Latest Lionel Big Boy “💥BOOM💥 “

Looking forward to the video of your first run!

Nice, I ordered one also.

Nice! How does the "Big Boy" graphic look on the smokebox?

Assuming the "white device" is the radio antenna?

Jon

The Big Boy graphic looks great. The fantasy gray version of the locomotive is very nice. (Mine arrived broken) As for the first run edition. Mine arrived looking as if a toddler had rattle canned it. Not too impressed with Lionel's quality control. (Will also add, each and every one of the Bush funeral cars received at the same time all exhibited broken parts).

N&W 1218 - Just for clarity, what's the item number of your Big Boy?  Thanks.

@vash44 posted:

The Big Boy graphic looks great. The fantasy gray version of the locomotive is very nice. (Mine arrived broken) As for the first run edition. Mine arrived looking as if a toddler had rattle canned it. Not too impressed with Lionel's quality control. (Will also add, each and every one of the Bush funeral cars received at the same time all exhibited broken parts).

 

I'm convinced after helping at my LHS on Saturdays, 95% of Lionel's issues with broken parts are not QC but packaging.  The boxes are flimsier, internal packing isn't always adequate, and why most are not a top bottom cradle rather than trying to pull a locomotive out and re packaging it from the side is beyond me.  You fix the packaging and you fix a lot of their issues.  From the looks of yours, some of that is definitely pre-packaging problems.

@PH1975 posted:

N&W 1218 - Just for clarity, what's the item number of your Big Boy?  Thanks.

Looking up the "Excursion Version" Big Boy at Mr. Muffin's, it comes up 2031261

Since that is the latest "oil burning" version of #4014, wonder why Lionel left those 2 big red "ash pan door" handles on?

So Vash, what are you thoughts on your engine? I know if I received something like that I would probably do the repairs myself assuming the parts were still in the box, but the paint, no way. The only fix for that is a complete strip and repaint. No excuse for that in this day and age.

Pete

@Norton posted:

So Vash, what are you thoughts on your engine? I know if I received something like that I would probably do the repairs myself assuming the parts were still in the box, but the paint, no way. The only fix for that is a complete strip and repaint. No excuse for that in this day and age.

Pete

Weathering?

@Norton posted:

So Vash, what are you thoughts on your engine? I know if I received something like that I would probably do the repairs myself assuming the parts were still in the box, but the paint, no way. The only fix for that is a complete strip and repaint. No excuse for that in this day and age.

Pete

My thoughts are the first run edition paint quality is very poor for an engine that requires a strong monetary investment. Not even sure I want a replacement for the exact model. The other 4014 would be a strong contender. Tender was sloppy compared to my VL challenger tenders. Had too much adhesive around the decals leaving dullness around those areas. Other than that, good details on the engine and the platform has strong potential. 

As for the 4012, if the front had simply fallen off, I would have replaced the parts. The brackets holding it in place bent and twisted. Wasn't going to risk breaking them and finding out replacement parts were not available. Had a few handrails that were broken too. Tender was perfect and felt like a waste having to send it back. Not sure how many people may be after the fantasy version, but it paired very nicely with the 3977 VL Challenger paint.

@Hot Water posted:

Since that is the latest "oil burning" version of #4014, wonder why Lionel left those 2 big red "ash pan door" handles on?

Probably because it was cheaper to make them like that instead of getting rid of them. Also, if that was the case, why is the dynamo by the ashpan when the prototype has it on top of the boiler? 

@PH1975 posted:

N&W 1218 - Just for clarity, what's the item number of your Big Boy?  Thanks.

First Run Version #2031700

@Trainmaster04 posted:

Probably because it was cheaper to make them like that instead of getting rid of them. Also, if that was the case, why is the dynamo by the ashpan when the prototype has it on top of the boiler? 

How is it cheaper to make something by not leaving it off?

Also looks like that there oil burning locomotive has the ash pan...

Rusty

@Rusty Traque posted:

How is it cheaper to make something by not leaving it off?

Also looks like that there oil burning locomotive has the ash pan...

Rusty

Change the die versus do nothing 

@cjack posted:

Change the die versus do nothing 

Exactly. Looking back, Lionel has already changed the die for the pilot so they already spent some extra money on this product. Also, if Lionel did not put them on the locomotive there would be two screw holes. Now, if someone wanted to take them off then they could just unscrew the knobs but there will be two holes. In other words, it would be cheaper to do nothing because they do not have to spend more money to make a difference.

any photos of the entire engine and tender

Yes Please post pics of the greyhound and the overall photo of the 1st run version!

