Looking real good !

I'll follow your progress here. Quite an expansive and we'll planed layout. I admire your precision on every aspect. Great work.

Lookin good!    Another layout I would like to go vist someday eh

Very cool, Art! You'll need a towboat and some  barges for the Mississippi scene!

Chugman posted:

I have been posting the progress on my layout on the "What Did You Do on Your Layout" thread, but I was asked to start a new thread this time.  My son and I have been working on getting my fascias installed.  We left the hardest one to last which was the one around a tunnel.  This tunnel you enter from the left hand side of my curved stone arch bridge.  It is about 12 feet long and has my double-track mainline running through it.  Today we finished putting the top on the tunnel.  Access to the tunnel will be via a lift-out section on the far right side and by the sides in the balance of the tunnel.  Here are several pictures of the almost finished top.

 

I can't thank my son, Jim, enough for all his hard work the last few days on the layout.  He has made some impossible jobs go smoothly and get done.  Building new control panels is the next major job for the layout and he has begun that process.

Art

Art- glad you are starting a new thread too. I have been following your progress on the other page. Keep up the good work. Everything looks great so far.

Bob

Outstanding ART, nice to work on it with your son!  Keep up the good work.

Hey Art, what to keep the Bar high for the rest of us! Wonderful work!

Art , absolutely beautiful work !!!!! You should keep updating this thread

Thanks, Alex

EXCELLENT

rattler21 posted:

Art, Reference photos one and two.  Is there enough room for articulated engines?  If you don't have one you can bet your bottom dollar some one will want to run one on your layout.   John in Lansing, ILL

John, I have a spot inside another long tunnel that does not show in these pictures that will not let me run some articulated engines.  The uprights that hold the upper deck under my towns of Ruthven and Spencer do not have enough clearance.  When a friend brought his new Lionel Visionline Big Boy over the only place we could run it was on the upper branchline.  I feel badly about that, but I have never had any plans to run large articulated engines and only own one small steam engine which hardly ever gets run.  

And I just learned last night that my 21" California Zephyr cars are hitting my new tunnel liner on my freight mainline so I will have to change that.  I haven't been running passenger trains on that line, but I want to be able to.  During future operating sessions I plan to reroute passenger traffic over this section of freight mainline to bypass freight switching at my grain elevator complex that is only accessible from the passenger mainline.

Thanks for all your encouraging comments.

Art

Wow, great layout!  Please keep updating.

Art: It's not only the articulated engines and passenger cars, that wouldn't clear that area.  These cars: 89' Auto Carrier Rack have been a bigger problem with clearance for me.  I now use them for my test car.  Not only for width but also for height.  

Great work, Art! Keep us up to date as you continue working on this.

Nice work Art. 89' autoracks are the best clearance testers these days 

Fabulous, Art......put up some building pics....your kit-bashing is inspirational! I'd love to see another picture of your parking garage....

Peter

Putnam Division posted:

Fabulous, Art......put up some building pics....your kit-bashing is inspirational! I'd love to see another picture of your parking garage....

Peter

 

Thanks, Peter.  I do love working with buildings.

Art

Chugman,

That is a lot lf layout. It will be a doozy!

Ron H

Chugman posted:

Putnam Division posted:

Fabulous, Art......put up some building pics....your kit-bashing is inspirational! I'd love to see another picture of your parking garage....

Peter

 

Thanks, Peter.  I do love working with buildings.

Art

Isn't this fantastic? What a great scene! I can't wait to see it completley detailed.

Peter

Still one of my all time favorites, an amazing layout. I am sure your layout will remain near the top of many folks' lists. Also nice to see someone else that likes diesels too! That is all I have here, no steam. Also glad you started a separate thread for updates. I will be following along closely. Good Luck!

Looks great Art. Regards, Mike Mellon

Art

great work. This is going to be one fantastic layout.

alan graziano

Hi Art: All looking great, just came from your YT Channel. I do recall you saying you took a year off. Any plans to come back to YT?

Gary

Well Done Art! I like all those bridges too. 

trainroomgary posted:

Hi Art: All looking great, just came from your YT Channel. I do recall you saying you took a year off. Any plans to come back to YT?

Gary

 

Hi Gary - Yes, I have always enjoyed YT and do hope to get some new videos up one of these days.  

Art

Art,

Thanks for starting new thread. Really look forward to your layout progress.

Your layout and work are awesome.  I am inspired by all of the pictures and your updates.

I still look at your YT videos and blog page for ideas.

Thank you for the inspiration.

Tom

 Looks like the makings of a fantastic layout in a really great setting. At this stage of building you can start to see progress every week as it all comes together. I'm at the point of detailing the layout. I enjoy this aspect of the hobby even though at times it can be tedious. I often times miss the doing the big projects. Looking forward to your future updates.

Beautiful!

Art you really have built a fine layout, there is so much to look at and take in...very interesting.  I can really see the effort that has been made and the attention to the details.  Spectacular modeling...thanks for sharing it with us all.

Laidoffsick posted:

Nice work Art. 89' autoracks are the best clearance testers these days 

Yup, that's what I use. Those ladders stick out pretty far on curves. If they clear, you're golden. For height you need an MTH husky stack. Tallest car ever (unless you run your postwar crane with the boom all the way up).

Art,

Did you leave room for the Kraft Champaign, Ill. facility so you can smell BBQ sauce and macaroni/cheese being produced? LOL!

The layout looks good. Coming along nicely.

On our last work day we added a siding to the location of my future flour mill.  One of my operating themes will be the movement of grain and flour cars that will supply my Wonder Bread Bakery.  I will have local grain elevators that will collect the farmers crops, then grain hoppers will take that to the large regional elevator complex and from there it will go to the flour mill.  So, I need receiving tracks for incoming grain cars and outgoing tracks for flour cars.

I had one 072 left-hand switch left and wanted to find a way to use it rather buy a new right-hand switch.  We experimented with many combinations of short pieces of curved track and flex track and finally decided on what you see in the attached pictures.  Oh, I found out that Atlas flex track doesn't flex nearly as well after it has been painted.  Next steps are to build the retaining wall behind the flour mill, add track bumpers, paint the track, and start building my flour mill.

Art

I can see the wiggle to modify for the siding. Critical thinking for your operation. What a great yard ladder. I am thinking about moving a couple of turn outs so I can switch cars w/o fouling the main. 

Art,

Thank you for starting your new topic for construction of your layout!  I can see having Jim available to help with some jobs is a lifesaver!  Please tell him he is helping to make a lot of folks out here in Forumland happy by seeing your layout come to life!   Could you post a photo of Jim sometime, so we can put a face with his name?  

Art, great looking work you have going on there, I have to agree with above, Great looking yard, looks like enough room to part several cars just waiting to be picked up. Love your updates between you and Elliot, Max and a whole lot of other people here I never run out of things to read and think about!

