LCCA NEEDS YOUR HELP WITH FAST TRACK ASAP!

The Glancy Trains Modular Group uses Fastrack. I will let our club president know so he can contact you.

quote:

Originally posted by Lucas Liska:
The Glancy Trains Modular Group uses Fastrack. I will let our club president know so he can contact you.

thank you so much!

I'm interested in FasTrack modules and think it would be neat to build one (or more) and participate in the big meet planned by Lionel. I'm just wondering if there are other module standards that have been decided other than the track being used. What sort of time frame are we looking at for determining the standards and having modules built and ready?

quote:

Originally posted by JohnS:
I just built new modules for OCSMR. they are 2 x 4 and do not have the fastrack attached. we plan on setting up the modules in the shape we want and then putting the track down. this eliminates alignment problems between modules and lets us set up a unique layout each time. easch module is constructed like a stress skin panel with 3/4 ply ribs and 1.4 ply skins top and bottom, so it is extremely light weight, flat and easy to transport.

This isn't intended as a criticism... Is there a problem with module alignment when the modules are built to spec? If the module isn't built to spec., then it isn't usable with the rest of the club's. Right?

Take a look at this webpage and downloadable PDF file...
http://home.vicnet.net.au/~vnsc/austrak.htm
http://users.picknowl.com.au/~...ale/austrakm2WEB.pdf

I believe they are doing in N-scale exactly what you're wanting to do with FrasTrack.

Mark from Glancy Trains Modular Group is an expert in Fastrack modules. He posts on this forum as SPIKE, his email is in his profile.

Our group probably has one of the largest Fastrack modular layouts in the country.

This sounds like FUN! Please keep us informed.

Gunny

our club (piedmont-triad model railroaders club) also uses fastrack on our modular layout. the track is permanently attached to each module. we connect each module with a 10" track section. on each module, the track is set back 5" from the edge of the module. we haven't had any alignment problems with fastrack when we are setting up our modules for a show...............rogerw.

So to summarize, there are two parts to this project:

1) LCCA and Lionel want to talk to modular Fastrack users to design a modular set of specs specific to Fastrack.... "ASAP" suggests the need for speed!

2) The specs, once published, will provide a set of guidelines for anyone who wants to participate by building a module to the provided specs, and then go "somewhere VERY SPECIAL" to hook 'em all up.

At this point, it appears to me that Lou is asking for info to put together the first part.

As Gunny said, "This sounds like FUN! Please keep us informed."

Just my $.02,

Ed

Hi Lou, I think this could be alot of fun. I will send Dennise an e-mail to count me in. My only concern would be if the modual size requirements will allow me to fit one in my car.

Lou,

Do you know if anything has been nailed down yet as far as requirements go other than the requirement to use FasTrack?

Does, indeed, sound like a fun undertaking! Would also make a good feature for the magazine once things get underway.

I read Lou's post as a sort of exploratory initiative to see what modular standards might work best and to gauge the level of interest in such a project. It will be interesting to see how it develops.

It would be helpful if folks knew more about any time limitation involved because that information would certainly be useful to individuals who may wish to participate.

quote:

Originally posted by LOU CAPONI:

All those who build modules will be invited to lash up somehwere VERY SPECIAL in the country which lionel will determine.

This is a BIG country. My "module hauling" is limited to a 2 hour drive.

Good point there, Joe! I think folks here really do need some more specifics in order to make an informed decision about participating.

Somewhat recent stat: 50% of US population is located within a 500 mile radius of Cleveland Ohio. Have to think it practical to be sensitive to that region for max turnout.

Also, according to various RR mag advertising staffs, most model and prototype RR magazine subscriptions are in the North East quarter of the USA.

Check out where most of the train shows are.

This is one event that will not happen in Vegas! tt

The first step is to get input from experienced modular layout builders. Take the lessons learned and try to establish a design standard for a national fast track modular layout. We will need to establish a standard fairly quickly. It is our intentions to have the first sections of this layout to be operational at our 42nd LCCA Annual convention to be held in Norfolk VA during the week of 7-23-12.

