LC+ or another RTR set

Since kids now have phones surgically attached, Bluetooth would be a must. They don't seem as excited with a remote as with their phone.

2 cents

GVDobler posted:

Since kids now have phones surgically attached, Bluetooth would be a must. They don't seem as excited with a remote as with their phone.

2 cents

Amen to that.  I just got involved in O and I refuse to buy a Lionel engine that doesn't have Bluetooth.  I think it's where the whole hobby is headed and MTH better get on board soon!

With regard to your question.  I think you should get another Bluetooth set.  You personally might get a bigger kick out of a LC+ engine with some better sounds and details.  But if you get a set, you'll have a new engine and more track and more rolling stock.  That means more play time for the kiddo.  Good luck!

Thanks fore the opinions. I guess my bottom line question really is.

Based on sound alone, is LC+ that much better than an RTR engine, to justify the price difference.

I don't own either but have played with the new steamers a little at the LHS and I really like the newer Berks and Mikados.  Nice engines, nice smoke, and good sounds. 

"Phones surgically attached"

Oh, that's going in the act!

Thanks GVDOBLER

If sound is that important, you will hopefully be able to sample it at a local hobby shop.  If not, I'd advise another set.  Lots more play value and value for money if you're just doing the carpet central thing.  When your grandchild is older (or you are ), you can spring for some turnouts and an LC+ loco, maybe an operating accessory or two, if finances, space and other resident people permit.

GVDobler posted:

Since kids now have phones surgically attached, Bluetooth would be a must. They don't seem as excited with a remote as with their phone.

2 cents

Pretty much seems to be the case these days! I got the the LC+ w/Bluetooth Polar Express to run around my Christmas tree this past holiday season and I sure thought it performed well ad was a whole lot of fun (controlled with my iPhone). Have another LC+ w/Bluetooth engine scheduled to arrive today and will give it a spin on my new under-construction train room layout. The iPhone/Bluetooth control capability was a BIG hit with our visitors over the holiday period...young and old alike. And it's not just kids who appear to have smartphones surgically attached these days.

Allan Miller posted:

GVDobler posted:

Since kids now have phones surgically attached, Bluetooth would be a must. They don't seem as excited with a remote as with their phone.

2 cents

Pretty much seems to be the case these days! I got the the LC+ w/Bluetooth Polar Express to run around my Christmas tree this past holiday season and I sure thought it performed well ad was a whole lot of fun (controlled with my iPhone). Have another LC+ w/Bluetooth engine scheduled to arrive today and will give it a spin on my new under-construction train room layout. The iPhone/Bluetooth control capability was a BIG hit with our visitors over the holiday period...young and old alike. And it's not just kids who appear to have smartphones surgically attached these days.

Alan, has Lionel produced an uncataloged LC+ Bluetooth edition P.E. rtr set not offered to the general public? I myself got a rtr Lionchief P.E. Bluetooth set this past Christmas but it had a Lionchief engine, not a LC+ engine. OGR forumites have been clamoring and lobbying for a P.E. LC+ Bluetooth engine and IMHO, it's time for Lionel to offer that engine to P.E. enthusiasts.

ogaugeguy posted:

Alan, has Lionel produced an uncataloged LC+ Bluetooth edition P.E. rtr set not offered to the general public? I myself got a rtr Lionchief P.E. Bluetooth set this past Christmas but it had a Lionchief engine, not a LC+ engine. OGR forumites have been clamoring and lobbying for a P.E. LC+ Bluetooth engine and IMHO, it's time for Lionel to offer that engine to P.E. enthusiasts.

There is not a LC+ Polar Express.  I suspect that was a typo by Allan.  All sets are LC with Bluetooth.  LC+ are all separate sale locomotives as of now.

If you have minimal equipment, I'd buy a RTR set, as that will also give you a few more items of rolling stock. If you're set in the rolling stock category, I'd look at the LC+ (that's the direction I'm also looking into) as speed control is much easier, and the ability to uncouple from the remote is a nice option as well.

In my opinion, the MTH Starter sets are an incredible value... awesome realistic sounds...smoke unit...flashing ditch lights... here is an example...  there are many  others as well.... mind you I am fully in the tank  with MTH... I only own  a Lionel Bluetooth Polar Express set ...its fun... but the quality is very, very, cheap  IMO....!  Also realize I have no real nostalgia for Lionel....I grew up with N Scale ....LOL  ...Buy what makes you happy ultimately!  Enjoy the trains with your grandson...precious memories for him.

https://www.trainworld.com/man...rn-first-responders/

Go with LC+, engine only or complete set.  Forget the LC unless you can get it very cheap.

Steve

RideTheRails posted:

Go with LC+, engine only or complete set.  Forget the LC unless you can get it very cheap.

Steve

+1 on this. I'd stick with the LC+ offerings. As mentioned Lionel has really stepped up their game with the some of new LC+ locos, steam and diesel.

Oh boy, I can see that it looks like the MTH starter sets are of better quality engines. Do both systems use 18v DC. Not to sure about running two different control systems just on a carpet central, the MTH looks more complex. Would also need transition track pieces to go from fastrack to realtrax. Then would also have to get a hand held controller, cant use my wifes iphone all the time, I am old school carry a flip phone. 

Thanks for the idea, will look into it a bit more.