Mark Boyce posted:

Art,

Thank you for starting your new topic for construction of your layout!  I can see having Jim available to help with some jobs is a lifesaver!  Please tell him he is helping to make a lot of folks out here in Forumland happy by seeing your layout come to life!   Could you post a photo of Jim sometime, so we can put a face with his name?  

Mark - I forgot to respond to your request.  I looked through my "train related" pictures of my son, Jim, and found one I don't think he will mind if I share.  It was taken a few years ago at one of my operating sessions.  Jim is the fellow in the center of the picture with a burgundy shirt on and a baseball cap.  He was operating the Proviso freight yard that day with a smiling crew.

Art

Another request that I have been getting frequently was for a copy of my track plan.  My son, Jim, starting entering it into RR software, but I kept making changes to it.  After we completely redone my former Intermodal yard into what I now call my Eola classification yard, he began updating the track plan again.  Then we added a siding at my future flour mill and he had to do another update.

I think that I am finally done with track revisions.  I don't have any more room or switches, so I should be done.  So here are the copies of the track plan.  It is shown three ways:  A complete version with the upper line in red and the lower in black, an upper only version, and a lower only version.  I want to annotate some of the scenery features and yards, but that will come later.

Art

This is really looking good Art 

Clem k

Moving right long, Art--thanks for the update in your own build thread.

Chugman posted:

 

Mark - I forgot to respond to your request.  I looked through my "train related" pictures of my son, Jim, and found one I don't think he will mind if I share.  It was taken a few years ago at one of my operating sessions.  Jim is the fellow in the center of the picture with a burgundy shirt on and a baseball cap.  He was operating the Proviso freight yard that day with a smiling crew.

Art 

Art,

Glad to see who is responsible for helping you!  Thank you and thank Jim!

Art, what is the grade on the track connecting the two levels?

It is 2% on one and 2 1/2% on the other.

Art

Beautiful job so far! I wish my father was into trains. You could call it a work of Art!

great looking layout plans. If I wanted to do that many switchs I would have to spend my kids money! LOL

Now take that fascia and paint it black, which will REALLY draw your eye to the scene. 

If you need further convincing, a before and after shot of my latest scenery project:

The paint was still a bit wet when I shot the photo. 

As far as I'm concerned, this is one of the best things that can improve the look of a layout with the least amount of effort.  I liked the look so much, I went and finished all my fascia.

On the original part of my layout, I used green.  The thinking back 20 years ago in the model press was to use a color indicative of the area you were modeling, so, if you were doing Santa Fe in the desert, use a sand color.  I am going to redo everything with black.

Regards,

Jerry

Jerry - That is an interesting suggestion.  I have already decided to put black skirting below my fascia, but so far have liked the earth colored fascia.  Your layout looks great.

Art

Art,

When I saw your "tunnel" photos previously, it occurred to me that it would be a neat feature and visual "surprise" if you created even a small diorama looking inside the tunnel--such as timber supports, rock wall tunnel facings, minimal lighting, etc. even if the scene was only 1' or so in length and viewed through Plexiglas attached to the fascia.  It'd be more work, of course, but surely a very neat feature.

In any event, it's very enjoyable to read about your progress and, as a dad, to read about your collaboration with your son.

Well designed and constructed layout for sure, but your train room really is finished off nicely, well lighted, and the perimeter is clean.  I admire how neat and orderly that room shows off the layout.  Your visitors are really going to enjoy it. 

Fantastic!
Peter

Pingman posted:

Art,

When I saw your "tunnel" photos previously, it occurred to me that it would be a neat feature and visual "surprise" if you created even a small diorama looking inside the tunnel--such as timber supports, rock wall tunnel facings, minimal lighting, etc. even if the scene was only 1' or so in length and viewed through Plexiglas attached to the fascia.  It'd be more work, of course, but surely a very neat feature.

In any event, it's very enjoyable to read about your progress and, as a dad, to read about your collaboration with your son.

That is a good suggestion.  I saw something similar to that on a layout tour on last year's O Scale convention where they did that on a coal mine.  I started adding tunnel walls made of 1/8" foam painted black, but the first one was too close to the track and my 21" California Zephyr cars hit it.  So back to the drawing board.

Art

Art, you may have previously described your operating system (card/waybill type) but I am curious what you use and how complicated it can get.

pennsynut posted:

Art, you may have previously described your operating system (card/waybill type) but I am curious what you use and how complicated it can get.

In the past my "operating sessions" were very casual to say the least.  They were primarily to run unit trains and passenger trains with little or no switching.  Passenger trains were supposed to stop at scheduled stations and etc.  We would run a circus train on the freight mainline for variety and etc.  Running trains through crossovers across another mainline to get to the interchange track to take the train to the upper line would add some excitement and variety.

I am working toward using car cards and way bills in the future.  I have to get individual numbers on all my cars, get my control panels completed so visitors can operate switches, and hopefully finish some of my industries before that can happen.  I changed my Intermodal yard with two tracks and no yard lead to a 4 track classification yard that is double-ended and has a fair sized yard lead.  That gives me two decent sized freight yards and a passenger terminal for operations.  I don't have a lot of industries with sidings, but hopefully enough to keep some people busy for awhile.  I do not plan on using a fast clock at any time in the foreseeable future.  

Art 

Thanks Art. I will have to get pretty creative with my imagination to do a waybill operation but the idea intrigues me.

Anyone can see you're having a rockin-good time of it, and to be able to work on that excellent project with your son is a memories-builder you'll have in your heart to cherish forever. I'm happy for you. You're exactly the kind of person who deserves such joy, Art. And the results that we can see are fabulous.

FrankM 

Thanks, FrankM.  I do feel very blessed to have a son that loves trains like I do, lives fairly close, and enjoys helping me with my layout.  The truth is that I have been relying more and more on him as I get older.  He does excellent work and when I want something done right, I tend to want to wait until he is available to help me.  

Art

Jim just sent me copies of the track plan in RR Track software that might be easier to read.  The lower level is on top and the upper level is on the bottom.

Art

Art,

Very well done! Your layout is coming along fine. 

The last RR-Track plan you posted, above - is that a 2-ft grid?

Thank you for sharing, and keep the updates coming.

Alex

Ingeniero No1 posted:

Art,

Very well done! Your layout is coming along fine. 

The last RR-Track plan you posted, above - is that a 2-ft grid?

Thank you for sharing, and keep the updates coming.

Alex

Thanks, Alex.  Yes it is a 2 foot grid.

Art

Chugman posted:

Pingman posted:

Art,

When I saw your "tunnel" photos previously, it occurred to me that it would be a neat feature and visual "surprise" if you created even a small diorama looking inside the tunnel--such as timber supports, rock wall tunnel facings, minimal lighting, etc. even if the scene was only 1' or so in length and viewed through Plexiglas attached to the fascia.  It'd be more work, of course, but surely a very neat feature.