We are working with Lionel and we believe this will develop into a very large and fun project. We are not trying to offend or exclude anyone. Thank you for your suggestions and contributions. Please contact Dennis Devito at dennisdevito@comast.net if you have suggestions on the best modular layout standard practices. We understand everyone will not agree,and have different opinions about what is best, but we will welcome your inputs. Thank you, and let's have some fun!

Al K.

We were originally going to go with FastTrack on our new modules, we only switched to Gargraves to support dual-gauge and really wide radi.

For this type of project I would suggest that once you have a design that will support 2 - 3 main lines that a metal template is created that is used to align the track centers from the center rail of the outer track. These could be CNC'd and mailed to anyone who needs one. This will allow modules of different shapes to be connected. I would also suggest that the track stop 5" short of the edge of the module and use either a 10" spanner or 5" conversion piece (to allow butting the tracks together). The spanner would help if the track between module is not perfectly aligned.

Also use Anderson Power Pole connectors for electrical connections.
If consenus on connectors is not made at least have everyone build pigtales with one end of bare wire to allow the use of wire nuts.

The Independent Hirailers groups seem to be one of the more wide spread standards, especially in the North East part of the country. My experienec with this standard is the Queen City Hirailers in Cincinnati, OH. The use of this unified standard allows fo the possibility of very large layouts.

I also belong to the PNR 4th Division of the NMRA, with a very sucessful record of public appeal at Northwest US train shows.

The Glancy group is the one Fastrack group of which I am aware. I have not seen their layout.

Either of these could be used as a base for starting a standard fo modules or operation.

How to build each module is probably an individual choice, with a wide range of what people think is best.

I would build a few modules if a useful and compatible standard is developed and there is enough interest to make the use of those modules for longer period of time.

I posed the question of a Fastrack yahoo group a couple of year agoo and there was not interest.

Jerry Chose

There is a Yahoo FasTrack Group, and I posted a link to this thread on their site earlier this morning.

One immediate question that comes to mind is the track spacing to be used module to module.
Would it be the standard (not very prototypical) 6" C-C that is inherent to FasTrack?
Or something more prototypical, such as 4"?

Rod

Hi Allen,

Forgive my lack of clarity ( and bad spelling)!

As a member of the Fastrack yahoo group, I posted a suggestion about developing a standard and forming a Fastrack modular group. With exception of the Glancy group, little or no interest was expressed.

Speaking for myself, it only makes sense to build modules if there is a future for the use of said modules. The modules I have that have built to the PNR standard, have been used at approx 150 train shows over a period of 15 years.

Jerry chose

Rod brought up a great question on spacing. Hopefully it will be the more prototypical 4" +/- than the 6.

LCCA shoudl really try tp engage the Yahoo Fast Track group. They have a good archive of specs on fast track layout design, spacing (tight and 6") helix and yard design with calulators. Very helpful folks.


Chris

quote:

Forgive my lack of clarity ( and bad spelling)!

No problem at all, Jerry! We'll both just have to see what kind of interest it might generate over on the Yahoo Groups site.

Once some standards for the modules themselves are established (with FasTrack advantages and limitations in mind), there should be no problem in using FasTrack to create a fine and expansive modular display.

quote:

Originally posted by jc3rai;:
As a member of the Fastrack yahoo group, I posted a suggestion about developing a standard and forming a Fastrack modular group. With exception of the Glancy group, little or no interest was expressed.

I must have missed it. I get those articles e-mailed to me and don't always keep up. Maybe you could send a note out periodically to try to drum up interest. I am interested in a modular group but I want to be sure anything I build fits into my overall plan.

To me the big stumbling block is what "standard" you want to establish/follow.

quote:

Originally posted by jc3rai;:
Speaking for myself, it only makes sense to build modules if there is a future for the use of said modules. The modules I have that have built to the PNR standard, have been used at approx 150 train shows over a period of 15 years.

Jerry chose

If I build a module, I am going to build one (or more) with the plan of how they hook up to my home layout firmly in mind. That way, I don't have to cart them to meets to get use out of them.

Whatever standard is adapted, it would be nice for it to account for those that want to be a bit more adventurous with the scenery and/or operating accessories.

quote:

To me the big stumbling block is what "standard" you want to establish/follow.

