Skip to main content

I have been posting the progress on my layout on the "What Did You Do on Your Layout" thread, but I was asked to start a new thread this time.  My son and I have been working on getting my fascias installed.  We left the hardest one to last which was the one around a tunnel.  This tunnel you enter from the left hand side of my curved stone arch bridge.  It is about 12 feet long and has my double-track mainline running through it.  Today we finished putting the top on the tunnel.  Access to the tunnel will be via a lift-out section on the far right side and by the sides in the balance of the tunnel.  Here are several pictures of the almost finished top.

tunnel1tunnel2tunnel3tunnel4tunnel5

Another area we worked on was adding plywood sections to the Illinois side of my Mississippi River valley to shape the bank in preparation for plaster work.  We also had to redo and replace part of the fascia here to show the correct reveal for the river bank.  Here are a few pictures of this area.

riverbank1riverbank2riverbank3

I can't thank my son, Jim, enough for all his hard work the last few days on the layout.  He has made some impossible jobs go smoothly and get done.  Building new control panels is the next major job for the layout and he has begun that process.

Art

Attachments

Images (8)
  • tunnel1
  • tunnel2
  • tunnel3
  • tunnel4
  • tunnel5
  • riverbank1
  • riverbank2
  • riverbank3
Last edited by Chugman
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Chugman posted:

I have been posting the progress on my layout on the "What Did You Do on Your Layout" thread, but I was asked to start a new thread this time.  My son and I have been working on getting my fascias installed.  We left the hardest one to last which was the one around a tunnel.  This tunnel you enter from the left hand side of my curved stone arch bridge.  It is about 12 feet long and has my double-track mainline running through it.  Today we finished putting the top on the tunnel.  Access to the tunnel will be via a lift-out section on the far right side and by the sides in the balance of the tunnel.  Here are several pictures of the almost finished top.

 

I can't thank my son, Jim, enough for all his hard work the last few days on the layout.  He has made some impossible jobs go smoothly and get done.  Building new control panels is the next major job for the layout and he has begun that process.

Art

Art- glad you are starting a new thread too. I have been following your progress on the other page. Keep up the good work. Everything looks great so far.

Bob

rattler21 posted:

Art, Reference photos one and two.  Is there enough room for articulated engines?  If you don't have one you can bet your bottom dollar some one will want to run one on your layout.   John in Lansing, ILL

John, I have a spot inside another long tunnel that does not show in these pictures that will not let me run some articulated engines.  The uprights that hold the upper deck under my towns of Ruthven and Spencer do not have enough clearance.  When a friend brought his new Lionel Visionline Big Boy over the only place we could run it was on the upper branchline.  I feel badly about that, but I have never had any plans to run large articulated engines and only own one small steam engine which hardly ever gets run.  

And I just learned last night that my 21" California Zephyr cars are hitting my new tunnel liner on my freight mainline so I will have to change that.  I haven't been running passenger trains on that line, but I want to be able to.  During future operating sessions I plan to reroute passenger traffic over this section of freight mainline to bypass freight switching at my grain elevator complex that is only accessible from the passenger mainline.

Thanks for all your encouraging comments.

Art

 Looks like the makings of a fantastic layout in a really great setting. At this stage of building you can start to see progress every week as it all comes together. I'm at the point of detailing the layout. I enjoy this aspect of the hobby even though at times it can be tedious. I often times miss the doing the big projects. Looking forward to your future updates.

On our last work day we added a siding to the location of my future flour mill.  One of my operating themes will be the movement of grain and flour cars that will supply my Wonder Bread Bakery.  I will have local grain elevators that will collect the farmers crops, then grain hoppers will take that to the large regional elevator complex and from there it will go to the flour mill.  So, I need receiving tracks for incoming grain cars and outgoing tracks for flour cars.

I had one 072 left-hand switch left and wanted to find a way to use it rather buy a new right-hand switch.  We experimented with many combinations of short pieces of curved track and flex track and finally decided on what you see in the attached pictures.  Oh, I found out that Atlas flex track doesn't flex nearly as well after it has been painted.  Next steps are to build the retaining wall behind the flour mill, add track bumpers, paint the track, and start building my flour mill.

flourmillsidings1flourmillsidings2flourmillsidings3flourmillsidings4

Art

Attachments

Images (4)
  • flourmillsidings1
  • flourmillsidings2
  • flourmillsidings3
  • flourmillsidings4

Art, great looking work you have going on there, I have to agree with above, Great looking yard, looks like enough room to part several cars just waiting to be picked up. Love your updates between you and Elliot, Max and a whole lot of other people here I never run out of things to read and think about!

