Lance Junction - Updated 10/6/2020

Lance,

Good luck on your layout.  I look forward to seeing your progress.

- Scott

Lance, I like the plan!  Dave and Carl helped me with my plan(s).  Dave did most of the work.  I really appreciate it!  I'll be glad to follow along your layout construction!

Some of the track arrived today and the bridge. I ended up changing a few things on the track plan and I’m sure there will be more. 

Local hobby shop had a consignment of a used Ross double crossover and it was a too good of a deal to pass up so adding that in place of the other cross over switches. 

The wall is coming out this weekend in the room so I can move onto paint and get started on bench work. 

Went to Menards today to get the bench work. Now starting on combining the 2 rooms. Also picked up some new paint for the whole room. 

Good luck with the layout and please keep us updated!

-Greg

I can see you are serious now that you have started knocking out that wall!  I'll look forward to seeing your progress!

Made some more progress today. Going to get it framed and dry wall hung tomorrow. 

Drywall is up. 

Good job, congrats.

I wanted to see how the Blue looked and I’m happy with it. Going to finish the rest of the room tomorrow and it will be hanging lights and bench work time. This is called Ciao Blue if I remember correctly. 

It's looking good, Lance!

Easter Update. Got the room all painted and the new track lights put up on both sides. Finally time to start bench work! 

Wow Lance, You made fast progress!  The room looks great!!!

It looks nice Lance and you sure are fast!

Nice progress!

 Got the bench work started today. I am going to be using my take on a L girder style, with a different approach because it works in my case. Have to go buy some more 1x4s but everythings turning out level and im liking it. Also a quick video to give a walk around and show that the other door is blocked on purpose since i've been asked so many times lol. Thanks for looking!

Looks like you have been busy, Lance!!  I see legs and cross braces every so often.  Are you going to be adding more?  They seem kind of spaced far apart.  What's your plan on the flooring where I see the wall was removed?  Looking good.

Thanks Mark! I have extra carpet from when the house was re done that matches so working on filling those spots in. A few more legs will be added I’m just working out how I want the shelving underneath done and added them in for support right now to level everything up and prevent sagging. 

Lance, sounds like a good plan on both questions!!!

Small update tonight, test fitting the 1 bys. Had to make a trip to Menards for a few more pieces of lumber and a few other things. Few adjustments yet and I’m going to mark all of them once I’m happy with the level before I take them out to run wire holes thru. Don’t mind the horrible spacing, that’s not where they are going exactly haha. Think I’m going to run a string end to end to square the fronts of them up. I’ve been moving things around etc. That’s all for today’s update. Thanks! 

Looks good Lance, real progress.

Not much to update, should get the bench work finished up this weekend. I got my new “smart” dimmer switches installed for both sides of the room. Couldn’t find a light plate I could use for my situation with a 2 gang box so I 3D printed them and like how it turned out. Going to sand it some and paint it. Hopefully have more pictures for you all this weekend.

Also worked with Dave some more and tweaked the layout plan some and got it to where I like it. Now it will have all 072 on the lower level both inside and outside loops and the second picture shows a potential elevated loop for future expansion. Still playing with some things on the elevated track so that’s a work in progress. Also added a siding on the inside line and added where the Dual Engine shop will be. 

Thanks! 

Works great Lance.

Lancer:

Great idea to add an upper level! Consider making it a passenger train loop with an automatic stop-and-go station at the midpoint -- well suited for a commuter line with Budd diesel commuter cars or a unique train like the MTH Aerotrain - the Rock Island version of which ran a route from Joliet to Chicago and return.

The loops at each end of the elevated route could be designated as a suburban zone on the left and "downtown" on the right.  Or ... allocate one zone as a farm/ranch and the other as an industrial district. There are lots of available structures that would be appropriate to these zones.

Carry on, valiantly ...

Mike Mottler    LCCA 12394
mottlerm@gmail.com

Thanks Mark and Mike! I’ve actually thought about a passenger line up there! Great suggestion thanks  

Not a layout update, but I had to break this out of the box because I have been hunting for one for awhile and finally found one. This is one of the dealer engines they made for dealers. 

Should look really nice running at night.

Late night as it’s 4:30 in the morning but made lots of progress!

Great work....looking forward to pics of your progress!

Peter

4:30, that’s dedication. It’s really taking shape and looks really good.

That is great progress, Lance!    I'll look forward to seeing what comes next!