OldMike

"Do both systems use 18v DC. Not to sure about running two different control systems just on a carpet central, the MTH looks more complex. Would also need transition track pieces to go from fastrack to realtrax. Then would also have to get a hand held controller, cant use my wifes iphone all the time, I am old school carry a flip phone. "

There's no compatibility problem voltage-wise, or command signal-wise between the MTH and Lionel systems.  MTH's system is called DCS and the locomotive system is called Protosounds 3 (PS3).  They operate in conventional mode (vary the voltage) or with a smart device (iOS or Android) or with the DCS system (about $300).  Lionel actually has three systems, all of which work together seamlessly. The inexpensive LC set locos and LC+ separate sale locos use a command system that is simple but reliable.  You use the remote that comes with every set or loco.  Or the universal remote that controls locos with Bluetooth or LC/LC+. Newer Lionel LC and LC+ locos also have Bluetooth.  The upscale Lionel system is called Legacy (about $350) and new Legacy locos can be controlled by Legacy or Bluetooth, or in conventional mode. LC locos do not function in conventional mode, but LC+ do.  This sounds more complex than it is, and is Lionel's approach to providing command control, multiple remotes, etc. inexpensively.

You will need a smart device (iOS or Android phone or tablet) to operate the MTH set.  There is no other method of control included (unlike LC or LC+, where every set or loco comes with a dedicated remote).  Not a big deal for most folks, but spending $400 for a set and having to provide your own control device(s) is not everyone's cup of tea.

I would stick with Fastrack, which comes in every Lionel set, and is generally accepted to be a higher quality product, and you have some of it already. 

Another thing to consider is value.  The MTH set's value is in the quality of the locomotives and rolling stock. MTH sets have higher quality locomotives and rolling stock, in general,  and thus are priced accordingly, $100-200  higher than the cheapest Lionel sets in most cases.  You absolutely need a smart device for the new MTH sets,  as without one you cannot access the set loco in command mode and benefit from the PS3 system.  There is no method of control, remote or conventional, included in an MTH set these days.  If finances are a major consideration, that additional $100-200 can be spent on additional track, an operating accessory or two,  or additional rolling stock.  

For more advanced hobbyists, having both the DCS/PS3 system from MTH and the Lionel system (Legacy) is worth the total $700-800 investment.  For many, myself included,  the inexpensive command system using LC and LC+ locos that come with the included remotes, or purchasing the $50 universal remote to control 3 locos, and/or Bluetooth provides more than enough function and good value.  

There's no rush to make a decision, I'd guess.

 OldMike,

   Much as I hate to admit it, the kid today do like controlling their trains from the phone. Get the Bluetooth in any engine you & your Grand kids happen to like.  In this manner you can run both with the regular remote control and the bluetooth also.

PCRR/Dave

Landsteiner thanks, very comprehensive explanation. I think I will stick with LC or LC+ engines, for carpet central. Can find very very good deals right now on LC+ non bluetooth , GP20 or GP38, or if I want bluetooth can ride about 3 miles and visit pop Henning. At this point LC+ with bluetooth is about 100 bucks more.

I also suspect grandson won't care if LC or LC+. LC starter sets can be found on ebay for a reasonable price. I also notice many of the shops are breaking out the engine and controller and selling separate from the rest of the set, I guess that is a way to make more money. 

Perhaps have answered my own question after discussion. For now go with another starter set.

Thanks all. 

MartyE posted:

There is not a LC+ Polar Express.  I suspect that was a typo by Allan.  All sets are LC with Bluetooth.  LC+ are all separate sale locomotives as of now.

Correct! Just typing too fast and having a hard time (at times) keeping all the LC, LC+, LC w/Bluetooth, TMCC, LEGACY, etc. stuff organized in my aging mind.

Whatever it is, the PE set I bought for Christmas (since the MTH CP RailKing stuff did not arrive in time) was quite nice. Had it set up under a large tree in our currently unheated sunroom and left it out there from after Thanksgiving through the lend of the second week of January. Was not sure how things would hold up in the sometimes bitter cold, but everything survived in good shape. I controlled the train via iPhone through the very thick and heavy sliding doors that separate the sunroom from our living room. Even had the wall unit connected to a timer that I could turn off and on without entering the cold sunroom.

I ended up buying the New York Central RTR set. It is none bluetooth. 

While running the bluetooth train yesterday the grandson of course wanted to run it on the iphone, go figure.

This will be enough for carpet central for a bit, have to now expand the track just a little as to not

annoy the wife too much, this is set up in a corner of the living room.

Grandson plays with it every time he comes and that is about twice a week.  He has a ball and

wants more track.

Thanks Old Mike

To answer your question about the sound quality between a RTR and LC+ set:

The newer LC+ Locos w/Bluetooth have far superior sound quality to the older ready to run sets.  With that being said, some of the newer RTR Sets offer their Locos with Bluetooth.  The newer RTR Locos with Bluetooth are just as good in sound quality as the newer LC+ Locos with Bluetooth.

Oh well the NYC is an older RTR set, I have watched youtube videos and it is ok. By the way if anyone needs a  steam pennsylvania flyer RTR set with bluetooth the current amazon price is very very good. 

Old Mike

 Next time

The LC+ won't be useless if the BT device isn't charged or around. Teaching Jr the phones are a fun tool, but not always a necessity or "cure all' might be good for him

While I buy mostly MTH engines now, and run them off the new DCS Explorer, I have a carpet empire that has different loops and I run LC, LC+ and MTH together.  I'm a real fan of Lionel's starter sets and find that starter sets in general are a great way to build your empire quickly.

I will say that the LC sets are greatly improved by Bluetooth. You can set loco features like sound volume and smoke on/off, as well as engine momentum and it does make a huge difference in their performance.

I do think there's wisdom in buying these sets off of Amazon, especially if you are a Prime member and don't have a LHS. I have had more than one set bad out of the box, and the returns at Amazon are free and zero hassle.

I'll be adding the LIRR and Santa Fe LC sets to my RR empire when they come out. But I'll also continue to buy MTH RailKing engines. The sound is fantastic and the features a great value for the price. I prefer RailKing over LC+, although both have their place.

Good luck and have fun!