in their other scale trucks, personal experience with HO (1/87) and "G" (1/29).
So the more interesting point is that these O Scale trucks are approx. the same price as the 1/29 counterparts. Call me crazy but I would say the 1/29 trucks have quite a bit more material.
@Boilermaker1 posted:Unclear if these are supposed to be primed for grime or something, but is that seriously the surface finish on a forty dollar pair of trucks? They look like they might have been left in a lake...,
I think real train trucks get "dirty"...
Mark in Oregon
The several pairs I have received are flat black and look better than in the pictures above. Look great under my older Atlas and roll quite well as far as I can tell. I think the Kadee trucks are far more realistic looking than most other trucks IMHO and have vastly better detail than the Athearn trucks which were tooled in the 1950's. The Athearn trucks still look fine from a little distance but their cost plus the Intermountain metal wheel-sets aren't all that much cheaper.
Mike DeBerg, you seem to have some rather badly finished trucks there!!??
Mine have arrived across The Pond, and the finish is very good, much better than Mike's examples!!
I have taken the blacking off the wheel treads with a Peco track rubber. Back-to-backs needed no adjustments for my hand-laid track; Atlas axles almost always need a bit of easing out. Fitting to a pair of Atlas Trainman 50ft boxcars has lowered said cars to the right height, probably less than 1/16th inch, but enough. They roll ok, as others have said, not as good as Atlas, but I don't want cars that roll away if you breath on them anyway.
In this photo the CSX car is on the Kadee trucks, the SOO box still on Atlas - both are Atlas Trainman cars, note the couplers out of line.
After swapping trucks on the SOO car, now both on Kadee trucks the couplers are back in line.
This photo below is of the SOO car coupled to an Atlas 53ft Evans car, both on Atlas trucks - note again the Trainman car was too tall.
The observant will notice that I removed the coupler trip pins on the SOO box when I swapped the trucks; I don't use magnetic uncoupling. 'Proper' air hoses will be added later, along with coupler cut bars.
@SundayShunter posted:In this photo the CSX car is on the Kadee trucks, the SOO box still on Atlas - both are Atlas Trainman cars, note the couplers out of line.
After swapping trucks on the SOO car, now both on Kadee trucks the couplers are back in line.
This photo below is of the SOO car coupled to an Atlas 53ft Evans car, both on Atlas trucks - note again the Trainman car was too tall.
So which one is actually correct using the height gauge?
@mwb posted:So which one is actually correct using the height gauge?
I don't have a height gauge, but go by what the vast majority of my stock sits at. As I don't use magnetic uncoupling, all that I need is consistency across my stock.
@SundayShunter posted:I don't have a height gauge, but go by what the vast majority of my stock sits at. As I don't use magnetic uncoupling, all that I need is consistency across my stock.
Well, that will work for you, and I can appreciate that, too. But that also does not tell us if these trucks directly result in getting a car to the standard height w/o "adjustments" somewhere.
@mwb posted:Well, that will work for you, and I can appreciate that, too. But that also does not tell us if these trucks directly result in getting a car to the standard height w/o "adjustments" somewhere.
Yes I take your point, I can't confirm the 'standard' height via the gauge, but I'd have thought most locos and rolling stock are made with couplers pretty close to the standard height, so when the majority - from a variety of makes - match each other, and just a few are too high (they hardly ever seem to be too low!!) then I'll go with the majority height.
For what it's worth, and something you'll appreciate too as you focus a lot on costs (at least in this thread), to get an O Scale Kadee height gauge here in the UK makes a very expensive item into an exhorbitantly over-priced luxury.
If you thought 2-rail O Scale is a small niche in the USA, in the UK, USA outline 2-rail O Scale is an even smaller niche, although UK outline 2-rail O Scale is currently booming.
@SundayShunter posted:Mike DeBerg, you seem to have some rather badly finished trucks there!!??