Mark Boyce posted:

Art,

Thank you for starting your new topic for construction of your layout!  I can see having Jim available to help with some jobs is a lifesaver!  Please tell him he is helping to make a lot of folks out here in Forumland happy by seeing your layout come to life!   Could you post a photo of Jim sometime, so we can put a face with his name?  

Mark - I forgot to respond to your request.  I looked through my "train related" pictures of my son, Jim, and found one I don't think he will mind if I share.  It was taken a few years ago at one of my operating sessions.  Jim is the fellow in the center of the picture with a burgundy shirt on and a baseball cap.  He was operating the Proviso freight yard that day with a smiling crew.

jimandgroup 

Art

 

 

Attachments

Images (1)
  • jimandgroup

Another request that I have been getting frequently was for a copy of my track plan.  My son, Jim, starting entering it into RR software, but I kept making changes to it.  After we completely redone my former Intermodal yard into what I now call my Eola classification yard, he began updating the track plan again.  Then we added a siding at my future flour mill and he had to do another update.

I think that I am finally done with track revisions.  I don't have any more room or switches, so I should be done.  So here are the copies of the track plan.  It is shown three ways:  A complete version with the upper line in red and the lower in black, an upper only version, and a lower only version.  I want to annotate some of the scenery features and yards, but that will come later.

Art

ArtWilliamsCompleteLayoutArtWilliamsLowerLineArtWilliamsUpperLine

Attachments

Images (3)
  • ArtWilliamsCompleteLayout
  • ArtWilliamsLowerLine
  • ArtWilliamsUpperLine
Last edited by Chugman
Chugman posted:

 

Mark - I forgot to respond to your request.  I looked through my "train related" pictures of my son, Jim, and found one I don't think he will mind if I share.  It was taken a few years ago at one of my operating sessions.  Jim is the fellow in the center of the picture with a burgundy shirt on and a baseball cap.  He was operating the Proviso freight yard that day with a smiling crew.

Art 

Art,

Glad to see who is responsible for helping you!  Thank you and thank Jim!

Now take that fascia and paint it black, which will REALLY draw your eye to the scene. 

flourmillsidings1

If you need further convincing, a before and after shot of my latest scenery project:

IMG_0176

IMG_0177

The paint was still a bit wet when I shot the photo. 

As far as I'm concerned, this is one of the best things that can improve the look of a layout with the least amount of effort.  I liked the look so much, I went and finished all my fascia.

On the original part of my layout, I used green.  The thinking back 20 years ago in the model press was to use a color indicative of the area you were modeling, so, if you were doing Santa Fe in the desert, use a sand color.  I am going to redo everything with black.

IMG_3084

Regards,

Jerry

 

Attachments

Images (4)
  • flourmillsidings1
  • IMG_0176
  • IMG_0177
  • IMG_3084

Art,

When I saw your "tunnel" photos previously, it occurred to me that it would be a neat feature and visual "surprise" if you created even a small diorama looking inside the tunnel--such as timber supports, rock wall tunnel facings, minimal lighting, etc. even if the scene was only 1' or so in length and viewed through Plexiglas attached to the fascia.  It'd be more work, of course, but surely a very neat feature.

In any event, it's very enjoyable to read about your progress and, as a dad, to read about your collaboration with your son.

Pingman posted:

Art,

When I saw your "tunnel" photos previously, it occurred to me that it would be a neat feature and visual "surprise" if you created even a small diorama looking inside the tunnel--such as timber supports, rock wall tunnel facings, minimal lighting, etc. even if the scene was only 1' or so in length and viewed through Plexiglas attached to the fascia.  It'd be more work, of course, but surely a very neat feature.

In any event, it's very enjoyable to read about your progress and, as a dad, to read about your collaboration with your son.

That is a good suggestion.  I saw something similar to that on a layout tour on last year's O Scale convention where they did that on a coal mine.  I started adding tunnel walls made of 1/8" foam painted black, but the first one was too close to the track and my 21" California Zephyr cars hit it.  So back to the drawing board.

Art

pennsynut posted:

Art, you may have previously described your operating system (card/waybill type) but I am curious what you use and how complicated it can get.

