I just saw on the for sale forum a Lionel up auxiliary water tender where the entire body is warped, I was suprised. Wonder if this thread might be a running list of modern items that have had known issues with zinc rot.
I am aware of:
-JLC GG1 side frames
-MTH BNSF coal porter trucks from the late 90’s
-weaver troop sleepers floors
-Lionel sf scout heavy weight passenger trucks
-MTH amfleet Amtrak premier trucks from the late 90’s
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There's definitely a problem with some Atlas O 50' box car die-cast floors warping.
Atlas 55 ton Hoppers from the 2005 run. I've got a couple that are perfect. But have a number of them that needed repairs. If your lucky. Just the truck mount brakes off. One of mine the entire frame just crumbled. Swapping out the chassis isn't an option given the way they are assembled.
You can repair them. They will ride just slightly higher. Start by carefully drilling out the chassis to accept a 3mm blind nut with the prongs cut off. JB Weld it in place.
While your at the hardware store. Pickup some roll pins that fit snug over the 3mm screw you buy. The right size should also slip inside the Atlas truck. I sanded them down and kept fitting it so that when you tighten the screw. The truck can still pivot. Your basically making a shouldered screw.
Bachmann trolley gear boxes have zinc pest.
I've encountered MTH Railking F-3 frames that have warped. The examples I've seen were from around 2004. Don't know how widespread the problem is.
More to add to the list:
Tender shell from the MTH RailKing Pennsy torpedo.
MTH Premier heavyweight passenger cars - the first ones to get the upgraded diaphragms. The factory changed the truck side frames from one piece to nine piece spring loaded. The thin side frame castings crumble.
rattler21 posted:Some early K-Line heavyweight passenger trucks. May as well mention the fire hazard associated with those early cars. John in Lansing, ILL
Please explain the fire hazard. I have seen MTH Premier super domes burst into flames and smoke, but not K-Line.
RoyBoy,
MTH full domes bursting into flames? Not heard of this one. Any further info on this?
MTH premier p5a boxcabs. I have been on a list at MTH for replacement for about 2 years. MTH has promised to replace these shells for customers when they do a new run of this model. MTH, if you are reading this...……………...I am hoping you will make good on your promise.
rattler21 posted:Early Atlas 54' express reefers and some early K-Line heavyweight passenger trucks. May as well mention the fire hazard associated with those early cars. John in Lansing, ILL
Thank so much for posting those instructions - think I have a set that needs the modification.
I had a first run premier Erie triplex that had zinc rot attacking the top of of the boiler and a few spots that where bubbling. It was getting ugly before I sold it.
Dave
Postwar Lionel FM Trainmasters:
Swelling and cracking of power truck castings leading to an increase in the distance between axles, and subsequent inability of gears to mesh.
Warping, swelling and cracking of battery holder casting on underside of stamped frame.
I don't have the Atlas O Item # for these 40 foot boxcars, as some OGR forum member sold them to me without the boxes and "chose not to mention" that zinc pest rot had destroyed the ladders, grab irons, stirrups and all the wheel trucks.... thanks !!! I am pretty sure he knew what was going on as when the box arrived, all the disintegrating detail parts were floating around in the bottom of the box....
These were the WM 40 foot, XAR double door boxcars.... I ended up finding some replacement ladders, maybe Weaver, and then weathered them as I wasn't going to resell these "problem children" to some other person... Managed to save two of the four trucks with some metal parts and JB Weld. what a mess....
Dave C: that's a pretty neat idea using JB Weld to epoxy in the the blind "T" nut and the "shoulder screw" to make a threaded mount for the truck.
The Williams/Bachmann Peter Witt trolleys have serious zinc rot problems in the trucks.
I had an MTH Railking GG1 with PS3 (total POS) that started showing cracks in the shell. With a laundry list of other issues, I sold it for parts and bought a Williams.
I've had zinc rot issues with some coupler knuckles on my Lionel I-12 cabeese. I also had the same problem recently on my Atlas"O" (first-run) F2/3 "B" unit's coupler knuckle which disintegrated when I coupled a train to it.
chris a posted:I don't have the Atlas O Item # for these 40 foot boxcars, as some OGR forum member sold them to me without the boxes and "chose not to mention" that zinc pest rot had destroyed the ladders, grab irons, stirrups and all the wheel trucks.... thanks !!! I am pretty sure he knew what was going on as when the box arrived, all the disintegrating detail parts were floating around in the bottom of the box....
