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I'm getting ready to LED my R40 Slant subway set. I did my R32 set already and while it looks great, there's a few issues I hope to fix. The first and biggest is running them on DC. Currently, I just run my LEDs on AC while it works well, they do give off (at least IMO) a bit more heat then they should, on two of the four cars, the shells are developing little indents due to the heat. No fun. I do NOT want that to happen to my R40. I'd like to keep the flickering on the cars since the real cars flicker over switches and the like. I'd use @gunrunnerjohn's lighting board since I run DCS but would there be a way to remove the capacitor (or install a smaller one) so the flicker will stay? The next issue is when I did the end lights in the powered car, when stopped, they do dim a very slight bit, not enough that you could really tell but if you look at it directly after it stops, you can see the change. Almost like the car has rule 17 lighting. I run the set at 18v but if I turn the voltage down a hair (to 17v) that goes away. Thanks for the help. 

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I've mounted LED's directly to the shells of countless passenger cars, 50-60 of mine, and more of customers.  Running them at reasonable intensity, I've never felt them even get warm, much less how enough to deform the shell!  Unless you bought the high-power LED strips, I don't know how you get them hot enough to actually melt the plastic!  Here's an 18" MTH Premier car light with 25ma total power to the LED strip.  There is zero danger of anything melting here.  How bright are those LEDs to melt the shell???

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@RailRide posted:

Are your LED strips stuck directly onto the shell? I was looking at doing this for mine, but planned to mount them loosely, retained by the bracket that held the original incandescent lights. I believe the 600-LED strips (each group of three has smaller spacing) line up rather well with the gaps in the bracket.

---PCJ

Yes, I mount them direct to the shell.

I've mounted LED's directly to the shells of countless passenger cars, 50-60 of mine, and more of customers.  Running them at reasonable intensity, I've never felt them even get warm, much less how enough to deform the shell!  Unless you bought the high-power LED strips, I don't know how you get them hot enough to actually melt the plastic!  Here's an 18" MTH Premier car light with 25ma total power to the LED strip.  There is zero danger of anything melting here.  How bright are those LEDs to melt the shell???

I'm not sure how bright they are. They look great but they do get very warm. I used a different brand of strip (I typically use the LE brand from Amazon) on the R32 set. Obviously, the damage is already done but if I replaced the strip with the LE brand, would they not get as hot? 

You have to control the current to the LEDs for consistent results.  My guess is if they're getting as hot as you say, they're running at way more than the maximum rating of common LED strips.  Without knowing specifically what you have, it's hard to say what they're rated power is.

FWIW, I have really bright LEDs on my workbench, they are much higher current than the common 300 LED 5 meter strips, and they do get fairly warm in operation.  Since they're stuck to a wood shelf, there's little danger of anything melting.  However, I suspect those might deform a plastic shell if they were stuck directly to it.

You have to control the current to the LEDs for consistent results.  My guess is if they're getting as hot as you say, they're running at way more than the maximum rating of common LED strips.  Without knowing specifically what you have, it's hard to say what they're rated power is.

FWIW, I have really bright LEDs on my workbench, they are much higher current than the common 300 LED 5 meter strips, and they do get fairly warm in operation.  Since they're stuck to a wood shelf, there's little danger of anything melting.  However, I suspect those might deform a plastic shell if they were stuck directly to it.

True. I think I'll go in and pull them and replace with the LE brand, they definitely don't get as hot. Heres some photos of the cars. You can see the indents, the rear car is the worst. These are the LEDs I will use. 

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Last edited by Trainlover9943

...The next issue is when I did the end lights in the powered car, when stopped, they do dim a very slight bit, not enough that you could really tell but if you look at it directly after it stops, you can see the change. Almost like the car has rule 17 lighting. I run the set at 18v but if I turn the voltage down a hair (to 17v) that goes away.

end lights

1. When you say your present 12V DC LED strips are AC powered, they are directly connected to track-voltage (center-rail roller, outer-rail wheels)? 