In any event, it's very enjoyable to read about your progress and, as a dad, to read about your collaboration with your son.

That is a good suggestion.  I saw something similar to that on a layout tour on last year's O Scale convention where they did that on a coal mine.  I started adding tunnel walls made of 1/8" foam painted black, but the first one was too close to the track and my 21" California Zephyr cars hit it.  So back to the drawing board.

Art

Hey Art  Do you have any pics of that coal mine or where I could see it?

Art, I'm a huge advocate of black fascia, as it does a couple of things. It tends to disappear and allows your eye to focus on the trains and the layout, and it just makes things POP. You've already gone with black skirting, finish the job with black fascia. It can be a little scary at first. I wouldn't have it any other way on my layout.

This is an interesting photo, because it shows the contrast between the black and the brown of the raw Masonite.

Even without scenery, you can see that pop. The contrast between the black fascia and the blue sky.

Hello Art, just a quick question is that a Helix over on the right side of the photo's you posted.

If so this is interesting.

MarkStrittmatter posted:

Hello Art, just a quick question is that a Helix over on the right side of the photo's you posted.

If so this is interesting.

Mark, that's not Art's layout with the helix, I think it's Jerry's (GNNPNUT).

Thanks Elliot, either way it looks like a neat helix !!!!

Thanks again !!!!!

MarkStrittmatter posted:

Thanks Elliot, either way it looks like a neat helix !!!!

Thanks again !!!!!

I agree Mark. I think Jerry's home layout is HO. He did O with the now defunct modular group along with Hot Water and some other forum members.

Art,

As Elliot and others have suggested, a black fascia really does wonders. I have doors in the front of my layout (first picture), and these provide access to the hidden world of the underneath. Other than that, I have black curtains, which were very easy to install and also provide easy access to the underneath. Of course, I have a rather unique resource for the curtains, among many other contributions - my wife Judy. 

I ended up adding curtains all around, and this really helped keeping the temptation of those curious eyes (smaller kids) from wondering under the layout.

Keep us up to date with your progress!

Alex

Alex, that looks great!  Thanks for sharing pictures of your beautiful layout.  The only one that doesn't like black fascia is my wife so far.  Stay tuned.

Art

I was reading and looking at the black facia pictures yesterday, and I went and bought a gallon of flat black.  Mine were white and besides looking dirty they stood out.  I painted them all black last night, and love how it makes the scenery pop and hides the trestles for the upper level. 

Another example of painting black:

Paint it black

Starting in the mid-1950s, Mercury engines were produced in a rainbow of colors. In fact, Mercury advertised itself as "the most colorful name in outboards" until 1958, when "Stark White" became Mercury's signature engine color. But with the introduction of the 6-cylinder 100hp "Tower of Power," outboards suddenly grew taller and wider. Designers feared the new engine looked out of proportion to the boats it powered, and they sought ways to make it appear smaller.

Here's where a legend begins: One night, the mother of head Mercury engineer Charlie Strang wandered into his office. Charlie explained the engine dilemma to his mother, who offered a practical suggestion: "Well, a large woman always wears a black dressWhy don't you paint the engine black?"

"Just for the heck of it, we painted one black," said Strang, "and the engine looked like it shrank by about 20 percent!"

Over the next several decades, Mercury built a brand in part on its signature "Phantom Black." In just a few weeks, Mercury will offer its Verado engine in two shades of white – hot and cold – in addition to Phantom black.

Regarding black fascia, it depends upon your intent.

If you want the room to be all about the layout, a dark fascia makes a big difference, as Elliot noted (and his train room will certainly be all about the layout). You would need a well-lit layout to get the maximum benefit from this approach.

But I like the look of the portion of Ingeniero No1's layout that has the doors below the layout surface. A layout designed with such a look all the way around would resemble furniture and offers a friendlier atmosphere. Of course, if a whole layout was designed that way, access below the layout would be a problem, unless the fronts were removable.

Agreed.  I'm definitely going to have to do the underside of at least part of my layout as open shelves or cabinets, as I must share the space with a downstairs "den" area.  I really like the decorative look of Alex's cabinet doors in the included picture (as well as his drop-down turntable).  There are areas where the black curtain may be a better option. 

Chugman posted:

Jerry - That is an interesting suggestion.  I have already decided to put black skirting below my fascia, but so far have liked the earth colored fascia.  Your layout looks great.

Art

I am ready to install skirting below my fascia. How are or how did you fasten the skirting below the fascia?

Thanks Buzz

GG1 2340 posted:

Chugman posted:

Jerry - That is an interesting suggestion.  I have already decided to put black skirting below my fascia, but so far have liked the earth colored fascia.  Your layout looks great.

Art

I am ready to install skirting below my fascia. How are or how did you fasten the skirting below the fascia?

Thanks Buzz

For our layout, my wife got a bunch of those adjustable spring loaded round curtain rods. She made each skirt with a curtain rod fold at the top of each skirt, put the round rods through the skirt, and then pressed the spring loaded rod between the leg supports. Instant, and easily removable skirts.

Hot Water posted:

GG1 2340 posted:

Chugman posted:

Jerry - That is an interesting suggestion.  I have already decided to put black skirting below my fascia, but so far have liked the earth colored fascia.  Your layout looks great.

Art

I am ready to install skirting below my fascia. How are or how did you fasten the skirting below the fascia?

Thanks Buzz

For our layout, my wife got a bunch of those adjustable spring loaded round curtain rods. She made each skirt with a curtain rod fold at the top of each skirt, put the round rods through the skirt, and then pressed the spring loaded rod between the leg supports. Instant, and easily removable skirts.

Jack - That is pretty much what I plan to do with mine.  No sense trying to over think it like we all sometimes have a tendency to do.

Art

Concerning fascia colors here is my dilemma.  I understand and agree with the black focusing all your attention on the layout, which of course is good, but I am also concerned with the effect on the over all room itself.  I have beige colored carpet, neutral or ecru colored walls, and stained oak woodwork.  I want the fascia to be in harmony with the total room.  Oh, did I mention that I am not a decorator?  I am leaning toward keeping the earth colored fascia with black skirting below it.  That will keep the eyes from the floor area and make a gradual transition from the earth colored fascia to the layout itself.  I have seen green fascia and I like that too, but keep coming back to the earth color so far.

Art  

Chugman:

Love the layout & great to watch its progress.  Any tips on working with Atlas flex track?  I've been told it can be a bit of a pain to work with, but I will need to use it to "fudge" certain areas of the layout I'm planning to build.  I know from playing with it a little that tends to hold its shape vs. spring back to straight.  I assume one should plan well first so you only need to bend once when laying it down?  Thanks.