These were the WM 40 foot, XAR double door boxcars.... I ended up finding some replacement ladders, maybe Weaver, and then weathered them as I wasn't going to resell these "problem children" to some other person... Managed to save two of the four trucks with some metal parts and JB Weld. what a mess....
Dave C: that's a pretty neat idea using JB Weld to epoxy in the the blind "T" nut and the "shoulder screw" to make a threaded mount for the truck.
I had the GN, C&O, and GM&O DD Boxcars all with the same problems. I think they were all from the first series....2004.
I wish Atlas would rerun these and a few others.
I have nothing to add, except to suggest that O.P. add the term "zinc pest" to his post. It will make this thread more easily found by future searchers, since the malady is often called by that name.
Hump Yard Mike posted:I just saw on the for sale forum a Lionel up auxiliary water tender where the entire body is warped, I was suprised. Wonder if this thread might be a running list of modern items that have had known issues with zinc rot.
I am aware of:
-JLC GG1 side frames
-MTH BNSF coal porter trucks from the late 90’s
-weaver troop sleepers floors
-Lionel sf scout heavy weight passenger trucks
-MTH amfleet Amtrak premier trucks from the late 90’s
MTH Commodore Vanderbilt PS-1 era drivers (Early 1990'S). You have to replace the entire chassis with the gear train and drivers. The cost (less than $100) is NOT the worst issue. What is, is that the direct replacement part number is not available from MTH parts- although some later MTH Hudsons or other MTH 4-6-4 chassis will work.
I have no personal experience with this particular case, but I have read some warnings that many of the Lionel 6-18010 PRR turbines have zinc rot problems. Don't know if it's true or not.
Until I read this thread, I was unaware of just how prevalent this serious problem still is. Yes, I know -- the stuff is made in China, where they either don't know or don't care. Or both. But it appears that until a lot more loud voices are raised to the American importers, they are just going to continue accepting this shoddy, self-destructing alloy and passing it on to us.
This post needs a spread sheet listing all of the reported Zinc Pest items, their brand name, their part number and location of concern. So far, I have not had any noticeable Zinc Pest issues, but I buy used locomotives and it would be nice to know those to avoid.
I too have experienced this problem having had some KLine GG1 power truck frames disintegrate. Having spent over 46 years working in the import business, I've seen examples of bad metallurgy in a number of products from China (as well as Pakistan and India) including brake rotors, automobile water pumps, and assorted tools. What amazes me is that most of you will probably eat food on a regular basis that has been prepared on cookware (often non-stick coated) from these same countries!! As a serious amateur cook, i'm still using domestically made very old cast iron skillets, 50+ year old Revere Ware, and newer products from American Kitchen.
Lionel Cascade Logging set dockside switcher rear coupler desinergrates. I had two of these just fall apart. Lionel had a good replacement part though.
My Atlas O PFE Express Reefers all have crumbling bolsters.
The K-Line HW passenger cars was the biggest issue I ever had with the issue. I was lucky K-Line was still up and running and sent me new trucks if I did the labor.
Lionel 6-38076 C&O and 6-38077 Virginian scale Berkshires boilers are beginning to show signs of zinc rot too.
Are the MTH affected products China or Korea?
GregR posted:Postwar Lionel FM Trainmasters:
Swelling and cracking of power truck castings leading to an increase in the distance between axles, and subsequent inability of gears to mesh.
Warping, swelling and cracking of battery holder casting on underside of stamped frame.
GregR,
How widespread is this problem? I've been buying and running Lionel's post-war Trainmasters for almost 45 years and this is the first time I've heard of zinc pest problems on them. Hairline cracks around the screw holes on the shells yes but not zinc rot. Is this a personal experience or someone else's problem? I would really like to know.
@M J Breen woah, not the Odyssey berks too! Can you please post a couple pics showing the extent of it?
VistaDomeScott posted:RoyBoy,
MTH full domes bursting into flames? Not heard of this one. Any further info on this?
It happened several years ago. Might have been a pinched wire, but unfortunately, I do not remember.
Lionel 6-38081 Allegheny steam pipes and tender doors (replaced doors already, had to buy the whole tender to get them). 
Lionel PS1 box cars with the die cast frames. Don’t know the years but I have a Rutland and saw an MKT for sale here on the forum with the tell tale cracks. The brake components are brass but the frames are die cast and crumbling! Also, trucks on Lionel Heavyweight NYC cars from about eight years ago doing the same.