Lance,

You are moving super fast with, what seems, to be a very well planned out plan with neat work.  It's wonderful watching your progress. I thought I was the only one up working on train stuff that early/late...guess not.

Keep it coming!

Dave

Nice job Lance. You’re executing a well thought out plan.

Andy

Todays update brings new LED lighting and went and picked up some Homasote. Starting to piece it together. I used the recommended Bosch knife blade in the jigsaw and it cut it like butter with very very minimal dust. I highly recommend getting some! They were clearanced at my Menards so I got the 3 pack for $7. 

The lighting looks great Lance!!  I was looking for the Bosch knife blade at both Lowes and Home Depot last week, and neither had them.  What were they thinking!!    At Lowes, the toilet part I bought had all Spanish writing on the outside container.  The checkout lady had trouble scanning it and said it shouldn't have been delivered to the Butler, Penna store.  They had instructions in Spanish on the front page and English on the back page.  I'll need to look online tomorrow.  Too bad a Menards isn't close by.

If you need a blade Mark I could mail one over your way. I used one for all these cuts and probably will just get the other out. Let me know!

Lance, Thank you very much!!  I will look online first and see what I find.  I'll let you know!  Thank you again.  I always say we have such nice folks on this Forum!!

Quick update video, almost time to get some track down! Thanks! 

Lance, That's a great looking table top in a nice sized room!!!

Thanks Mark! Hoping the homasote for the price is worth it in the end haha! 

I think the Homasote is worth it.  I'm cutting it out so it is just under track, but my track density isn't what yours is.  With your layout plan, you might as well just cover the whole top with it.  It also depends on how you plan to scenic the layout.  Sometimes it is best to cover the whole top depending on your scenery approach.

Excellent lighting Lance. I used Homasote all around, and it is worth it. And it's fairly inexpensive. The layout and room are really looking great.

Andy

Test fitting the lift bridge today. Hoping to start getting some track laid here soon. 

Looking good, Lance.

The lift up bridge looks great!

 If the barn door type hinge for the bridge proves too wobbly, don't "give up". Just go to a common "piano hinge" (cut to length was a hack saw, etc)  The width usually hold things straighter through its entire travel with zero play. Available "everywhere" from Ace to Menard's.

I've used them on large 6'x4' 1/2" & 3/4" wood cabinet doors used daily, leaned on, hung on, and otherwise abused.  They are much stronger than they look, and hold the edges very well too, despite the tiny screws (drill extra screw holes and/or use longer screws if you really want to; but it's likely overkíll )

@Adriatic posted:

 If the barn door type hinge for the bridge proves too wobbly, don't "give up". Just go to a common "piano hinge" (cut to length was a hack saw, etc)  The width usually hold things straighter through its entire travel with zero play. Available "everywhere" from Ace to Menard's.

I've used them on large 6'x4' 1/2" & 3/4" wood cabinet doors used daily, leaned on, hung on, and otherwise abused.  They are much stronger than they look, and hold the edges very well too, despite the tiny screws (drill extra screw holes and/or use longer screws if you really want to; but it's likely overkíll )

I was going to do that, but I read somewhere you want the hinge point higher than the track so it doesn’t bind? It’s not too bad after I get it down in the groove when laying flat but it does still pivot just slightly. I thought I had the current one high enough but with 2 pieces of test track it still binds slightly. 

Mark and Dave thanks! 

@Lancer posted:

Test fitting the lift bridge today. Hoping to start getting some track laid here soon. 

Hard to tell for sure from the pictures, but it looks like the hinge will bind after track has been laid on the table.  As mentioned in an earlier post, you do need to design something so that the hinge pivot point is above the rails.  Alternative is to build it as a lift-out. 

I’ll be facing the same issue, but my two tracks are 6 inches apart in elevation.  I was planning two bridges, whether pivoting up like yours or lift out.  That’s down the road for me 

I forgot about that; ours became a drop down after some finger and head injuries 🤕. (it was like a 3½-4x4' lift)

Lance, if you ever figure out how to get the track clearance at the hinge end please post some photos. On my three movable bridges, I have found I needed to have the ability to fine tune the joint areas due to wood movement and use of the mechanism. I get side to side movement and up and down movement - not a lot - but enough for an audible bump especially in a height difference. I use a combination of shims and flat head wood screws to be able to make adjustments at the joint. I found permanently mounting the track to the removable section and having an overhang so the track joint and base joint do not overlap solved a bunch of issues. Duck unders got old really quick.    