In the past my "operating sessions" were very casual to say the least.  They were primarily to run unit trains and passenger trains with little or no switching.  Passenger trains were supposed to stop at scheduled stations and etc.  We would run a circus train on the freight mainline for variety and etc.  Running trains through crossovers across another mainline to get to the interchange track to take the train to the upper line would add some excitement and variety.

I am working toward using car cards and way bills in the future.  I have to get individual numbers on all my cars, get my control panels completed so visitors can operate switches, and hopefully finish some of my industries before that can happen.  I changed my Intermodal yard with two tracks and no yard lead to a 4 track classification yard that is double-ended and has a fair sized yard lead.  That gives me two decent sized freight yards and a passenger terminal for operations.  I don't have a lot of industries with sidings, but hopefully enough to keep some people busy for awhile.  I do not plan on using a fast clock at any time in the foreseeable future.  

Art 

Last edited by Chugman

Anyone can see you're having a rockin-good time of it, and to be able to work on that excellent project with your son is a memories-builder you'll have in your heart to cherish forever. I'm happy for you. You're exactly the kind of person who deserves such joy, Art. And the results that we can see are fabulous.

FrankM 

Thanks, FrankM.  I do feel very blessed to have a son that loves trains like I do, lives fairly close, and enjoys helping me with my layout.  The truth is that I have been relying more and more on him as I get older.  He does excellent work and when I want something done right, I tend to want to wait until he is available to help me.  

Art

Chugman posted:
Pingman posted:

Art,

When I saw your "tunnel" photos previously, it occurred to me that it would be a neat feature and visual "surprise" if you created even a small diorama looking inside the tunnel--such as timber supports, rock wall tunnel facings, minimal lighting, etc. even if the scene was only 1' or so in length and viewed through Plexiglas attached to the fascia.  It'd be more work, of course, but surely a very neat feature.

In any event, it's very enjoyable to read about your progress and, as a dad, to read about your collaboration with your son.

That is a good suggestion.  I saw something similar to that on a layout tour on last year's O Scale convention where they did that on a coal mine.  I started adding tunnel walls made of 1/8" foam painted black, but the first one was too close to the track and my 21" California Zephyr cars hit it.  So back to the drawing board.

Art

Hey Art  Do you have any pics of that coal mine or where I could see it?

Art, I'm a huge advocate of black fascia, as it does a couple of things. It tends to disappear and allows your eye to focus on the trains and the layout, and it just makes things POP. You've already gone with black skirting, finish the job with black fascia. It can be a little scary at first. I wouldn't have it any other way on my layout.

This is an interesting photo, because it shows the contrast between the black and the brown of the raw Masonite.

IMG_5988

Even without scenery, you can see that pop. The contrast between the black fascia and the blue sky.

IMG_6182

Attachments

Images (2)
  • IMG_5988
  • IMG_6182

Art,

As Elliot and others have suggested, a black fascia really does wonders. I have doors in the front of my layout (first picture), and these provide access to the hidden world of the underneath. Other than that, I have black curtains, which were very easy to install and also provide easy access to the underneath. Of course, I have a rather unique resource for the curtains, among many other contributions - my wife Judy. 

I ended up adding curtains all around, and this really helped keeping the temptation of those curious eyes (smaller kids) from wondering under the layout.

Fascia - 1 Front IMG_2247Fascia - 2 StrAisle IMG_2239Fascia - 3 TrTbl IMG_2241Fascia - 4 EtVal IMG_2242Fascia - 5 EAisle IMG_2244Fascia - 6 SAisle IMG_2246

Keep us up to date with your progress!

Alex

Attachments

Images (6)
  • Fascia - 1 Front IMG_2247
  • Fascia - 2 StrAisle IMG_2239
  • Fascia - 3 TrTbl IMG_2241
  • Fascia - 4 EtVal IMG_2242
  • Fascia - 5 EAisle IMG_2244
  • Fascia - 6 SAisle IMG_2246
Last edited by Ingeniero No1

I was reading and looking at the black facia pictures yesterday, and I went and bought a gallon of flat black.  Mine were white and besides looking dirty they stood out.  I painted them all black last night, and love how it makes the scenery pop and hides the trestles for the upper level. 