The Lionel 1988 issue of the Hiawatha - both the engine shell and the diecast car body underframes. There was an "early" phase of reporting problems about 10 years after they came out and there have been more recent reports of the same problems showing up later.
JINI5. I am also on that same list and also hopes MTH stands behind that commitment. A lot of money for that P5a if they don’t. I want to put one of John’s BCR’s init but afraid to take it apart for fear of what might happen when I do. So for now it is a shelf ornament.
OK, why just make things without zinc?
RJT posted:JINI5. I am also on that same list and also hopes MTH stands behind that commitment. A lot of money for that P5a if they don’t. I want to put one of John’s BCR’s init but afraid to take it apart for fear of what might happen when I do. So for now it is a shelf ornament.
Thanks JINI5 for posting. Mine has it as well.
As much as we collectively spend in this hobby, we should expect better in terms of quality. Märklin faced similar issues in the last 10 - 15 years or so, mainly with products also made in Asia. I’ve been fortunate that none of my older [German] Märklin, [US] Lionel, or even early [South Korean] MTH and pre-Bachmann [China] Williams items have been effected... yet. (I continue to keep a close eye on things.)
It really does come down to quality control, something that’s pretty tough to do when the “home office” is thousands of miles away. Then again, we do live in a throw away society, where planned obsolescence or “creative destruction” is a given. I’ll continue to purchase those older, “obsolete” items without the modern electronics for a lot less than the newer ones... and hope for the best.
dkdkrd posted:I'm sure the list is going to suggest that, if the product sez "Made in China" on the item or the box, and the item had one or more zinc alloy castings in its construction, it's either suspect or already victimized. It's not confined to a particular manufacturer, a particular production run of an item, a particular time period, etc., etc.. Which is why, after all these 'made-in-China' years of overseas production using zinc alloy castings, the best advice would be to periodically inspect your inventory....thoroughly.
Which leads to the next suggestion: Why wouldn't we also include a possible or proven corrective action for every instance of zinc pest? To know you have the problem...or inventory item(s) that might have the problem...is hard enough on the ol' ticker. To know that there's a (possible) solution would be a valuable benefit to the whole exercise.....IMHO, of course.
KD the point of having a list is that it's NOT a widespread problem, and it's not specific to any one country or manufacturer. Only a FEW models from each manufacturer are affected. But when a model is known to be affected, it's likely that others of that batch are also affected. The point is to make folks aware of the problem pieces so they can make an informed purchase decision. There is no "cure," except replacing the defective castings with good ones. The list will show OEM's (and possibly individuals with 3D printing capabilities, etc.) where there may be a need for another production run, or a market for replacement parts.
It also raises awareness of the issue, which might encourage the OEMs and foreign contractors to improve their quality control and metallurgy. I agree that it should be in a spreadsheet. To prevent panic and misinformation, the spreadsheet should contain hyperlinks to photographic evidence supplied by at least two or three contributors.
I agree that they should not have this problem at all, it is simply not right. But the reality is that the importers are totally at the mercy of the Asian manufacturing, and (in the case of China) the Communist government. This is because the model train market is not big enough and the importers are not big enough businesses to support on-site QC in a country half a World away.
Solutions:
1. Many of us want more modern product, but zinc rot seems to be widespread, though only in certain "runs" of certain (generally Asian) manufactured products- but NOT only one importer (Lionel, K Line, MTH, etc.) So, we cannot just say: "don't buy ABC locomotives". A list, kept up to date, on this forum or another location will help those of us who buy "pre-owned" stuff.
Such a list is a double-edged sword: When you already own a product that is prone to this issue, AND the list is available- your locomotive or car is lowered in value or unsalable. Many of us will NOT like that. But- how can the "buyer beware" UNLESS the information is public??
2. Another major issue is- the availability of replacement PARTS. Body cracking, add-on details that crack, etc. do not make the locomotive or car unusable, and/or can be repaired given some skill. But when the WHEELS/DRIVERS crack (like mine did), then the entire product becomes a wall decoration. If you could easily buy a new chassis that does NOT get the zinc rot, even at $75- $100, your investment would be saved. Fortunately, in my case the manufacturer stepped in and sent a replacement (MTH - thanks Mike!).
But there are cases where NOBODY has the part, not even the importer, because (I understand) that today even they do not have easy access to parts- rumor is that they have to pirate parts off of extra product ordered from each run. This because the Chinese are so worried that an American importer might buy parts then assemble them in the USA or elsewhere. (If I am wrong on this- then somebody who really KNOWS, just say so- and I will modify this post.)