FWIW, The truck surface doesn't look that bad, As noted, it's the same material used on their other scale trucks. Perhaps some metal flake dust was captured in the photo. Removed some material from the bottom of the evans boxcar to get the coupler sitting just perfectly against the height gauge.
My converted to Kadee old Atlas cars are exactly at the right height on my Old Pullman NMRA coupler height gauge.
Just received my 3rd order of new Kadee trucks. Absolutely perfectly even realistic semi-flat black finish! No flecks or anything to mar the look.
Don't understand the prior comment and pictures based on the trucks I have received. Maybe they were an early version before they got the processing down.
There are NMRA published standards for the height of the bolster on the truck from the railhead. The Kadee gauge and the NMRA gauge both adhere to the standard. Most mfg and importers of 2 rail O scale in the USA adhere to the standards. Most are small manufacturers that do not offer everything for a model RR. some make trucks, some make couplers, some make kits for cars and some make or import locos and cars with and without couplers. Using the standards makes all the variety of products compatible.
Unfortunately for us in 2 rail, some of the bigger mfg use a different business model. they want to provide everything you need, track, control system, locos, cars, couplers etc. from their single source. So they often engineer their stuff so it is slightly incompatible with their competitors. This tends to make many customers stick with one brand. This is not a bad thing, just a different business model that is most prevalent in the 3 rail O scale enviroment.
I bought several pair of 50s Bettendorf at the National Convention in June. I've used them on models from Atlas, and MTH. They run perfectly and look much better imho. On my brass cars, PSC, US Hobbies so far I attempted to use with scale bolsters the unique nature of the Kadee truck design, they are self equalizing and "loose" and have a hollow delrin pin acts as a sleeve around the mounting screw that I cannot get the trucks to sit tight on the car, and depending on the car the truck bottoms out and the wheels rub the car floor. I cannot get them to work on any scale brass cars, so I used them on the cars that I could get around this issue with which are as stated on the package, mostly a 3 rail like alternative. Back to Protocraft or RY trucks on the scale brass cars.
@Erik C Lindgren posted:I bought several pair of 50s Bettendorf at the National Convention in June. I've used them on models from Atlas, and MTH. They run perfectly and look much better imho. On my brass cars, PSC, US Hobbies so far I attempted to use with scale bolsters the unique nature of the Kadee truck design, they are self equalizing and "loose" and have a hollow delrin pin acts as a sleeve around the mounting screw that I cannot get the trucks to sit tight on the car, and depending on the car the truck bottoms out and the wheels rub the car floor. I cannot get them to work on any scale brass cars, so I used them on the cars that I could get around this issue with which are as stated on the package, mostly a 3 rail like alternative. Back to Protocraft or RY trucks on the scale brass cars.
Thank-you.
@SundayShunter posted:I don't have a height gauge, but go by what the vast majority of my stock sits at. As I don't use magnetic uncoupling, all that I need is consistency across my stock.
There is a resin coupler height gauge out on the market, sold by an online small decal manufacturer clearing house, designed by someone on this list. It works great, and is considerably less expensive than the Kadee version.
Thank you Eric for pointing out the issue with mounting to a brass car. I have one of each coming (70 ton and 100 ton), and was planning on mounting the 70 ton truck on an Overland auto rack. I did look at the drawings from Kadee, and see the issue with attempting this. Frankly I think these were designed by Kadee as a fit for Atlas, Weaver and MTH cars, and not as a universal replacement for brass cars as well. Something I am not too pleased about! I think Kadee was short sighted in the design of these trucks, as the HO versions are more universal, and fully sprung! Just my opinion!
@R Nelson posted:I did look at the drawings from Kadee, and see the issue with attempting this. Frankly I think these were designed by Kadee as a fit for Atlas, Weaver and MTH cars, and not as a universal replacement for brass cars as well. Something I am not too pleased about! I think Kadee was short sighted in the design of these trucks, as the HO versions are more universal, and fully sprung! Just my opinion!
Well...you can't please everyone, I suppose...