Another example of painting black:

Paint it black

Starting in the mid-1950s, Mercury engines were produced in a rainbow of colors. In fact, Mercury advertised itself as "the most colorful name in outboards" until 1958, when "Stark White" became Mercury's signature engine color. But with the introduction of the 6-cylinder 100hp "Tower of Power," outboards suddenly grew taller and wider. Designers feared the new engine looked out of proportion to the boats it powered, and they sought ways to make it appear smaller.

Here's where a legend begins: One night, the mother of head Mercury engineer Charlie Strang wandered into his office. Charlie explained the engine dilemma to his mother, who offered a practical suggestion: "Well, a large woman always wears a black dressWhy don't you paint the engine black?"

"Just for the heck of it, we painted one black," said Strang, "and the engine looked like it shrank by about 20 percent!"

Over the next several decades, Mercury built a brand in part on its signature "Phantom Black." In just a few weeks, Mercury will offer its Verado engine in two shades of white – hot and cold – in addition to Phantom black.

Regarding black fascia, it depends upon your intent.

If you want the room to be all about the layout, a dark fascia makes a big difference, as Elliot noted (and his train room will certainly be all about the layout). You would need a well-lit layout to get the maximum benefit from this approach.

But I like the look of the portion of Ingeniero No1's layout that has the doors below the layout surface. A layout designed with such a look all the way around would resemble furniture and offers a friendlier atmosphere. Of course, if a whole layout was designed that way, access below the layout would be a problem, unless the fronts were removable.

Last edited by Jim R.

Agreed.  I'm definitely going to have to do the underside of at least part of my layout as open shelves or cabinets, as I must share the space with a downstairs "den" area.  I really like the decorative look of Alex's cabinet doors in the included picture (as well as his drop-down turntable).  There are areas where the black curtain may be a better option. 

Chugman posted:

Jerry - That is an interesting suggestion.  I have already decided to put black skirting below my fascia, but so far have liked the earth colored fascia.  Your layout looks great.

Art

I am ready to install skirting below my fascia. How are or how did you fasten the skirting below the fascia?

Thanks Buzz

GG1 2340 posted:
Chugman posted:

Jerry - That is an interesting suggestion.  I have already decided to put black skirting below my fascia, but so far have liked the earth colored fascia.  Your layout looks great.

Art

I am ready to install skirting below my fascia. How are or how did you fasten the skirting below the fascia?

Thanks Buzz

For our layout, my wife got a bunch of those adjustable spring loaded round curtain rods. She made each skirt with a curtain rod fold at the top of each skirt, put the round rods through the skirt, and then pressed the spring loaded rod between the leg supports. Instant, and easily removable skirts.

Hot Water posted:
GG1 2340 posted:
Chugman posted:

Jerry - That is an interesting suggestion.  I have already decided to put black skirting below my fascia, but so far have liked the earth colored fascia.  Your layout looks great.

Art

I am ready to install skirting below my fascia. How are or how did you fasten the skirting below the fascia?

Thanks Buzz

For our layout, my wife got a bunch of those adjustable spring loaded round curtain rods. She made each skirt with a curtain rod fold at the top of each skirt, put the round rods through the skirt, and then pressed the spring loaded rod between the leg supports. Instant, and easily removable skirts.

Jack - That is pretty much what I plan to do with mine.  No sense trying to over think it like we all sometimes have a tendency to do.

Art

Concerning fascia colors here is my dilemma.  I understand and agree with the black focusing all your attention on the layout, which of course is good, but I am also concerned with the effect on the over all room itself.  I have beige colored carpet, neutral or ecru colored walls, and stained oak woodwork.  I want the fascia to be in harmony with the total room.  Oh, did I mention that I am not a decorator?  I am leaning toward keeping the earth colored fascia with black skirting below it.  That will keep the eyes from the floor area and make a gradual transition from the earth colored fascia to the layout itself.  I have seen green fascia and I like that too, but keep coming back to the earth color so far.

Art  

Chugman:

Love the layout & great to watch its progress.  Any tips on working with Atlas flex track?  I've been told it can be a bit of a pain to work with, but I will need to use it to "fudge" certain areas of the layout I'm planning to build.  I know from playing with it a little that tends to hold its shape vs. spring back to straight.  I assume one should plan well first so you only need to bend once when laying it down?  Thanks.