3. Made in USA- would allow local QC. But a HUGE investment- since (again) the Chinese government controls the tooling. I understand that the tooling (hundreds of thousands of dollars) would be an investment that is just not possible- see above about market size and the size of the companies.
I wonder how many of the new trains we are buying right now will make it onto this list in the future?
I have had my share of issues. However do not misinterpret the zinc pest for paint issues. I have had bubbles and warping from a couple of different manufacturers. I have also seen misapplied paint that looks similar however the issue doesn't go down to the locomotive skin. I know my plastic shells aren't suffering from Zinc Rot and some of your die cast locomotives aren't either. If the surface is smooth and not warped below the paint; you have a paint issue not zinc rot.
Scott Smith
What causes “paint rash”, i.e., tiny specks/ bubbles that appear in the surface of painted die-cast models? Is it a paint or metal defect? I have a number of older (20 to 25 years old) Franklin Mint and Danbury Mint models that developed “paint rash” stored in the box in climate controlled storage.
With regard to quality control: Scott Mann of 3rd Rail makes regular trips to South Korea to inspect each item of a model run. If this relatively small outfit can do so, why can't Lionel or MTH do the same?
rex desilets posted:With regard to quality control: Scott Mann of 3rd Rail makes regular trips to South Korea to inspect each item of a model run. If this relatively small outfit can do so, why can't Lionel or MTH do the same?
I know that Mike Wolf spends a lot of time observing and inspecting in China the manufacturing process. You cannot tell if the raw zinc is contaminated by looking at it. It only take a small amount of lead to destroy a finished product over time.
Scott Smith
Randy_B posted:I wonder how many of the new trains we are buying right now will make it onto this list in the future?
Too many. 
D&H 65 posted:I've had zinc rot issues with some coupler knuckles on my Lionel I-12 cabeese. I also had the same problem recently on my Atlas"O" (first-run) F2/3 "B" unit's coupler knuckle which disintegrated when I coupled a train to it.
I’ve had the same problem with the couplers on an Atlas O SD35 from 2003 #6803-3 (B&O #7407). I was recently surprised when one of the electro-couplers seemed to not work. Upon closer inspection and trying the other end of the engine, they both had zinc rot and crumbled in front of my eyes. While I could have replaced these with new electro-couplers, I chose to convert this engine to Kadee’s to run with several freight cars previously converted to scale Kadee couplers. Looks far better and no zinc rot.
SIGH....
Only one of my 5 weaver troop cars appear ok - I DID NOT even attempt to remove this one
from the Styrofoam - think the only way it is coming out is by cutting away the Styrofoam.
from the box. I had one on my layout and when I removed the body from the floor - the
floor broke into three pieces...
The 6 wheel trucks on a K-Line heavyweight passenger car crumbled to pieces when I took it out of the box. I replaced them with Lionel heavyweight passenger trucks & so far, so good,
John23 posted:The 6 wheel trucks on a K-Line heavyweight passenger car crumbled to pieces when I took it out of the box. I replaced them with Lionel heavyweight passenger trucks & so far, so good,
Wait what? I bought someone's old K-Line Heavyweights just for the trucks, and come to find out can use Lionel? Is it a part number like the Weaver trucks, or more like a repair part number?
Michael T, This 3 Pak set of Lionel Penn Red Arrow cars (6-25635) had all six trucks crumble, including a diner. I replaced them with these trucks from Lionel. They may work for your K-Line cars. Good luck.
scott.smith posted:rex desilets posted:With regard to quality control: Scott Mann of 3rd Rail makes regular trips to South Korea to inspect each item of a model run. If this relatively small outfit can do so, why can't Lionel or MTH do the same?
I know that Mike Wolf spends a lot of time observing and inspecting in China the manufacturing process. You cannot tell if the raw zinc is contaminated by looking at it. It only take a small amount of lead to destroy a finished product over time.
Scott Smith
In a thread over on S Scale Groups.io, Brian Jackson made this comment: “Zinc pest is the result of impurities in the alloy. Usually, what happens is the casting company has trouble getting the cavities to fill, so it introduces lead into the alloy to get the die to work properly. The castings look great, until years later they disintegrate. The NADCA standards prohibit such practices.”
I don’t know how true it may be, but this would not surprise me, simply because it seems too common of an occurrence in too many different items for too many years now (as long as I can remember, and I’m almost 73!) for zinc pest to be just a random accidental contamination.