That, of course, is the determining criterion. In my initial venture back into the model railroading hobby I was a member of Ntrak--true pioneers in modular model railroading. They developed widely adopted standards that were used around the world (probably still are) and it was amazing how many huge and smooth operating layouts they constructed at various shows and NMRA national conventions.

Their standards were exacting, well-defined, and comprehensive, and they worked like a charm for that small-scale (N scale) application. If you start with that kind of clear and straightforward thinking, it makes everything so much easier.

And I also agree that the ability to scenic modules is absolutely critical. They don't necessarily have to be elaborate, but they sure need to be a whole lot more than just bare or even painted plywood. The scenes are what attract and hold a viewer's interest, and what demonstrate the various approaches that might be taken.

quote:

Originally posted by Allan Miller:
In my initial venture back into the model railroading hobby I was a member of Ntrak--true pioneers in modular model railroading. They developed widely adopted standards that were used around the world (probably still are) and it was amazing how many huge and smooth operating layouts they constructed at various shows and NMRA national conventions.

Their standards were exacting, well-defined, and comprehensive, and they worked like a charm for that small-scale (N scale) application. If you start with that kind of clear and straightforward thinking, it makes everything so much easier.

The Ntrak approach is great. Starting with their specs and adapting for FasTrack in particular and O-Gauge/Scale in general would not be a bad way to start.

Something else that would make this layout more interesting would be to take real operations into account. Picking up and dropping off cuts of cars gives an opportunity to add interest and educate the visitors as to what trains do and why they exist in 1:1 scale.

I am not a member of a modular club but I am a dedicated Fastrack user.

IMO...
Modules should be no longer than 40 inches long by 30 inches wide. This size should be fairly easy for one person to transport in the backseat or trunk of a car. It also allows for 3 sections to be fastened to the module (per parallel track) using regular 10 inch sections as module joiners.
But what about the corners?
Specific corner modules must be built too. You've got to have at least 4 and the owners of the corners have to be highly dedicated and reliable. What would you do if one of your corner modules didn't show up to the meet?
I would love to be part of a 3 rail modular group but there are none near me.

Some modules can be owned by the group collectively. So, you have the critical components show up every time and build from there. Hopefully, the members that sign up are responsible and you can plan the module configuration/setup in advance.

hey flash!! our club owns the corner modules. the straight modules are owned by the individual members. the corner modules are stored at my home. whenever we have a show, we can be sure that all of the corner modules will be there.............rogerw.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that a plan to set up a modular standard, should start by looking at a successful model. Based on what I have seen, I would choose the standard create by the Independent Hirailer group and modify this as required to accomodate Fastrack.

I suggest going to www.hirailers.org look under the heading TECHNICAL, scroll down and look at the PDF files under various headings.

The Independent Hirail format has been covered in several OGR issues starting on about 2007 (issue with a ship on the cover).

Based on my own experience with two modular groups- to look for a consensus is likely to get no where fast. Form a small group to formulate a proposal and go from there.

Jerry Chose

An EXCELLENT suggestion from Mr. Chose, above!!! If you also don't follow a standard, tried and true electrical wiring "standard system", you will have all sorts of issues with TMCC/Legacy depending on the building you set-up & display in. Not to mention, in the remote possibility someone brings an MTH locomotive to run, you will never get DCS to work (probably not high on your lists of concerns though).

That's a bad link. The comma shouldn't be in there. If you edit your post, people will be able to click the link directly.

I'm for looking at existing successful standards (like Ntrak) and seeing what works and what doesn't. Before diving into that though, you need to look at what you want to accomplish with your modules. For example, if you want your modules to connect seamlessly, you need to account for several things in advance. If you want command control, you have to wire appropriately. Need fast setup and takedown? That will drive aspects of how the modules are built and track laid. Simply switching out one type of track and going to another from an existing spec without considering your "givens and druthers" is like trying to build a basement sized empire without a track plan or any plan. It won't get you where you want to go.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Water:
An EXCELLENT suggestion from Mr. Chose, above!!! If you also don't follow a standard, tried and true electrical wiring "standard system", you will have all sorts of issues with TMCC/Legacy depending on the building you set-up & display in. Not to mention, in the remote possibility someone brings an MTH locomotive to run, you will never get DCS to work (probably not high on your lists of concerns though).

