KTM 2-8-4 Berkshire with restricting hydraulic lines on rear truck

Even if you remove them (they are booster engine steam lines) you won't get around 072.  You will have to take a Dremel tool and cut the tail beam and cylinder block,  Sell it, and get a good Lionel Berk.

Interesting. Can you show us some photos when you do get the engine to run on 36" radius curves?

Listen to Bob 2 You will have to grind and butcher the model to get it around 072  circles.  Its not designed for that small of a radius. 

That model is a "brass import" and a very nice sturdy model, but it is not designed for the sharp 3 rail curves.   the parts you talk about are "lost wax" brass castings.    A friend had one and it would go around 48 inch radius (096 in 3-rail talk) if the track was well laid with no kinks etc.    I don't think the driver wheelbase would go around 036 (which is 18 inch radius).   I believe all drivers are flanged.   

You would have to blind the center drivers for that curve and then probably the lead truck would give you a problem too.

As mentioned above, if you want to stick with that curve radius, you might be a lot better off to sell this model and get a 3 rail one from Lionel or MTH.     Weaver also did an NKP Bershire in both 2 and 3 rail that is brass.    It has some mods for 3 rail track but is detailed brass if that is what you want.

My guess is you could sell this one depending on condition pretty easily at an O Scale show in the 6-700 dollar range.   Brass prices have come down with us old times fading away, so it won't command the price it would 10-15 years ago.

Thank you all for your comments!

Really don't want to sell, as it has sentimental value.  All of my stock is postwar 3 rail, and although the scale of this Berkshire is larger, it has awesome detail and it looks weathered, much like my old 3 rail.  I'm going to think about this one a bit.  I've pushed the engine around my 072, and it looks like my only issue in handling the curve is the rear truck.  Going to have to envision what other obstructions there are if these steam lines are removed.  As mentioned above, I don't want to butcher the whole thing.

If I can get this to handle the 072, going to convert my outside loop to run three or two rail.  Eventually going from Lionelville to "Real-ville".

As I mentioned, I have seen on like that go around 48 inch radius which would be O96.     I still think the drivers won't go around 072,

I would listen to BOB2 about this, he's attempted it before.  I believe that last time, he just bolted the mechanism from a Williams 3-rail Mikado under a Lobaugh boiler.

I admit, I don't understand...  Joe Foehrkolb (?sp) converts 3-rail steam locos to 2-rail all day long.  Why is going in the other direction so difficult?  Not only these proposed Berkshire conversions, but IIRC the Atlas 0-6-0 was shunned by the hard core 2-rail crowd for being "a 3-rail loco at heart."  On that loco, all drivers were flanged.  As a switcher, there were no issues of lead- and trailing trucks.

Is it because the driving wheel treads of a native 2-rail loco are prototypically narrower (and presumably its frame is thicker/wider), making it impossible to achieve sufficient lateral motion?  Removing the flanges from the center drivers is an obvious mod (and even some 2-railers do this when they're challenged for space.)  So what makes going from 2-rail to 3-rail so tough??

2 rail lead trucks are usually more to scale , 3 rail are a bit longer for one thing. That helps keeping the wheels off the steam chest , many times the pilot is a little longer as well this allows the lead truck some more room, Blind drivers also help.  When Joe 2 rail's a model he is changing the tires on the drivers and insulating them, then he also either changes or trims and insulates the lead and trail trucks and tender wheels.  The longer boiler the longer lead truck are already there from the manufacture. The longer draw bar also helps on a tighter curve.

I am sure there is quite a bit I missed ,but you should get the idea.  Joe is a real craftsmen and he many times can foresee where other problems may lie in converting a 3 rail model.

 But if you want give Joe a call and he can tell you more

If the Berk has sentimental value, put it in a glass case on the mantel.  Don't butcher it.

Ed

Plus 1.

Yes - we stuck a Williams Mike mechanism under a Lobaugh Berk.  We could do the same for you.  It did not cost much - I got to keep the leftover parts.

I did tell the owner that he was converting a $400 Berk and a $300 Mike into a $100 conglomeration, but that's what he wanted.  I can offer the same deal to you - I get all the spare pieces.  I even have a $300 Mike in stock.

But do what Ed says - get a nice display case!

Here is the Berk.  Those are Lionel 700T tender trucks, and I forget what the coupler is, but you can see it is big.

And here is the display case - you need one of these, and hide the Dremel tool.  It is an AC-4 hiding in there, but I wanted you to see he case.

Hi, 

The first thing I would do is take the rear truck assembly off and see if the drivers really will negotiate 072. I am skeptical with that piece.

If it does run, then you can consider any next step.

Can you consider getting a wider 2 rail loop on the layout first.

One thing I don't understand is, who are we saving these models for in the future? Within the past year one of the locals mentioned that he couldn't get his expensive Northern to negotiate the curves on his layout and he really wanted to run it. I told him to do whatever he needs to do to get it running. Who are you saving this engine for on the wall? So now he has died, and he didn't even get to enjoy running his engine. What good was that?

Don't be afraid to stategically move and remove stuff from the trains so you can run your treasures before you die.

christopher N&W posted:

Don't be afraid to strategically move and remove stuff from the trains so you can run your treasures before you die.

 

Prophetic words, Chris!

Chris  makes a very good point.  Its your model and you should do whatever pleases you.  As much as I feel its to nice to modify, You have a right to do what you like and enjoy it.  

Ed Kelly posted:

If the Berk has sentimental value, put it in a glass case on the mantel.  Don't butcher it.

Ed

This is the CORRECT answer. The minute you start carving it up it becomes something else.......most likely a pile of junk no one will want. There are a lot of static items that people enjoy, paintings, sculptures, on ad infinitum. This thing is a piece of art in it's own way.

Simon

There are a number of people here who just assume he will butcher the job. Have we no faith in our brothers?

I can tell you that many skilled modelers are making judicious adjustments to their models and happily running them, and nobody would know the difference by watching them run on their railroads.

christopher N&W posted:

There are a number of people here who just assume he will butcher the job. Have we no faith in our brothers?

No! If he knew what he was doing, he wouldn't be asking. Easy for you to say do this or do that when you have NOTHING in it. If the thing ends up junk, no skin off your nose.

Simon

Judicious adjustments are by definition good.  But he wants to go around corners - that will require butchering, not judicious adjustment, and even after half the mechanism has been butchered it still will not work well.

while I agree with the idea that it is his model and he can trash it if he wants, he did ask for our advice, and apparently is happy with our contributions.  He will use our input and do as he wants in the end.

Here is what I think is injudicious about this:  it will require removing significant metal from the cast frame, both fore and aft.  It will require removing about half of the lower portion of the cylinder block - easy, because the cylinder is probably a built-up unit.  It will require flange removal.

And it still won't work well, because scale flanges do not match O72 track.  There is a reason for those huge flanges on tinplate trains.

All opinion.