2. What LEDs did you use for the end lights?  In your photo above, if these are the powered end cars, it appears you have green, red, and white lights.  Since you say you run DCS presumably these are MTH PS2 and you replaced bulbs with LEDs?  That is, PS3 cars are already LED.  Just trying to understand what you changed for the end of car lighting and where the power comes from (e.g., a light output on the PS2 harness).

 

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@stan2004 posted:

end lights

1. When you say your present 12V DC LED strips are AC powered, they are directly connected to track-voltage (center-rail roller, outer-rail wheels)? 

2. What LEDs did you use for the end lights?  In your photo above, if these are the powered end cars, it appears you have green, red, and white lights.  Since you say you run DCS presumably these are MTH PS2 and you replaced bulbs with LEDs?  That is, PS3 cars are already LED.  Just trying to understand what you changed for the end of car lighting and where the power comes from (e.g., a light output on the PS2 harness).

 

1. Yes. 

2. I used standard 3MM white LEDs with 330ohm resistors. Yes, all I did was replaced the bulbs with the LEDs. The R32 (the set on the left and the one I converted, I haven't touched the R40 yet) is a PS2 set. 

Last edited by Trainlover9943

... The next issue is when I did the end lights in the powered car, when stopped, they do dim a very slight bit, not enough that you could really tell but if you look at it directly after it stops, you can see the change. Almost like the car has rule 17 lighting. I run the set at 18v but if I turn the voltage down a hair (to 17v) that goes away...

...

2. I used standard 3MM white LEDs with 330ohm resistors. Yes, all I did was replaced the bulbs with the LEDs. 

If you simply replaced a PS2 6V bulbs with a 3mm LED (w/330 Ohm resistor) then the slight drop in brightness can be explained.  PS2 boards drive the light outputs to maintain constant brightness in a lamp (vs. constant brightness in an LED).  It gets techno-nerdy regarding the difference between RMS and Average.  What happens is when the engine stops, the average voltage applied to a PS2 light output drops slightly even though the RMS stays the same.

As to why the effect appears demoted at ~17V instead of ~18V gets even more arcane so I'm going to leave it at that.

The effect can be seen more dramatically for guys running PS2 conventional where track voltage varies widely.  That is, the lamps maintain constant brightness over the conventional voltage range but if you replace a lamp with an LED (plus resistor), you will see a change in brightness.  It's not a dramatic effect but is there nonetheless.

If it's critical to maintain constant brightness in your PS2 LED+resistor light output, it would involve adding maybe 3 or 4 components to regulate the light output to maintain a constant average voltage rather than a constant RMS voltage.  It's not that it would be expensive (maybe $1 per light output) but I think somewhat tedious...in my opinion of course!

 

@stan2004 posted:

If you simply replaced a PS2 6V bulbs with a 3mm LED (w/330 Ohm resistor) then the slight drop in brightness can be explained.  PS2 boards drive the light outputs to maintain constant brightness in a lamp (vs. constant brightness in an LED).  It gets techno-nerdy regarding the difference between RMS and Average.  What happens is when the engine stops, the average voltage applied to a PS2 light output drops slightly even though the RMS stays the same.

As to why the effect appears demoted at ~17V instead of ~18V gets even more arcane so I'm going to leave it at that.

The effect can be seen more dramatically for guys running PS2 conventional where track voltage varies widely.  That is, the lamps maintain constant brightness over the conventional voltage range but if you replace a lamp with an LED (plus resistor), you will see a change in brightness.  It's not a dramatic effect but is there nonetheless.

If it's critical to maintain constant brightness in your PS2 LED+resistor light output, it would involve adding maybe 3 or 4 components to regulate the light output to maintain a constant average voltage rather than a constant RMS voltage.  It's not that it would be expensive (maybe $1 per light output) but I think somewhat tedious...in my opinion of course!

 

Thanks for the explanation. So basically its normal operation with LEDs. It doesn't bother me enough to mess with it anymore. Just have to get the non powered cars LEDs on DC power now. 

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