- Neal

Fridge56Vet posted:

Chugman:

Love the layout & great to watch its progress.  Any tips on working with Atlas flex track?  I've been told it can be a bit of a pain to work with, but I will need to use it to "fudge" certain areas of the layout I'm planning to build.  I know from playing with it a little that tends to hold its shape vs. spring back to straight.  I assume one should plan well first so you only need to bend once when laying it down?  Thanks.

- Neal

 

Atlas flex works great, but as you mentioned can be difficult if you are trying to bend too sharp of a curve.  And I learned the hard way that it doesn't flex very well after it has been painted.  I reused a section recently that I had previously sprayed with Camo Brown and it didn't want to bend.  The paint kept it from sliding on the rails as it usually does.  It worked, but it wasn't as easy as usual.  Just anchor it good at one end when you are bending it and screw it down as you go.  You probably will have to cut off one of the rails to properly match up with the next normal piece of track.

Art

When we started laying Atlas flex track for our layout, we very quickly learned to solder 3 or 4 or 5 full sections of it together, then with 5 or 6 men, force the darned stuff into position, glue and screw it down, and hope!!!!! Some many days later, I removed all the screws, and reused them to lay more of the track. Once all the track & turnouts were laid and glued in place, I removed ALL the screws.

While my son, Jim, has been building my new control panels I have been trying to get some scenery work done.  I have been avoiding getting into doing plaster as I haven't done it in a long time.  Well, tonight I just decided it was time to get started.  So, I began by cutting strips of cardboard and then stapling them to the layout in a grid pattern.  I got a fair start before I ran out of time.

Here are a few pictures of the progress.

Art

Chugman posted:

....  I have beige colored carpet, neutral or ecru colored walls, and stained oak woodwork.  I want the fascia to be in harmony with the total room.  Oh, did I mention that I am not a decorator?  I am leaning toward keeping the earth colored fascia with black skirting below it.  That will keep the eyes from the floor area and make a gradual transition from the earth colored fascia to the layout itself.  I have seen green fascia and I like that too, but keep coming back to the earth color so far.

Art  

Art,

Going with your color scheme, I would suggest going with a light brown or tan curtain instead of black.  This should carry the earth color fascia "to the floor" and keep focus on the layout. The black would provide too much contrast and your eye might actually be drawn to it.

Fred

Art,

I have the same fascia as you, beige carpet and black skirts.  My first attempt had the skirt attached to the lower edge of the fascia and it just did not look right.  As you looked at the layout you saw the modeled portion of the layout, then the brownish fascia and then the black skirt.  I moved the skirt to the top of the fascia, covering the entire fascia, and it looked much better.  My advise is whatever color skirt you go with, mount it to the top of the fascia.  For your color scheme I'd go with a beige skirt so it blends with the other colors in the room.  It will dissolve into those colors and then the layout will really pop.

Dave

I thought I would contribute to Dad's thread and show the progress of the three panels I'm rebuilding for his layout. Two of them are in frames and prewired to the devices and one is ready for framing. Hope to have two ready to install on the layout by this next week.

Jim

Jim, the panels are extremely handsome!!

Jim, Great looking work, you and your dad are 2 of a kind! You both do such great work I bet its nice to work with eachother!

Chugman posted:

....Here are a few pictures of the progress.

Art

Hi Art, How did you decide on the overall dimensions of the layout? Did you just go ahead and occupy every square foot available?

That's what I did for Moon Township's "acreage," allowing only an aisle from the bottom of the cellar stairs to the garage entrance. Well, now, that's not entirely true - we do have a place provided for the furnace, etc. and the laundry "room", and a "lounge-sort-of space".      FrankM

Thanks alot guys, I really appreciate the comments.  I have been building layouts for about 30 years and professionally for about the last twelve years. It really started because of my father and his love of trains.  The most memorable gift I received for Christmas was an N scale Southern Pacific Daylight passenger set, when I was about seven years old. That's where it started for me, and from there it was history. I owe it all to my Father and his passion for trains, whether it was real or model trains. We've spent alot of time together enjoying the hobby of trains. I have two sons that I hope still enjoy the trains, but only time will tell. They are young men and have other priorities in there lives right now. I still have a great time with my father working on his layout. 

Jim

ibew701 posted:

I thought I would contribute to Dad's thread and show the progress of the three panels I'm rebuilding for his layout. Two of them are in frames and prewired to the devices and one is ready for framing. Hope to have two ready to install on the layout by this next week.

Jim

Nice work Jim. Can I assume by your user name that you are a union electrician? Would explain the neat job that you did.

Bob

Art, it's great to see your progress accelerating.  I don't mind the grid/plaster part of layout building once get into it.  It's been the kind of project that I need to be in the mood because it does involve some mess and so much time goes into masking and clean up. Your work looks clean and precise.  

Jim, those are nice panels.  What a neat project.  Well done. 

Moonson posted:

Chugman posted:

....Here are a few pictures of the progress.

Art

Hi Art, How did you decide on the overall dimensions of the layout? Did you just go ahead and occupy every square foot available?

That's what I did for Moon Township's "acreage," allowing only an aisle from the bottom of the cellar stairs to the garage entrance. Well, now, that's not entirely true - we do have a place provided for the furnace, etc. and the laundry "room", and a "lounge-sort-of space".      FrankM

Frank, that's pretty close.  When we were designing the house, my wife said "you can do whatever you want to with the basement."  So, I decided where the best place would be for the furnace, water heater, sump pumps, and etc. and then allocated most of what was left for the layout.  I did leave about a 20' by 12' area for a social area where we could visit, watch videos, and etc.  And I planned for an additional stairway to the basement from the garage, which I couldn't live without.  The next step was to compile a list of "want to haves" for the layout.  Examples were: minimum of 30" wide aisles, no duck unders, 2-track mainline, minimum 072 radius curves, passenger terminal, major freight yard, Intermodal yard, long enough yard leads to allow switching without fouling the mainline, and etc.  Most benchwork was 30" deep to allow easy access except in turn around areas where access hatches were required.  Then maximum train length was determined to facilitate length of passing sidings and length of yard tracks.  Maximum grades were set at 2% to allow all trains to navigate anywhere and look as prototypical as possible.

Some things were decided to be non-negotiable items such as min 072 curves, aisle widths, and no duck unders.  As always I would change a few things but overall I'm pretty happy with the way things turned out.  Biggest regret is not planning enough industries for switching in operating sessions.  As usually happens our interests evolve and I have acquired a keen interest in prototypical operating sessions.  

Love your layout and fabulous scenery.  It has the look and feel of the Pittsburgh area which we loved when we lived there.  Your scenery is very inspiring and helps keep me going.

