@turkey_hollow_rr posted:I use AnyRail, does Scarm have electrical isolators? You could create a copy of your plan and use it to mark up blocks and also where the connection would be for each block.
I dont see any! Sorry
There are a few ways in SCARM one could mark blocks and such:
1) Add Text (CTRL + t ) then left Click where you want to place the text then type
2) Draw a geometric shape(s) using the Figures Library
3) Use color coded track sections to denote connections and/or blocks and Power Districts.
I believe I see what @PRR1950 was referring to, I'm having a little trouble seeing track joints. The longest run is up to that upper level siding. To avoid the "5 or 6 joint rule" the next two longest runs are to the middle of the front curves on the upper level. On both sides, the block would run from the opening, straight through the first set of switches (isolate the turnouts) back around to the next switch on either side. On the left that is the switch were your lower track meets the upper level, on the right it's the first switch facing the front. It looks like you can wire the front half of the lower section in similar locations. There is a block on the upper level on the right side that completes the loopback. So there's 5 blocks/connections and the front half is wired.
Is your opening hinged? If so you can wire it to the tracks on the hinge side with a terminal strip connection, like a jumper wire, and piggy back on the adjacent blocks. Not nearly as noisy as a track joint.
Mike,
My post is only looking at the upper track and the incline from the opening to the upper level.
I loaded this as an image and attempted to mark it up as close to a joint as I can get. The red lines are isolation points, the black X's are drop locations for each block. I don't know any particulars about the opening so I just put a red line down the middle of it.
I also place a TIU label approximately where I think yours is located assuming you will have terminal strips close by. Your runs will be from this area to each black X.
Attachments
Images (1)
WOW Dan thank you so much! Looks like that should be easy enough to get it done!
Dan, that’s a nice job!
Thanks for your kindness, Mark and Mike, and thanks also for the opportunity to share some of what I've learned through OGR. Fortunately, Mike's layout can be carved up fairly simply or I would probably be over my head. Mike's selection of long pieces also helps to keep from getting stupidly small blocks.
The lower level track on the right side can be similarly divided back to the beginning of the yard. Sectional track in curves usually need a drop right in the middle so the curve on the lower left is pretty much defined.
I'm guessing that will be an engine shed at the end of the wye on the lower left, and will those tracks also be switched on and off? Looks like that branch can be isolated at the turnout leading to the wye.
That will get things narrowed down to the yard. I'll get something marked up later this afternoon.
Sorry, but personally, I disagree with Dan's approach; way too many segments for just one long loop. I would just treat each loop as a separate operation by cutting the rising segment just past the yellow switch where the rise starts and then add another cut at the green switch where the rise meets the upper level loop. Now, your 2 loops can be run independently, as can the rising segment. For any sidings you want to be able to shut down, just cut that track right after the switch. (For track planning purposes, you might add a double-ended siding along the rising segment so trains can go up or down at the same time.)
In his green loop suggestions, Dan seems to be putting cuts into the reversing loops like formerly needed in 2-rail DC powering (exclusive of DCC or other newer innovations). Those are not needed in 3-rail operation.
If you're worried that the loops are still too "big," just add more power feeds around each loop off of the same TIU power for that loop.
Chuck
By all means Chuck! There's a right way, a wrong way, and there's my way.
This is how I wired my layout. I'm simply counting track connections. I've never used DCC, but I understand the DCS technology and the reasons behind the recommendations for using blocks. If the number of blocks is troubling the option to solder across track joints is always there.
You are welcome to wire your layout how you wish but I believe some of your recommendations are just not correct for DCS.
Mike,
Here's my interpretation for the lower level. There is a red smudge on the two switches you recently added so ignore that. The isolation is between those two switches where they connect the two yard tracks, and the upper switch is part of the block from the curve on the left to switch all the way to the right. The yard wiring I suggest will work but may not be what you want for operating.
Attachments
Images (1)
@turkey_hollow_rr posted:Mike,
Here's my interpretation for the lower level. There is a red smudge on the two switches you recently added so ignore that. The isolation is between those two switches where they connect the two yard tracks, and the upper switch is part of the block from the curve on the left to switch all the way to the right. The yard wiring I suggest will work but may not be what you want for operating.
Hi Dan, thank you very much! I have more drops then what you so already on my layout I am changing to the new one. So that is not going to be a problem for me. I had more interest where to put the block isolations. As far as I can tell it looks like it will work very well!
My pleasure, Mike. This wiring should support achieving high DCS signal quality. Please post back with details of how you connect the TIU channels to the four amp channels, and how you finished up. I doubt I'll ever use more than two channels, maybe a third for conventional. I'm not familiar with the ZW either.
I'm no expert, I only play on on the forum, but my early instructions were for DCS RRs to isolate all rails of each block and directly feed non bundled twisted star wiring with two single wires directly from power source to each block attaching to just one end of it. Not in the middle.
Do those instructions from a long time ago still hold true?
I read so many comments of folks who do not use that pattern yet claim strong readings?? Perhaps other variables at play??
Tom I have no idea, I know my current layout is just a standard wiring with lots of drops and I have no problem with signals! Mostly 10's all the way around.
Hi Tom,
I am a late adapter of DCS having bought into the equipment in the last 3 years so I'm unfamiliar with the recommendation to also isolate the ground rails. Seems like it would work, I think it is maybe extra work for little gain as the signal will follow the shortest path, for the most part. It could be part of a solution in some cases.
The main goal is to avoid any duplication (reflections) of the DCS packets on the power rail so in theory we isolate the track at length short of where signal propagation might result in the ghosting of packets, and degrade signal integrity. I believe this is why the DSC Companion recommends blocks no longer that 100 feet.
But we also have to contend with electrically noisy track connections which negatively impact packet detection by increasing the noise, so DSC Companion recommends 5 or 6 track joints as a limit for passing the DSC signal through. The DCS companion also recommends keeping blocks to not more than 12 track sections. My interpretation of that spec is that it applies in two directions from the source, the power rail drop in the block.
If there is a terminal strip on the output of the TIU channel, as it seems most of us do, then that is a split in the signal that affects every block attached to it. That seems like the nucleus of the star to me.
These are my thoughts as to how I follow the DCS recommendations. It is a conservative approach. I will not claim this is the only way to get things to work.
BTW, I love seeing pictures of your work.
Keep in mind that DCS equates packet acknowledgement counts to signal strength. I think 80 packets out of 100 is a 10(?).
Actually, I believe that 10 out of 10 is a 10. If all of the queries don't get a return packet, the signal strength is reported as a percentage of the successful packets.
I'm sure you know the correct numbers, John. Thanks for keeping me straight. I always have a hard time finding that in the Companion.
I'm also correcting my thoughts on the reason for the 100 feet is packet propagation delay.
Well, not to argue the point since it's kind of academic, but I did find this in the Companion under Wiring Considerations, DCS signal strength.
Paraphrasing,
"87-100 packets equates to a DCS signal strength of 10, 80-86 equates to a 9, and so on."
and
"nearly all DCS commands will operate just fine when the DCS signal strength is 7 or higher"
This actually shows that it is robust and why it works when it seems like it shouldn't.
