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 A dozen Railking passenger cars need  LED lighting. Two incandescent  bulbs  per car . The need for replacing these things is getting old .  I don't  run the cars all the time but when I do there is usually a need to replace one or two or to reposition a loose one.

Any way to be a little economical with the LEDs and where to get the materials needed ?

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HEY John,                                                                                                     Thanks for the rapid response.                                            If you have used the  " one solution " , is there a not too complicated soldering job to the boards needed.  I have experience soldering wires together or to tracks but I've never tried anything with boards .

If it is something I think I can get done what kind of LEDs would you suggest ?    I looked over the bulbs in " Here is another "  and I'm  about as confused as any novice can be.

Is ' Gunrunnerjohn associated with Hennings?

 

Some of the cabooses I have do have LEDs for marker lights I think.  The Railking passenger cars just have two plug in incandescents each.

 

John is indeed associated with Hennings, as JW&A. The soldering involves attaching the track pickup wires to the "AC in" holes on the board and  wires to the light strip on DC out. He also has a no soldering kit that includes the light strips. There are thousands of strip light rolls on the favorite site; look for 3528 warm white non waterproof 12v strip light.

There may not be led replacement bulbs for the push in style; I have replaced all mine with the strips.

There are many threads on doing passenger car lighting with the strips and various regulator solutions, both home-rolled and off-the-shelf solutions.  I came up with the LED lighting regulator board to make the job of LED lighting a passenger car easy.

 LED Lighting Regulator

The module gives you DCS compatibility, flicker free operation, adjustable intensity, and of course, low power operation.  You can get 5 meter reels of LED's in amber, warm white, or bright white, for $3-4 from a host of places.  One reel will do eleven 18" passenger cars or ten 21" passenger cars.  Obviously, shorter cars work as well, you just get more cars from one reel of LED's.

As mentioned, I also packaged a solder-free kit, obviously it costs more for each car as I had to do the packaging.

 Passenger Car LED Lighting Kit

For anyone that can do basic soldering, the modules are a much more cost effective solution.

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Old Newbie posted:

John - can I use the module on 18V DC from LionChief walwarts?  

Sure, it runs on AC or DC up to around 22 volts.

Dallas Joseph posted:

OK  GRJ , 

If I would get 3 of your lighting kits I would be able to get at least 6 passenger cars lit for now.  I could get the other ones done later. 

The small size of your modules seem like this is the most efficient system to get into the small areas of these cars using track power.

How do I order these from you ?

 JWA Passenger Car LED Lighting Kit

John H posted:

The board is 1 1/16" by 1/2". by 3/4" high. You can bend a tab to get the height to about 5/8". I have hidden them in the vestibule or bathroom of cars.

Most of the time, I stick it on the roof of the car with the tab bent over.  Unless you hold the car upside down, you can't see it.  If there is a location like vestibule or bathroom with no windows, I put it there.

I stick them with the adhesive backing, then I use a few spots of CA Adhesive to make sure they don't come loose.  I haven't had a problem with any of them.

One caution, you have to make sure you're well ventilated using CA Adhesive and it's totally dry before closing up the cars so you don't fog the windows.  As long as I follow my simple rules, it's worked out well.

JEFF ,                                                                                                                 I too have used a contact like cement.    From Walthers and many others (  Hobbylinc  etc.,, )  it's called GOO  ( UPC - 16374 - 00185 ). It sometimes gets  a little stringy but it's great at setting pieces in place.                                  As far as your other post Jeff about the people being installed before closing the car up........WELL.....I've felt that the cars  with a dozen or so  passeangers looked realistic.       Mine were filled like the collegiate were heading to Spring Break.  I have to keep the revenue at a high level for THIS RR.

 

GRJ ,                                                                                                                   Love that  CA Adhesive.  I've used a  Super Thin type for some porous surfaces that are hard to get a good bond with . I've done refurbishing on plaster of Paris church statues when the damaged surface of the plaster is exposed and it's impossible to get paint to stick to it. After letting some CA soak in I reapply and then the pieces can be bonded or the surface is ready for repainting.  Fixed everything from flake board furniture hinge areas  to permanently bonding wooden chair legs in this manner.