Art

Art blurted out..." And I planned for an additional stairway to the basement from the garage, which I couldn't live without. " before realizing he had just told us all how he sneaks in new purchases without SWMBO knowing.

You should be commended on your wonderful progress, Art.   I could never work under such brutally tidy conditions.

Bruce

The dynamic duo is at it again! Great update. Those control panels are works of art. 

Chugman posted:

Moonson posted

Hi Art, How did you decide on the overall dimensions of the layout? Did you just go ahead and occupy every square foot available?

Frank, that's pretty close.  When we were designing the house,...

Love your layout and fabulous scenery.  It has the look and feel of the Pittsburgh area which we loved when we lived there.  Your scenery is very inspiring and helps keep me going.

Art

Hi Art, Really very nice to hear from you, and Thank You, especially, for the positive regard. I had no idea you felt so strongly about my work, even though you have posted many laudatory comments and "likes" when I have posted photos of my layout work. Thanks again for saying such a nice thing and for doing so publicly.

I finished putting cardboard lattice behind my curved stone arch bridge this afternoon.  I was going to keep going and start on another section, but one of my friends is having an operating session tonight.  I need to cut more cardboard strips in order to continue anyway.  I hope to try adding some plaster to this tomorrow and see how that goes.

Art

Chugman posted:

I finished putting cardboard lattice behind my curved stone arch bridge this afternoon.  I was going to keep going and start on another section, but one of my friends is having an operating session tonight.  I need to cut more cardboard strips in order to continue anyway.  I hope to try adding some plaster to this tomorrow and see how that goes.

Art

Why do I suddenly have a craving for apple pie

Looks good Art!

Art, looks like it will work wonderful, what kind of face are you going to be putting on it?

mike g. posted:

Art, looks like it will work wonderful, what kind of face are you going to be putting on it?

Thanks, Mike.  I want to put some rock castings in and a few trees and then just grass or vegetation over everything.  I don't want a Western mountains look, but rather a hilly, Midwestern bluffs along the river look if possible.

Art

keep up the good work Art it looks great. Jim the panel's look fantastic!

Art:

As usual, it all looks great.

When you're all done with the layout, would you consider posting the little fairy who flies around and keeps your train room absolutely dust- and debris-free on the For Sale forum?  I sure could use whatever it is you're using...   

Steven J. Serenska

Great work so far!

Hi Art

  Looks good on the lattice. If you put 2 layers of mesh drywall tape over it the plaster will stick . The tape comes about 8 inches wide and self adhesive. Might need two costs but dries fast. Then you can put any kind of scenery on it. Just my 2 cents.

Rsy

Great layout! For the lattice I would use plaster cloth by scenic express or other. It's the same as what is used for medical use for casts etc. Easy -- wet and set  

Art,

Yours is a layout I have to see. Of course, I will bring my photo equipment and do it right !! Amazing is a word I would use for the layout you and your son are building. I would offer one piece of advice. If you ever wake up in the middle of the night and decide to tear it down and build another, lay back down until the feeling passes.

Scrappy

Scrapiron Scher posted:

Art,

Yours is a layout I have to see. Of course, I will bring my photo equipment and do it right !! Amazing is a word I would use for the layout you and your son are building. I would offer one piece of advice. If you ever wake up in the middle of the night and decide to tear it down and build another, lay back down until the feeling passes.

Scrappy

Elliot, thanks for your kind words.  If you are ever in my area, you are welcome to visit.

Art

Finally started applying some plaster.  I haven't done this since I was a young man at home and things have changed a little since then.  We didn't have plaster cloths then.  Maybe doctors did for casts on broken bones, but I was unaware of them.  I am going to let this dry before I proceed, but it looks O.K. so far.

Art

This is getting exciting Art. Just the plaster cloth makes a huge difference.

Unfortunately, I had that plaster put on me way back when I was very young. I had it on so long that my skin turned to mush. I believe back then, they didn't understand fully what was going on. They used a saw to cut it off that left a burn mark down threw my skin. They said "HUH, that shouldn't have happened?"

 So I normally don't like to see that stuff. However for progress on your layout, I can look past what you're using!

Well Art, the start of the plaster is looking just fine! You can tell your skills are at the top of there game, but that's with everything you do it seams like. Even thought you haven't done this since you were a young man, you can tell your still young at heart!

Art you really are a neat and tiddy plaster man.  I really got my hands involved smoothing out the plaster cloth or paper towels. I can't see splash or smudge even on the newspaper masking.  Looking great.

Engineer-Joe posted:

Unfortunately, I had that plaster put on me way back when I was very young. I had it on so long that my skin turned to mush. I believe back then, they didn't understand fully what was going on. They used a saw to cut it off that left a burn mark down threw my skin. They said "HUH, that shouldn't have happened?"

 So I normally don't like to see that stuff. However for progress on your layout, I can look past what you're using!

Yikes, Joe!!  I can see why you have an aversion!

Art, Looks great!  Very exciting to getting to this part!  Scenery is my favorite part of building a layout.

ART ITS LOOKIN GREAT, YOUR CONTROL PANELS ARE WORKS OF ART!

Art,

All of the updates are really exciting. The panels look great and your work is excellent.

Maybe sometime you could be a tour stop for the March Meet folks. I would love to see your layout in person. The pictures are great and enjoy following the progress.

You certainly have the layout and skills I hope to aspire to. I learn so much from your posts and the comments.

Looking forward to the next update.

Thank you!

Tom

Very nice job, Art.  Look forward to when you have those Spence Refeers on your layout.  

That's looking very nice Art, I love the creative process....it all brings a layout to life. 

At one time I checked OGR forums 3-4 times a day, currently I'm down to about once a week. Art since I found you started this thread I'm going to be here daily again. Personally watching members post layout progress is my favorite part of OGR.

I like the recent progress. Hopefully this warm weather will go away so you can stay focused! Jim your boards look superb.

I think I asked this before Art but can't remember, what were you planning on using for water?

Thanks, Zett.  I am going to try EnviroTex Lite and see how it goes.  Woodland Scenics new water material looks interesting also.

Art

Excellent and neat work. That carved stone arch bridge is really a work of art.

When I did the hills on my layout, I started with wood struts, wire screen, then newspaper and plaster of Paris. Right after the first one, I discovered foamboard for carving, then used plaster cloth over cardboard strips, finally finishing with Sculptamold and Hydocal for cover detail and rock formations. The materials that we have to work with these days is incredible. They save time and give great results.  Can't wait to see the finished product.

A small progress report.  My son, Jim, has two of my new control panels done, one tested and ready to install and the other ready for final testing.  We are hoping that he can finish the third one and install them this next week.  He is still off work after having an emergency gall bladder operation last Sunday, which put the brakes on everything for him.