That is a beautiful looking engine.  I am really sorry to hear that they are arriving with pieces broken off.  That's a shame.

John

I unpacked a NIB Vision Line Big Boy and due to poor packing the boiler door hinges were mangled by the door opening in shipment.  However, I was able to buy the parts necessary and make it as good as new.

The biggest packing one so far that had me shaking my head is the VL GG-1.  If there ever is a candidate for a top / bottom styrofoam pack it's that one.  Trying to get that engine into and out of that foam on it's side is extremely difficult and I suspect  more that a few folks did some damage packing and unpacking.

Hopefully Lionel will make good for you.  It just seems packing was better years back.  Unfortunately the more detail we ask for the better chance of these issues.

@jim911 posted:

any photos of the entire engine and tender

Here’s a video I shot this am!

https://youtu.be/XHnr1dCP9Dw

Wow Guys, Thanks for posting!  That 1st run doenst look as bad as I was led to believe...  I would have preferred gloss tender but I get why they did this...  it will say 3985 on the back of the tender?

I love that greyhound.  My dealer is getting both in next week, for me to pick which one i want.  I might have to have both!

@N&W 1218 posted:

Here’s a video I shot this am!

https://youtu.be/XHnr1dCP9Dw

Sounds like it has the dual chuff!

@Super O Bob posted:

 it will say 3985 on the back of the tender?

 

I’ve seen several videos and I don’t see 3985 on the rear of the tender during the First Run or the excursions. I’m pretty sure they used the 3985 tender. Once again Lionel got it right. 

too bad on the tender.  I wonder if they covered over the 3985 lettering in the first run in real life...  I will have to go look...

ok, looks like the 3985 was covered over.  here it just says UP.

 this is probably where Lionel got the idea to dress down the tender.  It looks more satin here, but appeared shiney in the later runs.  Note only 'UP' on the back and '3985' lettering was painted over...  4014 tender is next to this 3985 tender!

I really like the cab floor logo!

@Super O Bob posted:

Wow Guys, Thanks for posting!  That 1st run doenst look as bad as I was led to believe...  I would have preferred gloss tender but I get why they did this...  it will say 3985 on the back of the tender?

 

I love that greyhound.  My dealer is getting both in next week, for me to pick which one i want.  I might have to have both!

The greyhound is very impressive! My favorite of the 2 by far. When I get the new one back I will get pictures of it and the challenger.

Given Lionel is doing both a first run set and and excursion set wouldn't the excursion set have the glossy tender. Otherwise what differentiates the two?

Pete

@Norton posted:

Given Lionel is doing both a first run set and and excursion set wouldn't the excursion set have the glossy tender. Otherwise what differentiates the two?

Pete

Good question Pete. I’d like to see the Excursion Version also. 👍🏻

@Trainmaster04 posted:

Exactly. Looking back, Lionel has already changed the die for the pilot so they already spent some extra money on this product. Also, if Lionel did not put them on the locomotive there would be two screw holes. Now, if someone wanted to take them off then they could just unscrew the knobs but there will be two holes. In other words, it would be cheaper to do nothing because they do not have to spend more money to make a difference.

Like you said, they are add on parts, not part of the die.  It would have been cheaper to not put them on then make them and add them.  And due to how far under the cab they are, you're not going to notice the empty holes.  But being they are tapped hole, they may not even be in the mold and are drilled after the fact.

But this is a beautiful locomotive.  I wish I could have gotten one, but I can't justify the cost at this time in my life.

Which diesel are you going to use to shove the Big Boy around the layout?

After all, that would be prototypical. 

@Rich Melvin posted:

Which diesel are you going to use to shove the Big Boy around the layout?

After all, that would be prototypical. 

LMAO.  Rich keep that up you are going to get banned.

@N&W 1218 posted:

Good question Pete. I’d like to see the Excursion Version also. 👍🏻

excursion version is all in standard satin finish, and no big boy chalk.  I was trying to find out if it comes  with silver painted bearing caps... The greyhound was cataloged with black caps, but came in silver...

So was the run to the Golden Spike considered the first run? I had assumed it had its original tender by then. All the pictures I saw of that train everything including the tender and 844 were in high gloss black.

Pete

@N&W 1218 posted:

Here’s a video I shot this am!

https://youtu.be/XHnr1dCP9Dw

Great video, looks and sounds terrific great smoke too.