Bill in FtL
Bill Nielsen posted:scott.smith posted:rex desilets posted:With regard to quality control: Scott Mann of 3rd Rail makes regular trips to South Korea to inspect each item of a model run. If this relatively small outfit can do so, why can't Lionel or MTH do the same?
I know that Mike Wolf spends a lot of time observing and inspecting in China the manufacturing process. You cannot tell if the raw zinc is contaminated by looking at it. It only take a small amount of lead to destroy a finished product over time.
Scott Smith
In a thread over on S Scale Groups.io, Brian Jackson made this comment: “Zinc pest is the result of impurities in the alloy. Usually, what happens is the casting company has trouble getting the cavities to fill, so it introduces lead into the alloy to get the die to work properly. The castings look great, until years later they disintegrate. The NADCA standards prohibit such practices.”
I don’t know how true it may be, but this would not surprise me, simply because it seems too common of an occurrence in too many different items for too many years now (as long as I can remember, and I’m almost 73!) for zinc pest to be just a random accidental contamination.
Bill in FtL
No, not true. They do not mix lead with zinc to improve the casting process. Lead can come with the source ore, and there have been a few older technologies in which lead has been a part of the refining process prior to the casting process. In either case, there were steps in the respective refining process to remove lead... There are specified allowable limits for various zinc alloys... Lots of info out there if one cares to search and read. It is not really dark science or magic. If processes and checks are not adhered to this can happen does not matter if it is Lionel, MTH, Quisinart, or Chevy... and because of the actual process and time involved in the actual failure, it does not manifest its self until after the component has been on a shelf for a period of time. This is a metallurgy failure, not to be mixed in with casting process failures such as cold shots, poor flow and porosity, they are not necessarily related.
illinoiscentral posted:John23 posted:The 6 wheel trucks on a K-Line heavyweight passenger car crumbled to pieces when I took it out of the box. I replaced them with Lionel heavyweight passenger trucks & so far, so good,
Wait what? I bought someone's old K-Line Heavyweights just for the trucks, and come to find out can use Lionel? Is it a part number like the Weaver trucks, or more like a repair part number?
It's not a drop-in fit. I had to do some work on it. Can't remember exactly what, as it was awhile ago.
Lots of discussion. BUT... How about we ask for brass, tin, aluminum or steel castings and forget about diecast all together. With the thousands of items being made and the potential for thousands in the future, cost increase should be negligible. We keep hearing how new items are not produced using old parts. How everything is costly due to "new tooling".
How bout the mfg "new tooling" include new material. .....Hybrid,.... steel, aluminum, brass, and tin. ( all will have the desired effect of weight and metal...which is what is "required" by most hobbiests).
justakid posted:Lots of discussion. BUT... How about we ask for brass, tin, aluminum or steel castings and forget about diecast all together. With the thousands of items being made and the potential for thousands in the future, cost increase should be negligible. We keep hearing how new items are not produced using old parts. How everything is costly due to "new tooling".
How bout the mfg "new tooling" include new material. .....Hybrid,.... steel, aluminum, brass, and tin. ( all will have the desired effect of weight and metal...which is what is "required" by most hobbiests).
This is a reasonable thought or question, but there are reasons that zinc alloy castings are used versus Aluminum or brass for example. The quick comments are that both are more expensive as bulk casting materials and the zinc alloys have much lower melting temperatures and due that the casting dies do have a much longer life span and the with lower casting temps, the material provides much less shrinkage, especially compared to brass. I'd have to check but the AL and Brass may require higher injection pressures which could necessitate more costly machinery. It is all about cost here.
The other thing to keep in mind here is that honestly, as hard as it may be to recognize or accept, the actual percent of diecast parts that have or get zinc pest is a fraction of a percent of ALL the diecast components on all Lionel and or MTH trains. If you think about it, it really is a batch here and a batch there but because a single component may be run from an individual batch, the effect is every like part on a loco for example is bad, like the GG1 truck frames in the other thread.
Sorry I am babbling, but it is interesting to learn about and hopefully a better understanding might prevent someone from being either blindly worried that every train they have will self destruct or falsely comfortable that this is a perfect technology and nothing like this is possible to happen again.