I have been wrestling with my plaster job which has been going very slowly.  Today I made some rock molds for the first time and they look like they turned pretty good.  I am going to let them dry overnight before I place them on the layout.  I added some crumpled-up newspapers and more plaster cloth where my bridge ends meet the new back plaster wall.  

I have a couple dumb questions: What is the best way to attach the plaster castings?  Elmer's White Glue, hot glue gun, or wait and put them in fresh plaster?  Do I need to add another layer of plaster cloth before I add the final surface plaster?  I have one layer there so far.  

Art

 Art, I did this many years ago. Not sure if it was the best way. Dry plaster really absorbs water. I wet the back of the rock face as well as where they were to be attached. I then mixed up some plaster. I placed the rock mold where it was to be placed and then tilted it forward. I then spooned the mixed plaster behind the mold and just pressed it in place. Some plaster will ooze out. I would use that to blend the rock mold into the surrounding terrain using a cheap wet paint brush. Keep a spray mister handy to keep everything damp. The already dried plaster really soaks up the water from the freshly poured plaster.

 Thick silicon adhesive may hold them in place. Still you will need to mix something like Scultamold to blend them into the terrain.

 I used brown grocery bags cut up and dipped in plaster for my base coat. I did apply a skim coat about a 1/8 to 1/4" thick over it. I used throwaway foam brushes to smooth it out.

mike g. posted:

Art, looks like it will work wonderful, what kind of face are you going to be putting on it?

Happy! 

Art, to attach the rock molds get some Hydrocal (either regular which is best bought in 50 lb. bags from a drywall supplier or by the box from Woodlands Scenics) and mix up a small batch and use it as a bridge between your plaster rolls and the rock mold. Smear the Hydrocal on with a cheap two inch paint brush (synthetic bristle). Cover the track and floor and anything else because it can get messy. But, it's way fun to do and once you get the hang of it you will love doing it. 

Art,

I've always used good old, plain old, joint compound.  It's not expensive, goes a long way, makes no mess, soft but firm, allows for easy fill ins between gaps, doesn't require any water, sets those hydrocal/sculptamold rocks in perfectly, allows for easy adjustments/moves, sets up solid, paints easily.  I've been using the same bucket since the 80's, on three different layouts, in two houses.  

Just my opinion...

Jerry

I just started looking at this thread a few days ago.  I must say, I am extremely impressed.  The control panels are top notch, the arched viaduct, the buildings, the bridges, the yards…well they’re just amazing.

There are many options to stiffen the plaster cloth structure and to adhere rock castings to the structure.  You could add a second layer of plaster cloth if you want to make a more rigid structure.  You could also stiffen it up using a thin coat of plaster or dry wall compound.  At various times, I have used Mold-A-Scene, Structolite and Sculptamold over rigid foam, crumpled newspaper, and plaster cloth to add shape and stiffness.  I have used hydrocal and dry wall compound as a between the rocks patch and they would probably work well for holding rocks in place. For me, the hydrocal sets up too fast.  You don’t get much done before the batch sets up and you have to mix another batch.  I have also pushed rock castings into wet structolite which seemed to work well. I've also tested Mold-A-Scene and Sculptamold for adhesion by putting them on a piece of plywood.  They both held tight to the plywood when dry so you could also use them (push the casting into them when they are still wet) to hold the rocks in place.  Mold-A-Scene, Structolite, Sculptamold and dry wall compound will take a day or more to fully harden.   On my last terrain project, I used both hot melt glue and construction adhesive (Loctite power grab) to secure rock castings to rigid foam.  That also worked well...you just need to have a dust free surface.  The hot melt glue gives immediate adhesion and the Loctite gives a strong bond.

Art, when you are able to plan a layout from the basement up that's the best thing going. Not too many of us have that extra option. We have to work with what is there already. Enjoying the build through the pics. Before you know it you will be done. Great job...........Paul

Hi Art,  lot's of nice progress, everything is looking great !!!

Alex

Art,

This may be a little late, but I used Pacon Palst'rCraft impregnated sheets, and they worked great - practically no mess what so ever. They come in 5 lb and 20 lb boxes. I bought the 20 lb box, which has 396 feet of the 6-inch wide sheets, and still have about a fourth of it left. The 5 lb boxes cost around $28, and the 20 lb around $68 (cost me $42 back in 2011 from this place, but now is $68 w/free shipping!)

Good luck, and keep posting updates!

Thank you for sharing.

Alex

ibew701 posted:

I thought I would contribute to Dad's thread and show the progress of the three panels I'm rebuilding for his layout. Two of them are in frames and prewired to the devices and one is ready for framing. Hope to have two ready to install on the layout by this next week.

Jim

This is absolutely phenomenal work.  Great panels.  

Thanks everyone for the kind words on the panels.  I'll be working on installing the first two panels into the layout today. Dad and I will try and document the process of the installation and hook-up.  RSJB18 - Yes I am a union electrician in Local 701, DuPage county Illinois.  Been a member for 30 years and have done about every type of construction work except traffic lights.  It will be a slow process today, as I am recovering from gall bladder surgery and the doctors orders are to take it easy.  Can't even carry my own toolbox. 

Jim

My son and I worked the last two days on the layout.  We were able to remove the old control panel at my new Eola Classification yard area and replace it with the new one.  It works and looks great except we had a small problem in that the existing wires from the switches are a little too short.  This was caused by the new panel being a little larger.  We decided to work on extending the wires later as the panel is use-able now as it is, we just need to be careful that we don’t try to extend it too far and pull any wires loose until we can fix the wire lengths.

Jim updated my three MTH TIU’s and cloned my three remotes.  He also did the same for our train friend Stan.  There were severe storm warnings out so we quit for the night.  15 tornadoes hit fairly close to us during that night, but none of us, family or friends were effected.

Yesterday, we moved to the Proviso yard control panel and removed the old control panel.  A decision was made to improve the mounting of this one so we began rebuilding the layout bench work in this area.  We moved two legs and removed the side frame.  We decided on the new design, but decided to quit for the day.

Jim was wanting to see if he could fix the non-operating Red Owl sign on my Menard’s Red Owl building.  As many of you know, they are very hard to access without damaging the building.  He discovered that the wire to the sign did not have any current in it.  So he ran power to it from a Miller power supply that he had and it works great.

I will post pictures soon.

Art

Here are pictures of the new Eola Yard panel during installation.

The old panel has been removed after all the wires were tagged and removed from the back of the panel.

The new panel has it's hinge installed and is ready to be installed into the side of the benchwork.

Here is a view from the back side of the new panel.  We added a cabinet slide on the left of the picture.  We used only one on the first panel and I didn't like the stress it put on the panel when you would pull the panel up from it's vertical position.  These slides are great at holding the panel at different angles.

Here is the panel extended out and up so the operator can see and use the panel more clearly. 

Here is the completed view with some of the switch connections made.