- Neal

 

Fridge56Vet posted:

Chugman:

Love the layout & great to watch its progress.  Any tips on working with Atlas flex track?  I've been told it can be a bit of a pain to work with, but I will need to use it to "fudge" certain areas of the layout I'm planning to build.  I know from playing with it a little that tends to hold its shape vs. spring back to straight.  I assume one should plan well first so you only need to bend once when laying it down?  Thanks.

- Neal

 

Atlas flex works great, but as you mentioned can be difficult if you are trying to bend too sharp of a curve.  And I learned the hard way that it doesn't flex very well after it has been painted.  I reused a section recently that I had previously sprayed with Camo Brown and it didn't want to bend.  The paint kept it from sliding on the rails as it usually does.  It worked, but it wasn't as easy as usual.  Just anchor it good at one end when you are bending it and screw it down as you go.  You probably will have to cut off one of the rails to properly match up with the next normal piece of track.

Art

When we started laying Atlas flex track for our layout, we very quickly learned to solder 3 or 4 or 5 full sections of it together, then with 5 or 6 men, force the darned stuff into position, glue and screw it down, and hope!!!!! Some many days later, I removed all the screws, and reused them to lay more of the track. Once all the track & turnouts were laid and glued in place, I removed ALL the screws.

While my son, Jim, has been building my new control panels I have been trying to get some scenery work done.  I have been avoiding getting into doing plaster as I haven't done it in a long time.  Well, tonight I just decided it was time to get started.  So, I began by cutting strips of cardboard and then stapling them to the layout in a grid pattern.  I got a fair start before I ran out of time.

Here are a few pictures of the progress.

Art

cribbing1cribbing3cribbing4

 

Attachments

Images (4)
  • cribbing1
  • cribbing2
  • cribbing3
  • cribbing4
Chugman posted:

....  I have beige colored carpet, neutral or ecru colored walls, and stained oak woodwork.  I want the fascia to be in harmony with the total room.  Oh, did I mention that I am not a decorator?  I am leaning toward keeping the earth colored fascia with black skirting below it.  That will keep the eyes from the floor area and make a gradual transition from the earth colored fascia to the layout itself.  I have seen green fascia and I like that too, but keep coming back to the earth color so far.

Art  

Art,

Going with your color scheme, I would suggest going with a light brown or tan curtain instead of black.  This should carry the earth color fascia "to the floor" and keep focus on the layout. The black would provide too much contrast and your eye might actually be drawn to it.

Fred

Art,

I have the same fascia as you, beige carpet and black skirts.  My first attempt had the skirt attached to the lower edge of the fascia and it just did not look right.  As you looked at the layout you saw the modeled portion of the layout, then the brownish fascia and then the black skirt.  I moved the skirt to the top of the fascia, covering the entire fascia, and it looked much better.  My advise is whatever color skirt you go with, mount it to the top of the fascia.  For your color scheme I'd go with a beige skirt so it blends with the other colors in the room.  It will dissolve into those colors and then the layout will really pop.

Dave

Chugman posted:

....Here are a few pictures of the progress.

Art

cribbing3

Hi Art, How did you decide on the overall dimensions of the layout? Did you just go ahead and occupy every square foot available?

That's what I did for Moon Township's "acreage," allowing only an aisle from the bottom of the cellar stairs to the garage entrance. Well, now, that's not entirely true - we do have a place provided for the furnace, etc. and the laundry "room", and a "lounge-sort-of space".      FrankM

Last edited by Moonson

Thanks alot guys, I really appreciate the comments.  I have been building layouts for about 30 years and professionally for about the last twelve years. It really started because of my father and his love of trains.  The most memorable gift I received for Christmas was an N scale Southern Pacific Daylight passenger set, when I was about seven years old. That's where it started for me, and from there it was history. I owe it all to my Father and his passion for trains, whether it was real or model trains. We've spent alot of time together enjoying the hobby of trains. I have two sons that I hope still enjoy the trains, but only time will tell. They are young men and have other priorities in there lives right now. I still have a great time with my father working on his layout. 

Jim

ibew701 posted:

I thought I would contribute to Dad's thread and show the progress of the three panels I'm rebuilding for his layout. Two of them are in frames and prewired to the devices and one is ready for framing. Hope to have two ready to install on the layout by this next week.

Jim

20170215_09124520170215_09130920170215_091341

Nice work Jim. Can I assume by your user name that you are a union electrician? Would explain the neat job that you did.