JohnB

@Norton posted:

So was the run to the Golden Spike considered the first run?

Yes.

I had assumed it had its original tender by then.

No. They didn't have enough time to rebuild/convert the original tender, thus the tender was taken from 3985 (which would never run again anyway) which had already been rebuilt & converted to oil fuel.

All the pictures I saw of that train everything including the tender and 844 were in high gloss black.

Correct. That's the way the UP likes them.

Pete

Given the price and the number of times these get shipped it’s not a shock they arrive damaged. My UPS, FedEx and USPS treat boxes like footballs and just toss them onto my front porch. Thank god for my security cams as the record everything.

China to a customers clearance to Lionel to the distributors to dealer to us. A minimum of 6 shipping hops before we see them.

I have asked my dealer to double pack my items and I will pay the extra fees.

Just got the GWH Bush funeral train, want going to open it but I guess I have too now.

Better packaging goes a long way.

Packaging may very well be the cause of a number of defects, but I just got one of the new Shiny 4014 Big Boy's in from a customer and the pilot touches the center rail.  I disassembled it and it is the long frame piece that is the issue.  No way to just bend it back into place - have to get a RA and send it back to Lionel.  No way this was test run at the factory!

Interesting to see if anyone else runs in to this issue.

Jim

Checking to see the Excursion version in action.

@John Rowlen posted:

Checking to see the Excursion version in action.

There is one on the first page of this thread. It's a YouTube video with a link and it's not embedded in the post so you may have to look for it.

@Jim Sandman posted:

Packaging may very well be the cause of a number of defects, but I just got one of the new Shiny 4014 Big Boy's in from a customer and the pilot touches the center rail.  I disassembled it and it is the long frame piece that is the issue.  No way to just bend it back into place - have to get a RA and send it back to Lionel.  No way this was test run at the factory!

Interesting to see if anyone else runs in to this issue.

Jim

Wow.  Too many defects for something that costs this much $$$$. 

Looking for video or pictures of 2031261 Excursion without "Big Boy" chalk marks.

I have had that issue with the Engine Tab that holds the connects the tender on my Niagara and Hudson. I used electrical tap to prevent the tab from hitting the 3rd rail. Eventually I will cut it off - shorten it but in the mean time electrical tape works.

Interestingly enough, it does not always happen but I found that after watching it the grade and number of cars plays a role. in addition, strange, but it happens, the rail manufactures also plays a role. Bottom, line, that should not happen - it simply 1/8 too long.

I have the excursion version 4014 (2031261). The trailing trucks and tender are from the challenger with satin finish and silver caps. It is exactly the same as the First run without the chalk lettering and glossy shell. I added the chalk decal. If you look at the Lionel catalog the first run edition should be the only model with the challenger trucks and tender. It looks like Lionel made a production change or the catalog was incorrect. I haven't run it yet to see if everything is OK. The paint is perfect.

Is the decal included with the excursion version?

The decal was not included, I ordered on line from Circus City Decals. I purchased a full set. for $11.99.

@Mfradin posted:

The decal was not included, I ordered on line from Circus City Decals. I purchased a full set. for $11.99.

Thank you for the information. I ordered the decals for mine. 

@MDuppy posted:

Thank you for the information. I ordered the decals for mine. 

Ditto! Thank you for sharing! 

Circus City offers good quality decals. I used this set to reletter my 844. It has all the decals you need for the steam power used on the 4014 first run, both 4014 and 844.

Pete

@John Rowlen posted:

Looking for video or pictures of 2031261 Excursion without "Big Boy" chalk marks.

me too...  please post

Here are some quick pictures.

Michael, it’ s gorgeous!—Keith Levine

Wow thanks for posting!  My dealer cant get any, so looks like I am keeping my 1st run edition.  I pick it up today...

I actually ordered the first run edition and received this. the dealer was one of the larger forum sponsors. After opening and realizing it is the same except for the glossy finish, I was ok with it.

Here’s some more shots of the excursion version, 2031261.  Seem to run just fine on the rollers.  All functions are working, smokes like a champ.  FWIW, it was packed in the carton standing up, not on the side, as was the tender.  

Great pics and video.  Is the smoke synced to the chuffing?  Doesn’t look like it from the video.

Any sightings of 4005?

@superwarp1 posted:

Great pics and video.  Is the smoke synced to the chuffing?  Doesn’t look like it from the video.