Jim

Great work there Jim, I sure am glad you marked all the wires. I tried once to just move wires from one to another and got all messed up! Again you and your dad make a great pair!

ibew701 posted:

Here are pictures of the new Eola Yard panel during installation.

The old panel has been removed after all the wires were tagged and removed from the back of the panel.

The new panel has it's hinge installed and is ready to be installed into the side of the benchwork.

Here is a view from the back side of the new panel.  We added a cabinet slide on the left of the picture.  We used only one on the first panel and I didn't like the stress it put on the panel when you would pull the panel up from it's vertical position.  These slides are great at holding the panel at different angles.

Here is the panel extended out and up so the operator can see and use the panel more clearly. 

Here is the completed view with some of the switch connections made.

Jim

Nice work !    Then again I would expect nothing less from an IBEW member.  

Jim, thanks for adding the pictures of the Eola yard control panel.  I love the way it turned out and am anxious to get the other two done.  You make what would be an impossible job for me seem easy by watching and helping you install them. 

I hope to get back to my plastering some time today.  I have been worrying too much about doing it right and need to "just do it."  

Art

Some great ideas on that panel!! The mounting and adjustable hinges and I am especially impressed with the labels next to the Euro style terminal strip terminals. Could you explain a little how you did that and what you used to make the labels? I have tried similar things before and it's a real PITA to get those labels all fitting properly and lined up so neatly...not to mention coming up with a 'short' descriptive name for each terminal!! Very nice work there, looks perfect!! 

RTR12, thanks for the compliments. I design everything on MS Publisher and I have alot of patience. 

Jim

Jim, the panels look great!  Hope you are doing well and better since your surgery.  

ibew701 posted:

RTR12, thanks for the compliments. I design everything on MS Publisher and I have alot of patience. 

Jim

You're welcome! And you must have a LOT of patience for those labels. By about the third one I am usually ready to throw something or go for the hammer! 

We always used a Brother or Brady labeler at work. I am now retired and I only have a Brother labeler here at home. It's nice, but it's still difficult to get everything uniform.

What did you print the labels on after using the MS Publisher and I am guessing the MS Publisher helps with the uniform lengths? It's hard to get uniform lengths with the Brother labeler. 

Thanks for anything more you can add here, and again very nice work there.

I use three different labelers at work, which are more complicated than the brother p-touch. We are required to mark & tag all of our work.  I have used MS Publisher for a long time and am used to it.  I use it for all the panel designs also.  I can build designs to exact size very easily.  The terminal labels are printed on full sheet labels and then cut with scissors by hand.

Jim

Thanks again Jim. I think I might look around for something PC based and try the full sheets like Avery or something like that. Might be easier to get all lined up that way? Anyway, thanks for explaining further.

Art,

I wish I could come over and sling some plaster for you. Jist slather it right on those gauze sheets. You'll be fine. The panels alone are worth the price of admission. They don't get any better. Wow !

Scrappy

Scrapiron Scher posted:

Art,

I wish I could come over and sling some plaster for you. Jist slather it right on those gauze sheets. You'll be fine. The panels alone are worth the price of admission. They don't get any better. Wow !

Scrappy

 

Thanks, Elliot.  I wish you were close enough to come over too, I would welcome the help and encouragement.  

Jim's control panels have really evolved since he started making them.  His first one is the one he did for me to control the switches for my Chicago Union Station passenger terminal area.  I loved it, but he wants to replace it as soon as possible.  We have added the switches in my Hodgkins industrial area to this panel so I am anxious to get it up and running also.

Art  

For sticking on those plaster castings I use a product called structolite.  The problem I always had with hydrocal was how quickly it sets up and I end up throwing away more than I put  on the layout!  The other thing I really like about structolite is it has some texture to it.  The aggregate in the structolite I think is ground walnut shell or something similar.  Anyhow it makes the result very light and very strong, sort of like putting straw in the adobe when making bricks! Have a spray water bottle with 'wet' water in it, spritz the plaster wall, the underside of the casting, slather on some structolite on the casting and stick on the layout.  Then take a little structolite and force it in around the edges of the casting.  The grit in the structolite will give you a great look.  BTW it takes paint and scenery stuff really well. 

https://www.menards.com/main/b.../p-1444445395941.htm

Love the layout and those panels would look much better on my layout!    Russ

looks terrific guys keep up the good work

Very nice!

Peter

ChiloquinRuss posted:

For sticking on those plaster castings I use a product called structolite.  The problem I always had with hydrocal was how quickly it sets up and I end up throwing away more than I put  on the layout!  The other thing I really like about structolite is it has some texture to it.  The aggregate in the structolite I think is ground walnut shell or something similar.  Anyhow it makes the result very light and very strong, sort of like putting straw in the adobe when making bricks! Have a spray water bottle with 'wet' water in it, spritz the plaster wall, the underside of the casting, slather on some structolite on the casting and stick on the layout.  Then take a little structolite and force it in around the edges of the casting.  The grit in the structolite will give you a great look.  BTW it takes paint and scenery stuff really well. 

https://www.menards.com/main/b.../p-1444445395941.htm

Love the layout and those panels would look much better on my layout!    Russ

Structolite is great stuff. Highly recommended.

If any of you thought that I might have gone to sleep on my layout progress, you wouldn't be too far off.  Progress has slowed to a snail's pace lately.  

Yesterday I was at the monthly train show at the DuPage fairgrounds and was visiting with some of my train buddies.  I showed them some pictures of status of my plastering behind the curved stone arch bridge.  The comments I received were it looks pretty blah, too uniform, not enough fissures, and etc.  I explained that I was trying to achieve a Midwestern riverbank or hillside look. (whatever that is?)  I want it to be covered with grass, shrubs, and small trees with some rock outcroppings.

Here is what it looks like after the most recent layer of plaster over the plaster cloth base.  

The following pictures are pictures of real riverbanks that are close to what I am after.

Art

" I have been worrying too much about doing it right and need to "just do it."  

Art"

Truer words were never written.

Chugman posted:

...  The comments I received were it looks pretty blah, too uniform, not enough fissures, and etc.  I explained that I was trying to achieve a Midwestern riverbank or hillside look. (whatever that is?)  I want it to be covered with grass, shrubs, and small trees with some rock outcroppings...

 

If someone gives an opinion that tactlessly, I would politely ask to see pictures of THEIR layout.  9 times out of 10, that'll shut them up.

Anyone who is actively building a layout has my respect.

Keep up the great work, Art!  It looks very tedious work but just picture your Spencer Reefers going around that bend when it is completed!  

Your progress is looking good! 

As far as the comments go that you received, if I made a comment like that growing up I'd be instantly put to work "fixing" the problem...for free labor. Sounds to me like your friends just volunteered to donate some time!! . 

