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A review for most of you; I feel it is important this content be in the OGR archives. I have been putting this off for a year and just realized last night I had not posted this on OGR. Well better late than never.

I am very proud that I worked on this assignment with Key Model Imports; a dream come true for me. My first real experience as a researcher; nonetheless I covered a lot of ground. There are a lot of misconceptions about the E5 out there from stainless panels applied to a E6 like a Pullman Standard lightweight car to fellas thinking the red paint was the first variation. It was difficult to weed through the rumors and come to hard facts. I am indebted to the guys all over that still had records and photos and notes about these fine but odd extremely unique locomotives. These were a very different kind of animal that is for sure.

PHASE ONE 1942-1948 Black painted stripes
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PHASE ONE Late Red painted stripes



In the later years these locomotives were so dirty despite acid baths and cleanings at shoppings that we decided to take a standard approach to the late E5 and make it the standard finish. Dull coating the roof was a good option that I think would have worked well however I felt it gets away from the bare stainless finish. However it would have very well simulated the heavy grime and accumulation of life on the rails for 20 years on the roof and ends that were often missed in cleanings.
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Originally Posted by Erik C Lindgren:
Mirrors

(I suppose they also act as wind deflectors with the transparent glass...


Dang I hoped it was not necessary to defend my research.

These are pretty much the standard mirrors of the time... It is an etched part.

On a side note what is up with the membership on OGR these days? Frankly it makes me want to stop adding content. I can keep it to myself just as easily. This takes me time and effort to pull this stuff together for the forum.  I am only responding to recent actions I've seen here on OGR. 

This project has been given the title as the best E5 ever produced in any scale by not just one but several Q experts including the curator of a well known institution charged with preservation of EMC/EMD history. Samples from this run are used as exhibits.

I rest my case.

Seriously! You're getting upset because the man asked a legitimate question?

 

The simple answer is:

They are wind deflectors with mirrors. What's so hard about that?

 

I like the black striped one best. The red striped one looks unfinished.

Last edited by Big Jim
That's what I wrote Mr Big.



Originally Posted by Big Jim:

       
Originally Posted by Erik C Lindgren:
Mirrors

(I suppose they also act as wind deflectors with the transparent glass...


Dang I hoped it was not necessary to defend my research.

These are pretty much the standard mirrors of the time... It is an etched part.

On a side note what is up with the membership on OGR these days? Frankly it makes me want to stop adding content. I can keep it to myself just as easily. This takes me time and effort to pull this stuff together for the forum.  I am only responding to recent actions I've seen here on OGR. 

This project has been given the title as the best E5 ever produced in any scale by not just one but several Q experts including the curator of a well known institution charged with preservation of EMC/EMD history. Samples from this run are used as exhibits.

I rest my case.

Seriously! You're getting upset because the man asked a legitimate question?

 

The simple answer is:

They are wind deflectors with mirrors. What's so hard about that?

 

I like the black striped one best. The red striped one looks unfinished.

Erik,

 

Super fine pictures and excellent research.  Thanks and please keep it up.  Judging from the number of hits your posts get, I gotta believe the silent majority really enjoys them along with those that take the time to post.   

 

Your post kindled fond memories of the E5 on the point of the of the Texas Zephyr coming through my very small home town at the time of Vernon Texas in the 1940's on the FW&D/C&S line between Ft Worth and Denver.  People would come down to the station and sit on the hoods of their cars and watch the Texas Zephyr streak by. Maybe she even stopped now and then.  Can't remember.  

 

I put a penny on the track once.  Couldn't afford a nickel as my allowance was 25 cents a week.  9 cents for a Saturday movie, 5 cents for milk duds and a whole dime to last the rest of the week!  Big money.

Last edited by Austin Bill
Thank you Austin!

OGR is a great bunch of folks


Originally Posted by Austin Bill:

       

Erik,

 

Super fine pictures and excellent research.  Thanks and please keep it up.  Judging from the number of hits your posts get, I gotta believe the silent majority really enjoys them along with those that take the time to post.   

 

Your post kindled fond memories of the E5 on the point of the of the Texas Zephyr coming through my very small home town at the time of Vernon Texas in the 1940's on the FW&D/C&S line between Ft Worth and Denver.  People would come down to the station and sit on the hoods of their cars and watch the Texas Zephyr streak by. Maybe she even stopped now and then.  Can't remember.  

 

I put a penny on the track once.  Couldn't afford a nickel as my allowance was 25 cents a week.  9 cents for a Saturday movie, 5 cents for milk duds and a whole dime to last the rest of the week!  Big money.