Yes the smoke is synced.  The wheel slip demo doesn’t show it well as it increases speed quickly.

I just picked up mine...  Here is a compare with the Vision Line 4014...

The Satin Gloss on the 1st run tender looks more than the Vision Hudson in the background.

Super O Bob

now with (6) Legacy Big Boys on the Roster! 

4006 Vision, 4012 Greyhound, 4014 Vision, 4014 1st Run, 4018 Vision, 4024 JLC

@Rich Melvin posted:

Which diesel are you going to use to shove the Big Boy around the layout?

After all, that would be prototypical. 

I am pushing my BigBoy with a ES44AC. 😂 have to geek it real.

@PSU1980 posted:

1.  My UPS, FedEx and USPS treat boxes like footballs and just toss them onto my front porch. Thank god for my security cams as the record everything.

2.  I have asked my dealer to double pack my items and I will pay the extra fees.

3.  Better packaging goes a long way.

1. Wow, that sucks for you. Has having the "security cams" helped you file any claims? I just happened to be home yesterday, looked up and saw the Fed Ex person drop off something; she came up the steps to the front door, laid the package down, rang the doorbell (which completely freaked out my dogs!  , and that was that...no "footballing" involved.  

2. Good idea.

3. Very true...although I will say (and this has nothing to do with "factory packaging"), I've had a couple items bought through eBay where the seller, in their over zealous attempt to minimize shipping damage, has wrapped the item so tightly as to cause (usually minor) damage even before it gets boxed up!   

Mark in Oregon

The replacement greyhound is spot on! No issues or broken parts. Picture of it and the tender together.

So I’m curious as to the exact function of this “stack cover” on the 4014 Excursion version(2031261).  I’m sure all versions came with this piece.  But was it used frequently or even necessary?  BTW, smoke is set on “low”.  All this is assuming I have it installed correctly, had to bend the pins slightly to make it seat flush.  Thx in advance for the help.

@TedW posted:

So I’m curious as to the exact function of this “stack cover” on the 4014 Excursion version(2031261).  I’m sure all versions came with this piece.  But was it used frequently or even necessary?  BTW, smoke is set on “low”.  All this is assuming I have it installed correctly, had to bend the pins slightly to make it seat flush.  Thx in advance for the help.

 

 

That is the "Exhaust Deflector" for deflecting the exhaust rearward when inside a tunnel on an ascending grade. It is split in 2 halves, which fold down on either side of the twin exhaust stack arrangement. Thus, the force of the exhaust is NOT blasting vertically against the inside of the tunnel lining (roof). Both the UP 3900 class (Challengers) and 4000 class locomotives were equipped with those deflectors, where were closed & opened by air cylinders, manually operated by the Engineer when so required.

Interesting HW.  Thanks again. Did the deflector store recessed into the “tub” surrounding the stacks?  Before asking, I searched vintage UP Big Boy photos to check if I could find that part, and with many to view didn’t see the deflector deployed or the “halves” hanging off the side.

@TedW posted:

Interesting HW.  Thanks again. Did the deflector store recessed into the “tub” surrounding the stacks?

Yes.

 Before asking, I searched vintage UP Big Boy photos to check if I could find that part, and with many to view didn’t see the deflector deployed or the “halves” hanging off the side.

Since the halves fold down (retract) downward beside the exhaust stack, but hidden within the surrounding sheet metal "tub",  they are thus pretty difficult to see when retracted.

Just going over everything I was VEREY happy that there was no locomotive damage especially since the box had a big hole punched in from the shipping carton all the way to the styrofoam. (Need to start telling my dealer to double box no matter what). Anyway happen to notice that the builders plate has a incorrect serial number for 4014 or at least different from the VL issue. You know how small this is so the pictures aren’t great but the “first run” has a serial of “69587” and the Vision version has “69585” witch from what I can tell is the correct ALCO serial. Just thought it was interesting it’s so small no big deal 😜

pretty unrelated but i must ask 

where do you get rollers like these from? would be super nice to test engines on.

@acrking76 posted:

pretty unrelated but i must ask 

where do you get rollers like these from? would be super nice to test engines on.

Micromark

Another thing I noticed is this time we actually got kinematic drawbar. Only on the tender side but still nice. 