Toys made in the early 1900"s were tinplate or cast iron. I have seen many surviving examples of both. I have also seen the remnants of diecast toys from that era. More tinplate than diecast or cast iron seems to have survived. Musical instruments of brass, copper and tin from that era also seem to have withstood the test of time. Brass clock movements survive. Metal cylinder music boxes of steel tin and wood survive. Pot metal and some diecast seem to eventually disentigrate. Methods of production of "other" metals must surely have improved in 100 years. There are some beautiful o scale "tinplate" models made in Europe, at prices comparable to US imported diecast. I would bet some of the parts of those models might be imported from China. If we create a "need" China will find a way to produce and sell to us. Look at some of the lithograph embossed cookie tins " Made in China". They know how to stamp and emboss steel too.
Zinc rot?
My plastic and metal LGB and Piko locomotives and rolling stock, ( made in Germany and then China) are running fine over the last 10 years.
Not trying to grind an axe head.
O scale 6 wheel passenger trucks are stamped metal assemblies with diecast sideframes and steel needle point axles with wheels. Why can't someone provide stamped metal sideframes? ( as replacements and new product).
Why do trucks have to be diecast? They are already more than half stamped metal. Knuckle Couplers are diecast, but the arms and springs are metal. Could a knuckle be cast in steel ? All the other parts are readily produced. We need to ask for a change and not continue to complain. Most accept a higher cost for bells and whistles. Maybe a "better" metal solution won't increase cost. Diecast as a model medium has continued due to hobbiests demand, percieved as "better". Maybe, maybe not.
I always liked die cast - I have Lionel 700 series and the MTH hudson in die cast.
The early 700T had a horrible record of disintegrating - fortunately, repros abound.
I now prefer lost wax or lost plastic brass, bronze, or nickel silver. It is more expensive, but with newer 3 D printers costs may be coming down.
I am lusting after an MTH Bi-polar at the moment. Any reports of faulty castings in them?
I bought several sets of "Weaver" arch bar trucks, which l have used a lot of in bashes, just before Weaver disappeared, and when l tried to use any of, all crumbled in my hands. I understand these were procured for Weaver " over there". And, of course, in an O scale show, a fellow victim grumbled that good trucks, if available, cost more than the car.
scott.smith posted:I have had my share of issues. However do not misinterpret the zinc pest for paint issues. I have had bubbles and warping from a couple of different manufacturers. I have also seen misapplied paint that looks similar however the issue doesn't go down to the locomotive skin. I know my plastic shells aren't suffering from Zinc Rot and some of your die cast locomotives aren't either. If the surface is smooth and not warped below the paint; you have a paint issue not zinc rot.
Scott Smith
Scott can explain this issue about thee paint with little more detail. Looking at the photos posted concerning the MTH P5a and looking at mine it does appear that there is no deformity in the shell/body casting of the locomotive but it has those hairline cracks all over it. I am afraid to do anything with it for fear it will crumble.
My zinc rot items...
K-Line early heavyweight trucks
Weaver trucks
RailKing Hiawatha drive wheels
add the crumbling diecast to failed circuit boards, and longevity of "collectible" trains is not assured.
I often wonder why such high priced hobby items don't use brass trucks, It probably goes back to the P/W Lionel days when zinc was the economical choice but rot wasn't as common back then as it is now. Today's Asian produced Zamak alloy contains impurities and that causes deterioration.
@chris a posted:I don't have the Atlas O Item # for these 40 foot boxcars, as some OGR forum member sold them to me without the boxes and "chose not to mention" that zinc pest rot had destroyed the ladders, grab irons, stirrups and all the wheel trucks.... thanks !!! I am pretty sure he knew what was going on as when the box arrived, all the disintegrating detail parts were floating around in the bottom of the box....
These were the WM 40 foot, XAR double door boxcars.... I ended up finding some replacement ladders, maybe Weaver, and then weathered them as I wasn't going to resell these "problem children" to some other person... Managed to save two of the four trucks with some metal parts and JB Weld. what a mess....
Dave C: that's a pretty neat idea using JB Weld to epoxy in the the blind "T" nut and the "shoulder screw" to make a threaded mount for the truck.
I have these same cars with the exact same problems
Only zinc pest I have is my ATlas war emergency hoppers.
I wonder how many here have items crumbling away in their boxes and they don't even know it! 
I used to collect 1:18 diecast automobiles and there are pictures of models crumbling away within their unopened window boxes.
Dave, bummer. That paint job looks good. Luckily you hadn't gotten around to the decal and clearcoat.
You can add Williams passenger car trucks and diesel sideframes to the list. I have had pest on both my 72' streamliners and my 72' heavyweights and a few locos.
I may have a couple of MTH scale boxcars that I bought 15 to 20 years ago with couplers that may have this zinc rot problem.