Hi Erik,

I have an off topic question I would like to ask you but I don't see an email in your profile.  Is there a way to reach you?  I'll eventually see you at a show around town, or at Caboose Hobbies, so I can ask you when I next I see you if nothing else.

 

Secondly, just a heads up the link in your profile for the Colorado O Scalers is missing an "O".

 

Thanks,

Jim

Last edited by big train
Thank you for info- the link on this post works fine.

erikclindgren@gmail.com

http://coloradooscale.org

Originally Posted by big train:

       
Hi Erik,
I have an off topic question I would like to ask you but I don't see an email in your profile.  Is there a way to reach you?  I'll eventually see you at a show around town, or at Caboose Hobbies, so I can ask you when I next I see you if nothing else.

Secondly, just a heads up the link in your profile for the Colorado O Scalers is missing an "O".

Thanks,
Jim
Last edited by Erik C Lindgren
All materials are: (C) 2015 Key Model Imports (used for reference only) Research material for the Full diaphragms used through 1945-1946 we finally abandoned. Cost versus operation and appearance. imageimageimageimageimageimage
Early preliminary G.O.D. Of the soft portion of the mechanism.
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Construction methodology research using Fred Hill's "Trojan" diaphragm in HO scale.
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We did manage to complete some good drawings and plans.
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Last edited by Erik C Lindgren
It is typical with the Koreans to produce renderings of thoughts or points in the process. image

Hand drawn rendered sketches I did to explain the headlights as they were very different than any of the other early E units.image
All G.O.D.'s are (c)2015 Key Model Imports (tightly cropped view of drawing) used for reference only.

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Last edited by Erik C Lindgren

Erik,

 

The part about diaphrams is interesting and timely for me.

 

Just the other day I was looking at some of my equipment -- most at about the Sunset level of detail -- and thinking about the look of a passenger train on my layout.   

 

Nothing new here but I reaffirmed what I already knew.  Of all the compromises on my models -- the biggest is the diaphragm design and -- of course  it's companion -- the distance between engines and cars.   (To meet my 64 in min radii)

 

So, it's reassuring to see that even at the upper level you and Key struggled with diaphrams.  That said, the ones in the pictures are excellent.    

 

 

 

 

Red nose detailing was difficult in many ways mostly due to finding specific photos of prototype #'s.

C&S was the final resting place for many of these locomotives. In effect further modifications were made beyond the CB&Q's modifications.

It literally was a locomotive by locomotive case. There were rarely two alike. Between 1956-1960 on the Q it was a little easier since the Q did try to maintain a degree a consistency in thier aging fleet.


The C&S and FW&D in the beginning each owned an A/B set of phase 1 E5's. They were unique 9980, 9950 were essentially CB&Q units displayed for Texas Zephyr service between Denver and Houston. 
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Last edited by Erik C Lindgren

Erik - Love your posts and love the research work you did for these fine models, as I am a pleased owner of a Key E5 A/B set.  I am also with Big Jim in agreement that the black stripe looks best, as it mates up beautifully with the stainless steel. I grew up in suburban Burlington territory and remember when all the E's began showing up with Chinese Red stripes. This occured more or less simultaneously with the introduction of the Chinese Red SD-24's in May 1959.

         Myself and my railfan buddies were steam-crazed maniacs in those days, so virtually ignored all the first generation diesels. But not the E5's! We deemed them "honorary steam locomotives". An absolute high water mark in industrial design.

         Please keep your posts coming! Your banner popping up is an automatic click for me!

Many persons feel that the PA's were the most beautiful diesel ever.  For me it was the E5.  It's a treat to see these pictures.

 

Here's some additional info on the E5's that ran in my neck of the woods -- pulling the Texas Zephyr.

 

The Texas Zephyr was a named passenger train operated by the Colorado and Southern Railway and the Fort Worth and Denver Railway (both subsidiaries of the Chicago, Burlington and Quincy Railroad). The train was designated number 1 southbound, and number 2 northbound.

 

Inaugurated on August 22, 1940, the streamlined train ran from Denver, Colorado to Fort Worth and Dallas, Texas, replacing the heavyweight Colorado Special. At Dallas, the Texas Zephyr connected with the Sam Houston Zephyr and Texas Rocket, both operating on the jointly owned Burlington-Rock Island Railroad for through service to Houston.

 

Initially, the train was equipped with Budd-built streamlined stainless steel chair cars and an observation dining-lounge car. Sleeping cars were, however, rebuilt streamlined heavyweight cars. The train was pulled between Denver and Fort Worth by pairs of General Motors Electro-Motive Division stainless steel E5 diesels. To allow adequate time for servicing the diesel locomotives in Fort Worth, a FW&D 550 class 4-6-2 "Pacific" type steam locomotive shuttled the train between Fort Worth and Dallas. It was later replaced by sister E5 diesel locomotives purchased by C&S from parent CB&Q.