My new First Edition Big Boy looks, runs, and sounds great except smoke output is weak. The owner’s manual says, “DO NOT EXCEED 20 DROPS per stack”. Since the Big Boy has 2 stack holes, does that mean that the initial prime of the smoke units should be a TOTAL OF 40 DROPS OF SMOKE FLUID? I’m reluctant to add more than 20 drops total, for fear of overfilling the smoke units. Anyone know how many drops of smoke fluid to start the new Legacy Big Boys?

@Peter C I reread the manual like 5 times to make sure I understood correctly. They don’t say it but while it has “2” smoke units they are 1 for the main stack and 1 for the whistle. This is another dual smoke unit. So filling the stack fills the whistle but the whistle has its own element. The dual stacks funnel down to the same spot. Hope this clears that up

I ordered two versions - the "First Run Edition" and the "Greyhound."  

They are spectacular - here are two close up run by shots of each - hope you all enjoy! 

First Run Edition #4014

Greyhound Edition #4012

From a QC perspective - they arrived in excellent shape with the exception of the following issues/items to note:

• 4014
  • Front bell was missing from the boiler, only to be found under the tender in the box - simple fix and I re-attached
  • The tender itself appears to be a VL Challenger style tender - it is different in weight relative to the BB tender as well as some few small aesthetics in addition to the location of the master volume knob 
    • For some reason, the master volume was turned all the way down upon arrival (which I have since turned back-up to max volume )- you can actually hear the difference in the two in my videos above
• 4012
  • Firebox Glow does not work - not a deal-breaker for me - is what it is 
  • Small broken hand rail on the front pilot - used a little gorilla glue and has been fixed

I hope everyone is staying safe and healthy during these times. 

Best,

Michael 

How much firebox glow should there be from an oil burning steam engine?

@John Rowlen posted:

How much firebox glow should there be from an oil burning steam engine?

Lol. I know we had this discussion over the oil burning challengers last year😂. In this case doesn’t look like Lionel changed the tooling (shocker) and the two big fire box doors are still in these with the firebox flicker. No ash pan glow that I’ve noticed but there’s still ash pans 😂

@superwarp1 posted:

LMAO.  Rich keep that up you are going to get banned.

Yep...he has been a problem child for a while now.  Looks like it is time to get that heavy handed moderator on to him!

Does anyone know if the Legacy Big Boy 4005 2031262 is gloss or satin finished?

Kevin, Wow, nice locomotive and congratulations on the neat video. I have a good friend that just received his Glossy First fun Big Boy last week. His curves are 072 and this monster negotiates the curves well. I didn’t order one this time because I have the VL version, but it’s a super nice Locomotive. Here’s a few pictures of my friends new purchase. Lionel made a winner. Happy Railroading Everyone 

N&W, is there an issue with the clearance between the cow catcher and the middle rail? 

Funny that should come up. Someone at our club got a new 4-8-4 Frisco legacy engine and it’s cow catcher would hit the middle rail and n curves. O-99 at that. Ended up pulling up on it a little not much force required but got it to clear

Decal or not to Decal, that is the question?

My .02 cents is to decal. 

What decal and where?

RickM46

So far no issues with the center rail and the cow catcher. 

There are decals sets out there. 
Search:

Union Pacific "Big Boy" Chalk Aux Water Tender Decals O Scale 844 3985 4014

on the bay. 

N&W, thanks for the info; my BB 4005 showed up last Thursday; no issues with the middle rail and cow catcher either; better than 1/8 inch clearance. 

Update with help from Rich: strike cow catcher and substitute pilot .

@N&W 1218 posted:

RickM46

So far no issues with the center rail and the cow catcher....

It’s not a “cow catcher.” It is called a “pilot” on any steam locomotive built since about 1880.

@Allegheny posted:

Looking forward to the video of your first run!

why do so many of you think the allegheny was the most powerful steam engine..  Read huddlestones book on them and see what a failure they were.  7000 hp was the boiler hp but the engine did not develop that power and lima lost its *** in the lawsuit c&o sued them for.  read it for yourself.

@STEAM PUNK posted:

why do so many of you think the allegheny was the most powerful steam engine..  Read huddlestones book on them and see what a failure they were.

They were definitely NOT a "failure"! Granted the C&O may not have utilized them properly, i.e. not high HP fast freight engines, instead of slow speed coal drag engines, but they performed very, VERY well for the C&O in spite of that.

  7000 hp was the boiler hp but the engine did not develop that power and lima lost its *** in the lawsuit c&o sued them for.

The lawsuit was over the weight of the locomotives, and NOT their performance.

  read it for yourself.