This is probably a stupid question: is there anything that can be done to eliminate the zinc rot or minimize its effects?
My recollection is that when I encountered it, I sprayed some WD 40 on it.
Arnold
@Arnold D. Cribari posted:This is probably a stupid question: is there anything that can be done to eliminate the zinc rot or minimize its effects?
Arnold
Unfortunately, no. It is an issue within the metal itself caused by impurities in the zinc. You can patch them up, but that is a short term solution because the corrosion effects will continue. I repaired some pesty items a while back. I expect them to fail again at which time hopefully some affordable, quality parts will be available to repair them properly.
MTH 20-6519 Amfleet passenger coaches. Couplers have zinc rot issues...
I purchased approximately 14 pairs of Lionel "O" Scale 2 Spring Sprung Bettendorf Trucks and 3 Spring Sprung Roller Bearing Trucks and put them in a closet and forgot about them around the early 2000s. About 2 years ago, I had need for several of the Roller Bearing Trucks and got them out of the closet. Yep, 5 pair of the roller bearing trucks were disintegrating. Anything that was made out of pot metal was falling apart. I called Lionel up in North Carolina and talked to someone in the warranty dept and the person told me "it was out of warranty". I asked would they exchange them -- the answer was NO! I asked if they would fix them, I would pay the bill for it -- The answer was No! That was the last time I ever bought a Lionel Product.
Added this on 07/07/2020--I received an email from someone saying that I was bashing LIONEL with my commentary above. This is the honest truth what happened when I called Lionel's warranty department about 2 years ago. I was not the one at fault, this was Lionel's Problem in which they put zinc rot car trucks onto the market. The sad thing about this is that Lionel uses Chinese Companies that could not care less if there pot metal is contaminated with lead or zinc.....and we the buyers get the Rot if we buy something contaminated. The same thing goes for the MTH stuff that comes from China. So what are you going to do? Examine your Chinese made trains for zinc rot every week?
I have had trucks from MTH that had Zinc Rot also. I had sold several "O" Scale UP Tuscan Gondolas to a gentleman and he reported to me that several of the Pot Metal Coupler Armatures on some of the cars were disintegrating. Lucky, I had several extra of the trucks and sent them to him.
The latest incident of Zinc Rot took place about 5 weeks ago. I had bought a N&W Railking Streamline J and it had a beautiful die-cast engine and tender plus 4 freight cars. I just took it out of the box after purchasing the set way back around 1998. The engine had a small problem with the smoke unit, but the tender was a disaster. I wanted to put a new battery in the tender and took the item apart. I got the metal base off the tender, separated from the top shelf with no difficulty. I checked out the tender and as I held it in my hand, one of the side frames to one of the trucks broke off. Then another side frame broke off and finally all 4 side frames broke off. I just sat there and looked in dismay at the mess that just occurred. I got out my Trusty Dollar Store Tube of superglue and worked for over 4 frustrating hours, but I was able to get the trucks back together. I took the engine/tender over to a gentlemen that use to repair trains at Davis Trains (now defunct) in Milford, Ohio. He told me that he has seen a lot of the dreadful zinc rot over the years. He sees a lot of Railking "stuff" and he will try to get me some new side frames.
Lesson Learned by these incidences......Inspect your trains regularly. The reason why we have Zinc Rot in pot metal used In our toy trains is that the country were the die-casting is done does not really care what kind of metal they use. They just take it in on recycling and could not care less if it is contaminated with zinc/lead or not. Remember, we are over 3000 miles from there country and they could not care less what is being sent to us.
I wonder if they are putting out $2000 dollar engines and sending them to the USA that have contaminated pot metal casting?
PS--Of all the Toy Trains that I have bought from South Korea, I have never had a problem with them nor had I ever had a case zinc rot.
Added on 07/07/2020 ---- The real answer to not having a zinc or lead "ROT" in our trains is to make the trucks and any extra parts of hard PLASTIC. How many people are going to visit your layout with a magnifying glass to check to see if the trucks or add on parts are made from plastic and not metal. Toy trains should be fun to operate and we should not have the worry that the side frames, coupler armatures, etc will decay due to contamination from lead or zinc. Axles and wheels of freight/passenger cars should be steel and extra add on parts should be made from durable plastic.....enough said and done --- sincerely yours railbear601
I'm surprised no one mentioned the kline box cars. I bought several of the Santa fe map series boxcars. They stayed in the box for many years. When I went to use them I found several of the truck frames had disintegrated inside the box.