Rules for motive power and rolling stock need to be part of any requirements.

quote:

...to look for a consensus is likely to get no where fast. Form a small group to formulate a proposal and go from there.

Absolutely! Find a small core group of experienced modular participants (preferably from a variety of clubs unless there is one that already has everything you need)) and rely on those folks to hash out the good, the bad, and the ugly (what doesn't work very well) for what you are trying to achieve.

Do NOT fall into the trap of trying to be everything to everyone because that definitely will lead to trouble, and possibly even to failure.

It ain't rocket science, but too large a group of "organizers" will certainly lead you to believe that it is.

quote:

Originally posted by JohnS:

quote:

Originally posted by Flash:
I am not a member of a modular club but I am a dedicated Fastrack user.


But what about the corners?
.

the modules I designed above use the same piece for a corner as a straight. there is a key fastened to the side of the module that will be at the end of the run so you can connect the next piece at a right angle and keep going to the next corner. see pic 3. the key can be attached to any module, so you don.t have to worry if the guy with the corners shows up . of course this system only works if you lay the track after the modules are erected as we do.

That's why I like your design. It's very FreeMO.

quote:

Originally posted by Allan Miller:

And I also agree that the ability to scenic modules is absolutely critical. They don't necessarily have to be elaborate, but they sure need to be a whole lot more than just bare or even painted plywood. The scenes are what attract and hold a viewer's interest, and what demonstrate the various approaches that might be taken.

Very true! What's the use of a very large modular layout if you're only looking at more feet of painted plywood?
I have a fully scenic'd Drive-In Movie that some of you may have seen at York. It was designed to fit on a 4' long 3-track module. Most of a modular layout, IMO, should be limited to 3 tracks to allow for interesting scenics. About a quarter can be many tracks for yards/staging area.

I would hope that Lionel's involvement does not limit the buildings, etc. to Lionel products.

All,
My Dad and I operate a sectional G and O gauge layout at local train shows. Although the track is laid down each time the modular concept applies to the bridges, tables etc.
One thing I've found is that over complicating things doesn't help - KISS method of construction, wiring, etc is key when you start talking about large numbers of people.
One other thing, I own a DCS system, but don't use it for the display layout - why - well - its small enough that only one train need operate at a time and after the TIU died on me mid-show one show, I went back to conventional and haven't looked back.
Obviously if you're talking about a layout that is as large as a small (or large) warehouse you'd have sufficient room for multiple trains on each loop.
One group I used to be involved with (New Hampshire Garden Railway Society) had a member who brought a pair of 'inside corners' in effect allowing a horseshoe shaped layout and making 'Big Green' (that was the layout's nickname) fairly unique amongst modular G scale layouts in the Northeast.
-Joey
Chief Electrical Officer
Souadabscook and Penobscot Valley

quote:

Originally posted by Joe Hohmann:

quote:

Originally posted by Allan Miller:

And I also agree that the ability to scenic modules is absolutely critical. They don't necessarily have to be elaborate, but they sure need to be a whole lot more than just bare or even painted plywood. The scenes are what attract and hold a viewer's interest, and what demonstrate the various approaches that might be taken.

Very true! What's the use of a very large modular layout if you're only looking at more feet of painted plywood?
I have a fully scenic'd Drive-In Movie that some of you may have seen at York. It was designed to fit on a 4' long 3-track module. Most of a modular layout, IMO, should be limited to 3 tracks to allow for interesting scenics. About a quarter can be many tracks for yards/staging area.

I would hope that Lionel's involvement does not limit the buildings, etc. to Lionel products.

In the Glancy club, there isn't any scenery permanently attached to the modules. Members have the options to create individual scenery modules to fit on the layout and those are just set in place for the shows. Right now we have a whole town with a trolley which runs off towards a rural station and a small construction site(?). We also have an awesome looking farm, a wind powered power station with the operating wind turbines (activated by buttons mounted in the front of the layout modules). The layout is set up so operating accessories can be plugged into the back of the layout and activated by the permanent buttons on the front side.

Anyway, NOT having any permanent scenery makes transportation a whole lot easier. We have a rack in the trailer that all the sections just slide into. You still have to be careful but it's a lot easier to do.