 

In 1957, the re-equipping of the 1936 Denver Zephyr made those trainsets available, and they were assigned to the Texas Zephyr. Though older than the original Texas Zephyr equipment, they offered more luxurious amenities. These consists ran on the Texas Zephyr until February 1965, when they were retired and the original equipment restored to the train, albeit with Pullman pool streamlined cars or sleeping cars from the parent CB&Q.

 

As a result of it losing its U.S. Mail contract, the Fort Worth & Denver abandoned all passenger service in 1967, the Texas Zephyr making its last run on September 11 of that year.

 

(RIP E5's and Zephyrs.  That was a great era.  Sucks big time that they're gone).

Last edited by Austin Bill
Thanks mark!

Originally Posted by mark s:

       

Erik - Love your posts and love the research work you did for these fine models, as I am a pleased owner of a Key E5 A/B set.  I am also with Big Jim in agreement that the black stripe looks best, as it mates up beautifully with the stainless steel. I grew up in suburban Burlington territory and remember when all the E's began showing up with Chinese Red stripes. This occured more or less simultaneously with the introduction of the Chinese Red SD-24's in May 1959.

         Myself and my railfan buddies were steam-crazed maniacs in those days, so virtually ignored all the first generation diesels. But not the E5's! We deemed them "honorary steam locomotives". An absolute high water mark in industrial design.

         Please keep your posts coming! Your banner popping up is an automatic click for me!

Originally Posted by mark s:

Erik - Love your posts and love the research work you did for these fine models, as I am a pleased owner of a Key E5 A/B set.  I am also with Big Jim in agreement that the black stripe looks best, as it mates up beautifully with the stainless steel. I grew up in suburban Burlington territory and remember when all the E's began showing up with Chinese Red stripes. This occured more or less simultaneously with the introduction of the Chinese Red SD-24's in May 1959.

         Myself and my railfan buddies were steam-crazed maniacs in those days, so virtually ignored all the first generation diesels. But not the E5's! We deemed them "honorary steam locomotives". An absolute high water mark in industrial design.

         Please keep your posts coming! Your banner popping up is an automatic click for me!

A thin black line around the red stripes might make them pop - any Photoshop artistes open to a little project???

I don't think this project would do well with a fantasy paint scheme. ;-)

While we're at it how about a flame job!


Originally Posted by MTN:

       
Originally Posted by mark s:
Erik - Love your posts and love the research work you did for these fine models, as I am a pleased owner of a Key E5 A/B set.  I am also with Big Jim in agreement that the black stripe looks best, as it mates up beautifully with the stainless steel. I grew up in suburban Burlington territory and remember when all the E's began showing up with Chinese Red stripes. This occured more or less simultaneously with the introduction of the Chinese Red SD-24's in May 1959.
         Myself and my railfan buddies were steam-crazed maniacs in those days, so virtually ignored all the first generation diesels. But not the E5's! We deemed them "honorary steam locomotives". An absolute high water mark in industrial design.
         Please keep your posts coming! Your banner popping up is an automatic click for me!
A thin black line around the red stripes might make them pop - any Photoshop artistes open to a little project???
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Last edited by Erik C Lindgren

Beautiful work Eric ..very interesting to see all the changes and all the detailed instructions to get the final product correct .  The E5 is certainly a show stopper with it's gleaming stainless and sleek lines .  

I was fortunate to be able to buy a much older model of the E5  with  Adams and Sons castings   could go back to the 1941-42 window when the real E 5's were strutting their stuff ...so she's not bad for a 70+ old gal....

(sorry no rivets to count on this one) oh with bronze/brass castings this is a two hands operation to lift

Cheers Carey 

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Carey - You have just cleared up a minor mystery lurking in my mind for many years.  Bernard Corbin, the supreme modeler and chronicler of the CB&Q, who scratch built something like 100 Burlington steam locomotives, also had an E5 diesel in his roster. I thought, "how the heck did he ever scratch build an E5, what with all the tricky curves, etc. ?"  Your Adams and Sons casting locomotive reveals all !  

(In fact, I wonder if you might not have acquired Bernard Corbin's E5? Since he passed away in 1988, much of his work has shown up in the resale marketplace.)

Last edited by mark s

Hello Mark 

   Hope to help with the minor mystery .....thank you for pointing to Bernard Corbin .... my engine came from Jim Seacrest auction #3 ....Jim had several Corbin steamers .....so perhaps the E5 followed along in one of the deals.