@ScoutingDad posted:

Lance, if you ever figure out how to get the track clearance at the hinge end please post some photos. On my three movable bridges, I have found I needed to have the ability to fine tune the joint areas due to wood movement and use of the mechanism. I get side to side movement and up and down movement - not a lot - but enough for an audible bump especially in a height difference. I use a combination of shims and flat head wood screws to be able to make adjustments at the joint. I found permanently mounting the track to the removable section and having an overhang so the track joint and base joint do not overlap solved a bunch of issues. Duck unders got old really quick.    

I ended up going with a lift out. There were a few things I wanted and the lift out better suited me. I know lots of folks say the “hinge point” has to be above your rails or higher per say to make it not bind. 

I also didn’t want to have a connection I had to manually unhook so I’ve got creative with dowels and my 3D printer and have been working on a disconnect I think will work great. It’s not wired up in the photo yet but it makes the connection snug yet still can lift out with minimum effort.  Put in some micro switches on each side aswell to kill the oncoming track power in case the bridge is not in place. 

Last but not least, here is the updated track plan as the table sits. I ended up wanting a town so I changed a few things around thus had to change the bridge design slightly.

Lance, The lift out looks good.  Will you provide a place to sit it down, or just hold it until you are through and put it back in place?  I'm contemplating the liftout may be better for the me, the carpentry challenged modeler. 

Thanks Mark, I have room under the table over in that area I may build a small shelf to sit it on when not in place. 

Tonight’s update. Waiting on some switches to show up later this week so doing what I can while waiting on them. I finally got the bridge how I like it and started on some power routing. I even had some help from my Local Hobby Shop owner for a bit today which helped out tremendously for an extra set of hands. 

Lance, The track you have done so far looks great!  The bridge over the entryway looks good, and should be sturdy for moving back and forth.

Wow!  A hobby shop house call!!!  That's great!  Reminds me of the doctor making house calls when I was little.  Yes, I can remember that!  

Got some more track down. The outside loop is finished mostly besides a siding. My switches showed up today so only ones I am missing are the yard switches. Working on the inner loop currently. My wire shows up tomorrow so I will be able to start putting in some wire drops here soon. There will be a 1/2 inch or so lip from a 1x5 or 6 eventually so don’t be too concerned about the one siding that is near the edge. 

I forget who mentioned it but the small cut off saw from Harbor Freight has worked awesome with cutting track. Really beats a dremel and I would recommend it to anyone looking at making cuts. With a coupon I think I walked out the door minus the blades for $35 for the saw. It is a bit loud but well worth it! 

Lance, The layout is looking better and better all the time.  I should have bought one of those saws.

It’s really coming along nicely, always fun when a vision takes shape.

I was finally able to get some train room time this past weekend. Finished up the bridge wiring today and happy to say I have a fully functioning outside loop. The test engine is the NYC locomotive I got with my first Lionel set when I was 4 and have hung on to it ever since. Want to say that’s what got me into trains in the beginning lol. Here’s a quick video of the loop around. Going to be working on getting the yard laid and wiring up the switches and inside loop. Also working on getting the transformer stand with the DCS system setup. Thanks! 

Looking might fine.

That’s a nice run, Lance!!

Yessir! Trains runnin'!

Sound level is acceptable...

Got the DCS and z4000 hooked up this evening so had to break out a few of the fun toys and run them around. I know scenery and skirting will eventually help but not sure if I did something wrong with the homasote or what but it’s still a bit noisy in the room. It’s acceptable but something I may look more in to. 

I noticed too some of my Menards cars aren’t liking the Ross Switches. A few of them throw sparks going over a few switches but none of the Lionel nor MTH cars have any problems. 

Some folks add cord, foam or rubber roadbed. Hard to tell how noisy it is on the video given the engine sounds.

Lance,  Layout's looking really good. Liked the videos. You must be a steel guy too. Love that bridge and that 4 way X over.  I have the same debate going on - lift out or tilt up.  Keep us posted on how ur lift out design functions for you and am also curious how the 4way runs once ur running over it. I know you've prob been asked this before but what brand / type of lighting are u using:  lithonia, juno, Hbay???;;  GU10, Led, Halogen, ???  I'm about to purchase track lighting for our train room and want it to be sufficiently bright as well have a good turndown on dimming.      