Mark in Oregon
I suggest you should raise this issue (brass cars) directly with Kadee. They are very responsive as an American manufacturer and likely could produce a tight fitting plug for their bolster that would make the truck more universal.
@R Nelson posted:I think Kadee was short sighted in the design of these trucks, as the HO versions are more universal, and fully sprung! Just my opinion!
Personally I think equalised trucks are as good as sprung, if not better, since the springs are often far too strong, and it is very difficult - if not impossible - to scale down the physics of mass & suspension. Ever tried to get a string of model boxcars to sway along on rough secondary track?
I have....
A YouTube video from a few years ago, scenic work is still 'in progress'...
In my 2 rail experience, equalized trucks operate better than sprung trucks. Often the springs in sprung trucks are not soft enough to be effective.
I do agree with the responses regarding equalized trucks over fully sprung trucks. My comments about the Kadee trucks were simply the fact that the HO, and G versions are sprung, while the O versions are equalized. I would have thought that all scales, would have been designed the same way?? I wanted a pair of the 70 ton Barber S-2, for use on an Overland tri-level auto rack that is very top heavy, and sprung trucks make this thing bounce all over, Thus the equalized Kadee I thought would be perfect. Unfortunately this may not be the case, if not possible to mount on this brass model. I will, once I get my set, see what I can do to get these to work. My point to my previous post was, that I'd have thought Kadee would have considered brass cars as a mounting application. Maybe this was an oversight on their part, I do not know.........
Well I did pick up several pairs of both the 100 ton, and the 70 ton at the recent Chicagoland RPM a few weeks back. The 100 ton trucks were mounted with no issue to a pair of Atlas Coalveyor cars re-purposed as DJTX scrap cars. One of the 70 ton versions was attached to an Overland tri-level auto rack using flat head metric machine screws, and using the Kadee truck bushing alone. Careful tightening of the screws provided the slight rock to the truck, while allowing the truck to equalize properly. Checking with a Kadee coupler gauge proved a correct coupler height. Plus the car rides better and does not rock wildly any longer.
@John Sethian posted:A few observations based on my one pair of Bettendorfs;
Much better engineered than a lot of brass offering
Doesn't take much.
New Kadee Bettendorfs mounted on an Atlas X29:
These are far superior in looks than the Atlas trucks. The overall truck width is correct, unlike the Atlas trucks that stick out way too far.* Also, note the journal details, brake details, proper thickness side frames, proper thickness springs, and plank thickness. The wheel sets have a more realistic tread width and a prototypical axle diameter. Not only do they look a whole lot better, they have very good rolling resistance and equalization. The car easily rolls down a 1/2 % grade.
Compare with the bloated blobs of metal that come with the Atlas car:
Incidentally, they come apart very easily by spreading the entire brake shoe assembly and pulling it downward. I chucked the wheel sets in a drill and sanded off the coating on the tread. I would rather that stuff come off on my sanding stick than the rails on my layout
The only drawback is the cost. But for some "hero" cars, it may be worth it
*This is not a 3 rail driven thing. Atlas trucks are much wider than Lionel and MTH trucks.
in the shop on the railroad I worked at they had a t square shaped device ( home made I suspect) that sat across the rails to measure coupler hight. it was 3 feet from railhead to the center of the knuckle not Sure what the plus or minus measurement was up or down from this.there were also shims or wear plates between the bottom of the coupler shank and the draft gear box to just the hight , some metal and more recently some kind of plastic material. also you were not allowed to paint trucks as it hid cracked and defects in the castings.
Direct fit on Lionel’s 62’ beer cars. I knew atlas trucks were direct fit, so I had a hunch the included adapters would do it. Only thing you need is a 1/2” screw. The supplied ones aren’t long enough.
BNSF car is on kadee 754 ASF trucks. The Golden West car is on Lionel trucks with a 2 rail bolster from the 6-84463 conversion kit and NWSL 36” wheels.
I think the Kadee trucks look great . I just hope the price comes down.
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