Bob

Art, it's great to see your progress accelerating.  I don't mind the grid/plaster part of layout building once get into it.  It's been the kind of project that I need to be in the mood because it does involve some mess and so much time goes into masking and clean up. Your work looks clean and precise.  

Jim, those are nice panels.  What a neat project.  Well done. 

Moonson posted:
Chugman posted:

....Here are a few pictures of the progress.

Art

cribbing3

Hi Art, How did you decide on the overall dimensions of the layout? Did you just go ahead and occupy every square foot available?

That's what I did for Moon Township's "acreage," allowing only an aisle from the bottom of the cellar stairs to the garage entrance. Well, now, that's not entirely true - we do have a place provided for the furnace, etc. and the laundry "room", and a "lounge-sort-of space".      FrankM

Frank, that's pretty close.  When we were designing the house, my wife said "you can do whatever you want to with the basement."  So, I decided where the best place would be for the furnace, water heater, sump pumps, and etc. and then allocated most of what was left for the layout.  I did leave about a 20' by 12' area for a social area where we could visit, watch videos, and etc.  And I planned for an additional stairway to the basement from the garage, which I couldn't live without.  The next step was to compile a list of "want to haves" for the layout.  Examples were: minimum of 30" wide aisles, no duck unders, 2-track mainline, minimum 072 radius curves, passenger terminal, major freight yard, Intermodal yard, long enough yard leads to allow switching without fouling the mainline, and etc.  Most benchwork was 30" deep to allow easy access except in turn around areas where access hatches were required.  Then maximum train length was determined to facilitate length of passing sidings and length of yard tracks.  Maximum grades were set at 2% to allow all trains to navigate anywhere and look as prototypical as possible.

Some things were decided to be non-negotiable items such as min 072 curves, aisle widths, and no duck unders.  As always I would change a few things but overall I'm pretty happy with the way things turned out.  Biggest regret is not planning enough industries for switching in operating sessions.  As usually happens our interests evolve and I have acquired a keen interest in prototypical operating sessions.  

Love your layout and fabulous scenery.  It has the look and feel of the Pittsburgh area which we loved when we lived there.  Your scenery is very inspiring and helps keep me going.

Art

Art blurted out..." And I planned for an additional stairway to the basement from the garage, which I couldn't live without. " before realizing he had just told us all how he sneaks in new purchases without SWMBO knowing.

You should be commended on your wonderful progress, Art.   I could never work under such brutally tidy conditions.

 

Bruce

Chugman posted:
Moonson posted

Hi Art, How did you decide on the overall dimensions of the layout? Did you just go ahead and occupy every square foot available?

Frank, that's pretty close.  When we were designing the house,...

Love your layout and fabulous scenery.  It has the look and feel of the Pittsburgh area which we loved when we lived there.  Your scenery is very inspiring and helps keep me going.

Art

Hi Art, Really very nice to hear from you, and Thank You, especially, for the positive regard. I had no idea you felt so strongly about my work, even though you have posted many laudatory comments and "likes" when I have posted photos of my layout work. Thanks again for saying such a nice thing and for doing so publicly.

I finished putting cardboard lattice behind my curved stone arch bridge this afternoon.  I was going to keep going and start on another section, but one of my friends is having an operating session tonight.  I need to cut more cardboard strips in order to continue anyway.  I hope to try adding some plaster to this tomorrow and see how that goes.

Art

cribbing5cribbing6

Attachments

Images (2)
  • cribbing5
  • cribbing6
Chugman posted:

I finished putting cardboard lattice behind my curved stone arch bridge this afternoon.  I was going to keep going and start on another section, but one of my friends is having an operating session tonight.  I need to cut more cardboard strips in order to continue anyway.  I hope to try adding some plaster to this tomorrow and see how that goes.

Art

cribbing5cribbing6

Why do I suddenly have a craving for apple pie

Looks good Art!

mike g. posted:

Art, looks like it will work wonderful, what kind of face are you going to be putting on it?

Thanks, Mike.  I want to put some rock castings in and a few trees and then just grass or vegetation over everything.  I don't want a Western mountains look, but rather a hilly, Midwestern bluffs along the river look if possible.

Art

Last edited by Chugman

Add Reply

Post

OGR Publishing, Inc., 1310 Eastside Centre Ct, Suite 6, Mountain Home, AR 72653
800-980-OGRR (6477)
www.ogaugerr.com

×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×
×