Art, I think things are looking food, go at your own pace! That way you get done the way you want and are one happy camper with the finished product! Keep up the good work, I think your updates are wonderful!!

 Art, I think once you add some more rocks and get them colored you can envision more of what it's going to look like. Unpainted plaster even with rock castings still has that blank canvas look. Once you get some color on the rocks and add  bushes and trees. It will start to come alive.

 If you are finding you need larger rock castings. Checkout. www.cripplebush.net   I've seen these at shows over the years and they look pretty good. Made out of rubber.  I just have no experience with them. They do offer a much larger footprint , are ready to place on the layout and you maybe able to match some of them up with the photos you posted.

Art, the photos of the "real thing" you are modeling puts what you are doing in context.  Perhaps your buddies didn't have the benefit of your goal.

Regardless, you are on the right path--keep going.

Thanks, guys.  

Art

Hi Art, this is a fantastic thread and educational with tips!  Thanks so much for keeping us posted.  The control panels are beautiful.  

Chugman posted:

Yesterday I was at the monthly train show at the DuPage fairgrounds and was visiting with some of my train buddies.  I showed them some pictures of status of my plastering behind the curved stone arch bridge.  The comments I received were it looks pretty blah, too uniform, not enough fissures, and etc.  I explained that I was trying to achieve a Midwestern riverbank or hillside look. (whatever that is?)  I want it to be covered with grass, shrubs, and small trees with some rock outcroppings.

Art

Art:

I agree with MALLARD4468: "If someone gives an opinion that tactlessly, I would politely ask to see pictures of THEIR layout."  I also agree that 9 times out of 10 it would tend to shut them up.  I will add, because I can be a caustic curmudgeon, that anyone who does  have a nice layout who criticizes someone else's isn't much of a friend.

I say this last part because we've all seen many layouts.  Some are charming, some are awe inspiring, some are haphazard and lazy, but the builder -- who's likely more of an operator -- seems happy so we leave it alone.  Others .... somehow .... miss the mark.  The bottom line is we all know how much work this takes and how many things can conspire to sabotage our original vision.  Because of this, if we see something that doesn't square with our own vision, we keep it to ourselves because we understand how much time and energy the guy has invested.  We also understand that what the guy is doing makes him happy.

That said, I can assure you, from what I've seen of your layout and vision, yours in the "awe-inspiring" category.  Once you finish out your riverbank/hillside following the prototype examples you've shown us, we'll be dazzled as much as we are by your bridges, fascia ... and everything else.

Please keep up the good work and please keep us posted.  

Steven J. Serenska

Art,

Some rock work suggestions:

1) Continue to work from photos

2) Ignore the riff raff comments and trust your eyes. 

3) Work SMALL sections at a time to get rock "timing" (speed at which you get your castings and surrounding filler to dry) and coloring down. Don't spread your work out unfinished and uncolored. That makes it harder.

4) Return to the photos and study. Color a casting BEFORE you set it on the hillside. Notice how many colors naturally exist in the rocks in your photos. Color the rocks sparingly and very little at a time. Work with bright light because when you get the casting on the hillside it will look MUCH darker than at your workbench. Some material is more absorptive than others so allow to dry before building up color.

5) DRYBRUSH Rock tips with white. You will be amazed how that brings out detail, BUT put dark stains into crevices first. DRYBRUSH last.

6) Avoid the same rock mold and size. Go to Bragdon's and get the large horizontal molds (two or three). Use an entire mold and apply. Then cast in the mold, break it up, and apply smaller pieces. Rotate and reverse.

7) Did I mention ignore the opinions of riff raff?

8) STUDY your photos !

9) Good luck

Eliot "Scrapiron" Scher

Art,

Mallard, Steven, and Elliot all have great advice!  I just want to reemphasize, I think you are doing a great job.  The naysayers should recognize what you showed them is a work in progress!  I'm more sensitive than most men, getting discouraged instead of mad at someone who criticizes.  I have to keep telling myself to ignore those who offer criticism that is not constructive.  Keep up the good work!  I'm looking forward to seeing how it goes!

Chugman posted:

Yesterday I was at the monthly train show at the DuPage fairgrounds and was visiting with some of my train buddies.  I showed them some pictures of status of my plastering behind the curved stone arch bridge.  The comments I received were it looks pretty blah, too uniform, not enough fissures, and etc.  I explained that I was trying to achieve a Midwestern riverbank or hillside look. (whatever that is?)  I want it to be covered with grass, shrubs, and small trees with some rock outcroppings.

The following pictures are pictures of real riverbanks that are close to what I am after.

Art

Very nice start Art! Guess you need better friends and quit going to that show

Mark Boyce posted:

Art,

..., getting discouraged instead of mad at someone who criticizes.  I have to keep telling myself to ignore those who offer criticism that is not constructive.  ...!

Decades ago, a woman who was active in the Kennedy Whitehouse, wrote a book, "A Guide to Excruciatingly Correct Behavior," and in it she addressed criticizing others. She said we should only criticize when asked to do so, and when asked, DON'T.

I've used that as my guide since I first heard her say that (not a simple task for a teacher).

So, I'm not criticizing (which is far different from constructive suggestions) others by saying that; I'm simply agreeing with you, Mark, and doing so publicly.

FrankM

Scrapiron Scher posted:

Art,

Some rock work suggestions:

1) Continue...

2) Ignore ... 

3) Work SMALL sections....

4) Return to the photos and study. ....

5) DRYBRUSH Rock tips with white.....

6) Avoid the same rock mold and size. ....

8) STUDY your photos !

9) Good luck

Eliot "Scrapiron" Scher

Now, this man - this artist - understands constructive suggestions!!!!!       FrankM.  IMO.

Frank,

You always have a great way of expressing yourself.  Yes, constructive expressions!  I like that term much better than constructive criticism, which I have heard since school days.  I agree too that I try to only offer it when asked, unless I see a dangerous situation - seldom the case.

Art, I really enjoy watching your progress. Scenery is tedious work. But I think after looking at your cliff and looking at the photos of what you want I believe that once you put your vegetation on you will have what you want. A very nice looking cliff............Paul

Well, we are all, after all, at-play here, on OGR, as well as when we are at our layouts.

When I was a kid in Duquesne , PA, we liked the kids who were fun to be with, whom we enjoyed. Those were the ones we asked to come out and play with us, again and again. We gravitated to the ones who understood our way of playing.

Those friendships I have carried with me to this day.        FrankM

Art,

In addition to the plaster impregnated sheets I mentioned earlier, I also use structolite for covering and creating additional features. However, for  the rock outcroppings, I like regular plaster of Paris best, for while not as hard as Hydrocal, it is less expensive and works juts fine.

Here are some of my rock outcroppings-

Keep up the good work!

Alex

PS. I painted the rocks using Jim Policastro's drybrush method. (Give credit where credit is due.)