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Originally Posted by up148:

In the big picture the coal load is really a moot point. It's a subjective thing. I think it looks a little sterile, but some may like it that way.

 If the coal load and the other relatively minor issues mentioned in this thread are the only problems with the Challenger then I think it's a fantastic success.

I agree, the coal load can be changed.  Overall this model is a home run.

Yes, the Kohs coal load does seem to violate the coefficient of slide. Perhaps the Korean builder thought the UP employed some water thinned Elmers to keep their coal loads in place? !!   I have noticed that Sunset 3rd Rail coal sizing varies from appropriate 3-4" up to bowling balls!  It's funny - - I have friends who essentially bought every steam locomotive produced by Precision Scale, and the more they studied each locomotive, the madder they got! "For God's sake, the incombibulator is 3" too short", etc. etc.

      Guess we have to remember that we could build our own "perfect" locomotive models from scratch. If I were to have tackled a UP 4-6-6-4 with the level of exquisite detail as on this Kohs model, I would have a had to start the model at approximately the time of Cleopatra's rule!

I had a PSC Cab Forward for a decade - on display on my bookshelf.  It really didn't bring me a great deal of joy.  In its place I now have a scratchbuilt model of the same thing and I am quite happy with it.  I was free to continue detailing it until I was happy. I stopped well short of a Kohs or Schrader model, but my stopping point was a choice.

The way that the coal naturally falls into an enclosure (like a tender) is known as the angle of repose. I suppose that, at times, the top of the coal pile was "manually trimmed" with a shovel by whomever was in charge of the chute!

I also would be interested in knowing how well the model runs, especially speed at a "standard" voltage, say 12 VDC. Also, what voltage is the engine designed for...or can use? I suppose that with a sound system better operation might be at 18 volts?

Originally Posted by up148:

Coal loads don't come with the Kohs Challenger.......it is owner added. Since this is a subjective choice there is no right or wrong, just what you like. 

 

Butch

The Kohs C&O H8 came with a coal load that could be placed in the tender if the owner wished to.  (oh a dangling preposition.)

 

Larry

Originally Posted by mwb:

Interesting that 1/2 the discussion relates to a coal load and not to actual model accuracy and prototype fidelity.

 

Used to be that O scale modelers could change out a coal load w/o too much angst being encountered.

 

O tempora! O mores!

Maybe that is a tribute to the model and the level of the detail. 

Originally Posted by LLKJR:
Originally Posted by mwb:

Interesting that 1/2 the discussion relates to a coal load and not to actual model accuracy and prototype fidelity.

 

Used to be that O scale modelers could change out a coal load w/o too much angst being encountered.

 

O tempora! O mores!

Maybe that is a tribute to the model and the level of the detail. 

Quite possibly so....then again....trust, but verify springs to mind vs. blind acceptance of all but a coal load......

 

 

 

 

Originally Posted by bob2:

The coal load controversy reminds me of three rail scale - this sort of thing would make them nuts!

 

Personally, if I were going to buy a model in this price range, it would have to fit the appropriate track gauge.  The coal load would be small potatoes in comparison.

The only reason I don't own any Kohs locos!!!   Them wheels just ain't right. 

The model is incredible in its detail, electronics and overall appearance. Absolutely the finest (IMHO) model produced of this prototype to date. It breaks ground on so many levels its hard to know where to begin and where to stop. I've only run it on a test stand and a short test track on DCC power and it performed flawlessly. A little tight at first, but even the 1st time I ran it the slow speed was incredible. 

 

It's equipped with dual ZIMO decoders. One in the loco and one in the tender. They are programmed to work in unison or independently so there are no electrical wires connecting the loco and tender together. Great idea!  Each one functions independently or when placed together on the track they work as one. So strange to see the loco (less tender) run and operate normally.

 

The ZIMO decoders sound great (much better than previous Kohs decoders) from the whistle which sounds just like the Challengers I've heard on my UP DVD's to all the other sounds you'd expect including a host of sounds while the loco is sitting idle on the track. The steam chuff goes in and out of synch like the prototype. Twin speakers in the boiler so the sound comes from the right area. Very impressive. 

 

Headlights, classification lights, number board lights, work lights (3 each side under the walkway and 1 under the rear cab roof), instrument lights and firebox flicker on the loco and back-up lights on the tender. Different CV's control which lights turn on and off as you would expect. 

 

There are so many opening hatches, doors, work steps and windows on both the loco and tender that I haven't even found them all. Most doors and hatches have little latches that swivel to lock them closed and a few on the tender have a small magnet that snaps them closed. It's just about overwhelming and I'm still taking it all in. 

 

I don't have an operational layout, but running it on a test stand and on a small test track it performed flawlessly. It has momentum so when the power is cut off it rolls to a stop (almost rolled off the end of the test track) . Not sure if this is due to flywheels or decoder programming but it starts and stops very smoothly. Very anxious to run it on a layout and see how it looks and behaves when it's opened up.  

 

Butch

 

PS: I measured the tire thickness, back to back spacing and flange depth on all the drivers and wheels with a micrometer and THIS Kohs loco is in gage. I was concerned and several Kohs model owners I know were very interested as well. They were all satisfied with the numbers I came up with, so wheel gage doesn't seem to be an issue on this model.  

 

PSS: Mine has a whistle chain from the whistle to the 1st boiler sheet joint aft of the whistle and my coupler orientation was correct as well. I heard the Indy Challengers had these problems so they must have been corrected by Kohs before my model was shipped. 

 

It is an overwhelming model that is just fantastic. I'm very happy with mine!

 

Butch

Last edited by up148

Just to make my comment clearer - I have no information on whether or not Kohs has proper wheel and track standards.  What I meant was, if I were to purchase the definitive Challenger, it would have to be either 17/64 scale or Proto- 48.  As far as I know, no Jabelmann Challengers were converted to Russian standard gauge.

Bob/Rob,

 

No foul. My PS comments were not aimed at your posts at all. I was just letting everyone know what I found when I measured the wheels as I was told Kohs had some issues in this area in the past and I wanted to clear the air on the Challenger.

 

 

Rob, your comment on brain surgery is so true. This is a real problem on many of these super-sophisticated models we are seeing these days. If it breaks you're in trouble because taking one of these apart is way beyond most modelers (me included) capabilities. 

 

Butch  

Originally Posted by up148:

Bob/Rob,

 

No foul. My PS comments were not aimed at your posts at all. I was just letting everyone know what I found when I measured the wheels as I was told Kohs had some issues in this area in the past and I wanted to clear the air on the Challenger.

 

 

Rob, your comment on brain surgery is so true. This is a real problem on many of these super-sophisticated models we are seeing these days. If it breaks you're in trouble because taking one of these apart is way beyond most modelers (me included) capabilities. 

 

Butch  

When my PB ticket comes through I'm going to contract with Boo Rim to convert a fleet of Kohs GG1's and K4s's to P:48! 

 

I am envious of you UP guys though.  What beautiful big steam. 

 

If only every piece of O scale could be as well detailed as Kohs or GPM. 

There is a problem with increasing complexity.  A friend had a PSC Commonwealth tender truck that was shorting.  At 126 individual pieces per truck, I told him it was beyond my capabilities.

 

he found a guy in Illinois who could do it at six bucks an hour.  I think the guy was able to hold it under six hours.  I would still be looking for the pieces on the floor.

 

I do use PSC Commonwealths, but only the kind they sell in a little kit with six journals and two sideframes per truck at $25/pair.

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