The link to Bernard Corbin would help explain the upscale look of this Adams and Sons  model .....as they are rather "plain Jane" .... as offered from the foundry .... Siebers Bros offered the sides as did Pomona ...

Is there a Corbin  list of engines ? any production photos that may show the E5 in it's earlier years ? 

Here are a few more photos of the engine ...not that is can hold a candle to Eric's ....  but Eric if you if wish try a round of tug of war ...you're on !

Cheers Carey 

 

last photo more typical of a Adams and Sons set of castings built up with Siebers Bros sides ...  sorry  still no rivets to count 

 

IMG_4604IMG_4605IMG_4606IMG_4607ebay 2017 asking 600

 

 

 

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Carey - Thank you for the return message.  Photos of Bernard Corbin's Burlington locomotives can be seen in the May 1958 "Model Railroader" and in Burlington Route Historical Society's "Burlington Bulletin" #36. He constructed more then 100 scratch built Burlington locomotives, as well as D&RGW, C&O, UP and Wabash locomotives. Somewhere - where, o where? - I saw a picture of his E5 and it clearly looked just like yours. Alas, I thought the picture was in Bulletin 36, but not! So I can't cite a photo of Bernard's Adams and Sons E5, but it most assuredly was (the heavy window frames were the memory trigger for me) - - - and I am pretty sure you have his E5, as Jim Seacrest and he were friends. It would appear that all the non Sunset CB&Q locomotives in the Seacrest collection offerings were Corbins.  

If I come across the photo I saw of Corbin's E5, I will advise. He certainly dressed up the base model ! The photo may have been in the BRHS' ancillary publication, "The Zephyr".

These engines are nice looking! stainless stell or aluminium are for me the most beautiful "clothing" for locomotives and passenger cars.

However, here in my country, at the time of a passenger cars renovation, a designer have had the weird idea to paint the stainless steel......poor stupid man! 

Nobody agree, but here, the designers are the kings!

jpv in France

Carey - Mr. Corbin started in the 1930's and continued up to his death in 1988.  There was a Corbin Burlington M4 2-10-4 for sale at this year's Chicago O Scale Meet. It had it's own "personality", as compared to some PSC M4 2-10-4's also for sale at the meet. Looked a bit more ponderous, like the prototype. In previous years a number of Corbin's Burlington articulateds were for sale - - - the lone 2-8-8-2 (#4200)  plus an Elesco and a Worthington 2-6-6-2, each. 

Farmer wanted to try out his new Kodak, saw the silver glint of the approaching Exposition Flyer and stopped just past the new underpass on State Route 14 with his trusty Ford truck and grabbed his new camera only to find out “Making her go fast” Fast Trains in the Golden Years of Railroading Classic Trains special issue 2/09 blurred despite the shutter set as fast as it’ll go! C76AF80D-8624-4FA0-BBFB-2195ECC227C0

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Farmer wanted to try out his new Kodak, saw the silver glint of the approaching Exposition Flyer and stopped just past the new underpass on State Route 14 with his trusty Ford truck and grabbed his new camera only to find out “Making her go fast” Fast Trains in the Golden Years of Railroading Classic Trains special issue 2/09 blurred despite the shutter set as fast as it’ll go! C76AF80D-8624-4FA0-BBFB-2195ECC227C0

Glad to see you responding. Don't think I've seen you posting in a while. OR..... maybe it's just my oldsheimer. BTW I'm still driving 200 mph cars going on 75. Yahoo !!!

Ron H

@Ron H posted:

Glad to see you responding. Don't think I've seen you posting in a while. OR..... maybe it's just my oldsheimer. BTW I'm still driving 200 mph cars going on 75. Yahoo !!!

Ron H

Hi Ron, no I’m not that active here much anymore. It’s a great community but we grew apart. I still like to share occasionally I’m very busy with the hobby and still enjoying my models especially in photography; this is how I enjoy the hobby. 👍☺️

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Who let Stan Kistler in here?

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Last edited by Erik C Lindgren

Farmer wanted to try out his new Kodak, saw the silver glint of the approaching Exposition Flyer and stopped just past the new underpass on State Route 14 with his trusty Ford truck and grabbed his new camera only to find out “Making her go fast” Fast Trains in the Golden Years of Railroading Classic Trains special issue 2/09 blurred despite the shutter set as fast as it’ll go! C76AF80D-8624-4FA0-BBFB-2195ECC227C0

Good think that farmer was using his Kodak Erik.  If he had decided to use his Speed Graphic instead that 4x5 leaf shutter would have made that E5 nose lean forward enough to confuse it with an E7!

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