"Inspect your trains regularly"
Unfortunately, I don't think there is much one can do once the rot appears. The only thing is to make sure the pieces you are running don't fall apart while they are being run.
I've been buying used rolling stock recently and this thread made me check each piece (specifically the couplers and trucks). So far so good!
Well...I have a proto-1 big boy that is slowly rotting away...so this problem has been around for a long time....
I just returned a MTH RS-1 diesel to the seller (not an individual) that had damaged side frames because of "zink-rot".
Appears the disintegration happened during shipping. The MTH manufacture date was from 2010.
The ladders, grab irons and stirrups on my Atlas 8508-series MDT reefers disintegrated. Because Altas built these cars using what had been Intermountain tooling, I was able to replace the broken pieces easily with original (plastic) Intermountain components.
Sorry to revive an old thread, but I need to add the MTH Railking SP Daylight set to the list that was cataloged from 2000-2002. I've seen two examples that were both 2001 production that had swelling and disintegration to the drivers. All other cast parts are perfect at this time.
Everytime this topic comes up, I feel the need to point out that this only seems like a Chinese issue because right now, EVERYTHING is made there. I've had Italian ( Rivarossi) in HO AHM and N scale Atlas with it; US made HO models (John English, Ulrich), and probably some others I'm forgetting.
I understand the frustration, I do, but blaming the Chinese because "they don't care" is probably not...helpful and doesn't solve anything.
Okay, fire away. 🙂
Mark in (wet) Oregon 🎄
I understand this should not be happening but maybe a solution would be 3D printing?
I am don’t know the alot about 3D printing but would 3D printed side frames work as replacements with maybe brackets on the side frames to attach where needed?
I had one example so far a K line Ewing Oil tanker whose trucks crumbled on original unpacking. I fear more rot to come as more units are unearthed from the Underalls.
I used to put a lot of value on die cast, now it's a liability.
@PRRick posted:I used to put a lot of value on die cast, now it's a liability.
....
It's been pointed out elsewhere that the trucks on the Railking 19th century rolling stock pieces can be affected. I have over 150 pieces and I do have a few that have fallen apart. I contacted Midge at MTH over a year ago about buying replacement trucks but they never became available as far as I know. I also do not know of any suitable replacements, even if they need adjusting, manufactured by someone else. It's as if my only option is to try to find some inexpensive complete cars just to cannibalize them for the trucks.
As pointed out above, as well as a post I did a while back, the MTH P5a boxcab (20-5620) has this issue. There are hairline cracks all over the body. I could probably run it, but afraid it will fall apart on a hard to reach section of the layout. Like others, this really hurt the wallet. Since I have few electrics, I will not replace it. It is PS3, so the electronics will be repurposed someday.
The Williams Alco FA-1 (Not the Alco PA) locos will sometimes have zinc pest on the truck side frames and fuel tank. This seems to be most common on the Santa Fe warbonnet paint schemes.
@RoyBoy posted:The Williams Alco FA-1 (Not the Alco PA) locos will sometimes have zinc pest on the truck side frames and fuel tank. This seems to be most common on the Santa Fe warbonnet paint schemes.
The PA's have it also, as do much of the Williams/WbB products. I had to replace a couple of sideframes on one of my Williams PA's.
@rex desilets posted:With regard to quality control: Scott Mann of 3rd Rail makes regular trips to South Korea to inspect each item of a model run. If this relatively small outfit can do so, why can't Lionel or MTH do the same?
Scott Mann and the others DO occasionally travel to Asian countries to inspect. But that is not going to solve the intermittent problems (like zinc pest), UNLESS a QC person is on site all the time.
On site "quality control": In my case, I got a Lionel LionChief 2.0 Polar Express locomotive and tender. It "wobbled" like a duck down the track, so I called Customer Service, got a prepaid label to ship it back, did so, then waited several weeks for it to be returned. Problem: a bent wheel on the tender, replaced. How did this happen? Beats me-
Nobody in China RUNS every locomotive and tender like they did in New Jersey or Michigan; they MAY put on a track to see if it runs, but probably not. (If they did, then the Legacy F3 set I bought a year earlier would have shorted the track, like it did on MY track the first time I tried to run it. No way to miss a problem like this - a short in one truck on the tender- if you ran the thing at all.)
The only practical way to eliminate this stuff is to put REAL QC in place (paying more for manufacturing in China), or move it back to the States (paying more for manufacturing here) Neither is going to happen.
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