@DoubleDAZ posted:

Some folks add cord, foam or rubber roadbed. Hard to tell how noisy it is on the video given the engine sounds.

@TomSuperO posted:

Lance,  Layout's looking really good. Liked the videos. You must be a steel guy too. Love that bridge and that 4 way X over.  I have the same debate going on - lift out or tilt up.  Keep us posted on how ur lift out design functions for you and am also curious how the 4way runs once ur running over it. I know you've prob been asked this before but what brand / type of lighting are u using:  lithonia, juno, Hbay???;;  GU10, Led, Halogen, ???  I'm about to purchase track lighting for our train room and want it to be sufficiently bright as well have a good turndown on dimming.      

Dave- was thinking I may run cork now. Not sure yet. 

Tom- Thanks for the kind words! Yeah I’ve been rough drawing up an idea for a blast furnace/ steel mill area. I will post some more pictures when I get some of the lift out design. I am still tweaking a few of the tracks on it. I actually 3D printed a piece so no wires have to be disconnected when removing. The lights are whatever was clearanced from Menards haha. The GU10 bulbs that came with them put off too much heat and were a too warm of a color so I switched to dimmable LED equivalents in a cool white color. I’ll attach what bulbs I used down below. The dim function works great on them and I ended up getting some smart dimmer switches off Amazon so I can control them via my phone or Alexa.

Lance,

I don't recall the layers on the former layout. That was quiet, if I remember correctly.

The quiet formula is 3/4" ply ( 7 ply) , Midwest cork and Ross, GG or Atlas track.

You will get a noticeable improvement slipping some Midwest cork under the track.

Also, check the wheel diameter and if the axles or uncoupler boxes are hitting the center rail on the switches to spark.

Lance, I agree with Carl on the use of Midwest cork.  I've used it since my HO days.  In fact, I bought another box along with 3 Ross switches for my build on Wednesday at my LHS, CT McCormick Hardware in nearby Zelienople, Pennsylvania.  I had another good chat with Jeff McCormick who now in his 50s has carried on his father's tradition selling O gauge trains in abundance at his full service hardware store.

Thanks Carl and Mark. I’m running to my LHS today to get a box of cork and experiment. If I remember I used 3/4 ply and cork on the last layout. It was much quieter. This time is 1/2 inch topped with homasote. Funny you mention that Mark, I actually got all my switches from Jeff. Very nice guy!

That sounds great, Lance.  Did you order over the phone, or do you live close enough to stop in Jeff's store?

Nope I’m over in Indiana so ordered over email! Wish I lived close enough to go into the store and check it out tho. 

I used to go past his store every couple weeks visiting my aunt in a personal care/nursing home a few blocks away.  Wednesday was the first I had been by since she passed on in March.  I have ordered online, called, emailed, and visited the store.  Any way you do it, Jeff is right on top of it!!

Lance,

Let the good times roll(pun intended). I know it feels good to finally run trains. The NYC ran great and easily went through the crossover. I envy you guys who actually have your childhood trains. I broke all of mines within a week or two of having them. I have purchased a few of those sets as an adult and will eventually run for nostalgic reasons. Anywho, looking forward to more progress. 

Mark, your story about the hardware store reminds me of when I was a child. I went into a hardware store with a friend of the family and to my surprise there was an entire section of trains. I was in a state of shock. I think that store had more trains than both local hobby shops. I eventually got one of the Kline sets for Christmas and yup you guessed it, it was broken within weeks. I honestly can't remember what I did to them.  If I only had someone around that could've shown me how to take care of them. Grandma just bought them but that was extent of nurturing the obvious interest of mines. Fun times!

Dave

Lance!

I just found your post and I love what you are doing.

I myself have just gotten back into the hobby after 9 years, several job transfers and multiple moves.

I now have room for my trains!

Can you tell me why you have laid hemostat on your bench work? Is it just for sound absorption? Are there other reasons for when it is time for landscaping?

I look forward to hearing your thoughts, as well as your progression in your train room.

Richard

@1Irishrover posted:

Lance!

I just found your post and I love what you are doing.

I myself have just gotten back into the hobby after 9 years, several job transfers and multiple moves.

I now have room for my trains!

Can you tell me why you have laid hemostat on your bench work? Is it just for sound absorption? Are there other reasons for when it is time for landscaping?

I look forward to hearing your thoughts, as well as your progression in your train room.

Richard

Homasote has been used quite a bit thru the years of model railroading and yes for sound absorption. So far I am pretty happy with the decision to use it. Thanks for the kind words and good luck on your adventure! 

Lance- the layout is coming together nicely. I didn't notice the noise on the video. It may quiet down as you build scenery. The room is very empty too which amplifies the noise.

Did you fasten the track through the homosote into the plywood? If so, the track noise will transfer through the screws.

The Menards cars have had issues with the gauge on the wheel sets recently, especially the box cars. Also check the air tank assembly on the bottom, I had to modify one or two to get enough clearance on some switches.

Keep up the good work.

Bob

Lance,  Thanks for the information on the LED bulbs.  Interesting thing about the color.  We're going to have 3 penninsulas and i'm planning on putting a track over each penninsula with 3 to 4 light heads per track and was concerned with having enough light and throwing off too much heat. We are also considering installing a ceiling fan to help with engine smoke, room air movement, heat dissipation, etc.   We talked about a small exhaust fan but can't easily install due to solid concrete foundation walls & brick exterior.  Closest Menards around here 1.5 hrs away (Bought a flat car there w the black hawk on it.)   The homosote:  We've always used homosote (1/2"), however on our test layout (in Georgia) my son has been experimenting with how we anchor down the track.  I'll be talking with him this weekend, but i believe he's only using 1 screw per sec of track that goes all the way into the plywood. The others 1-3 screws just go into the homosote, so we're running trains to see if these stay secure.  This is due to the forum comments about sound transfer through the screws.  (Note: we are using SuperO track). I'll get back to you with specifics.  Oh, we are installing a drop ceiling in the train room - with 2x2 panels that are rated excellent sound deadening / absorbtion per armstrong. #928 panels i believe. 

Weirton Steel - '73-'04 Oper supv - Hot Mill Furnaces 

Mark, Lance,  ok you guys have me curious now.  CT Mccormick hardware.  Zelienople bout 1.5 hrs from here.  I'm gonna have to go ck it out.   Back in the day, our local hardware store (now a true value store) carried all the trains during the holidays.  

@TomSuperO posted:

Mark, Lance,  ok you guys have me curious now.  CT Mccormick hardware.  Zelienople bout 1.5 hrs from here.  I'm gonna have to go ck it out.   Back in the day, our local hardware store (now a true value store) carried all the trains during the holidays.  

If you're making a road trip anyway, don't forget Mercer and New Castle.

What's in Mercer and New Castle?

@TomSuperO posted:

What's in Mercer and New Castle?

Mercer Junction Train Shop (Dave Minarik) - great for modern stuff, and New Castle has Lou Polumbo's shop - great for postwar and current Lionel.

I've been to both shops.  They are both great!  Dave Minarik has a great layout right in his store year round.  Lou has a wonderful layout open during the Christmas season in the next room beside his Underground Railroad shop

Got some time to finally get back into the train room today. Not a lot to update on other than finally got the inside loop wired up. Onto the next task!

Lance, Not a lot to update?!  Getting another loop of track wired is huge!!!  Everything looks great!

Thanks Mark! I meant that in a sense as only one thing has been done haha. I was taking a small break from the layout so I didn’t burn myself out plus work has been hectic lately so been working some long days. I’m hoping to start laying the yard area next and that should finish up track work for now until I decide to look into the elevated line. One thing I don’t regret is the table height. I thought it was a bit high when I first had the bench work done but after being under it and can fully sit up with plenty of head clearance that’s made a big difference. 

Lancer:

No wonder your progress is so rapid -- your day/night cycles are all mixed up.  Daytime work on the layout is based on perspiration; nighttime work (after midnight) leads to inspiration. Carry on, regardless of the clock!

Mike Mottler    Another Certified Night Owl
LCCA 12394

October update, just made a quick video update. Not too much, but thought it was worth a share

https://youtu.be/9lkKt1ok5M8

Lance, Thank you for posting the video.  The J 611 looks great!  It sounds like you have a lot planned when you get time to do it.

Awesome progress Lance! Wish I could dedicate the time and resources to my own layout. I subscribed to your youtube channel.

I might have missed it in the thread but what height did you settle on for the layout?

Thanks Bill! I ended up around 54" for the height I believe. Im pretty tall and its just me so that's what I went with.

Good deal! I went with 48"

Hey Lance,

I've enjoyed seeing the progress on this layout.  Thank you for sharing.