I definitely hear your advice about ventilation though   GRJ.  If you ever use the Super Thin , be careful too .......that stuff flows faster than water.                    

I actually keep both the true liquid and the gel CA on hand.  I have Loctite 380 Black Max as well, it's great for filling gaps, and it dries black.  It's really strong, I use that occasionally for brass repairs where soldering would mean I'd have to do some painting.  The Black Max blends right in and really grips.

I have Walther's Goo, but I find it's a bit too difficult to control for fine work, so I don't use it nearly as often as I might otherwise.

Last edited by gunrunnerjohn

Dmestan, 

        Using the last few posts should help you with the glue.

As far as the silicone being used , I'm not so sure.     

When working with motorcycle and auto circuits I was always told to keep most silicone glues away from the wiring .  Not sure if it had anything to do with corrosion with that ammonia smelling carrier or not.

Have fun with the lighting.😉

Last edited by Rich Melvin

OH  BOY  JOHN ,                                                                                        at one time I remember asking you if you were an MIT Grad .  And now you sound like quite the adhesive specialist.  This hobby sure does encompass a very large scientific expertise base.  Pretty much like running a real railroad I guess , with less area involved . (  ?  )

Always stay well ventilated of course , we want to keep you around for a long time .  🗿    🗿  🗿 🗿🗿🗿

 I have used replacement LED bulbs and just plugged them in to my 12VAC outside landscape lighting.  After 5 years they are still burning brightly without a single failure. These direct plug in LED lights may work on the passenger cars but not sure if they could handle the voltage spikes.  I'll have to try them and if they are too bright a bit of amber bulb dye applied gives them a golden glow.

HEY  JOHN ,                                                                                                  really nice LED system to work with.                                  I have the inexpensive Railking Pennsy Madison cars if you know what they are like   , with the two incandescent bulb holders. 

I actually soldered the AC wires to the car system instead of using those handy connectors , put the the module  in the  bathroom where I had a seated lady in a chair  ( not the throne ) .  Plenty of room .

I used the two bulb holders to hold a board 1/8 " × 3/16 " which was about two inches less than the interior of the car.  I then lightly coated the bottom and top of that board with that GOO.  I removed the paper on the adhesive backing and applied the LED strip . The nice thing I was able to do was to position one of the LEDs in each of the rear red marker light body holes .  The lights were the old fashion caboose lights like I have on some of the inexpensive Lionel cabooses  which I had painted to look a little better .  The incandescent lighting did little to show that there was any light in those.  This light system made it very easy to finally get to see some light from the markers.    I had lowered the bodies on the trucks to look a little better , so now you can see the tail of the train in the dark.   Progress .

I can do 5 more cars from the 3 kits I received.  I'll have to order enough as time goes by for the other 8 cars .

What a nice efficient way to install an LED up grade. 

KUDOS  BIG  JOHN 👍       THANKS

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey Dennis,                                                                                               i like doing the amber dye.   I have a little 0-6-0 RAILKING  switcher that I did that to on the head light and tender rear light.  With a couple of coats it gave a nice look to the interior of the cab.

I didn't use the small  regulator screw on GRJ's LED module.  I left it alone and the light is fairly bright but I did use the whole strip of LEDs which I believe can be used for a larger passenger car.  Mine are the inexpensive ,shorter RK Madison's. 

The light is a brighter white but it really works out well with all the other types and colors on the layout. It sort of says  "  HEY, I'm a passenger car full of people not a building or rail signal  "   I don't know,  it just looks OK to me.

I couldn't give any info on spikes from the rail causing problems on the passenger cars .  The locomotive pieces I have are almost all Proto3 with LED lighting and I haven't  had any issues with that after about 3 years running them.

Sounds like you are having a ball with your rail experiences. Mine is just a private , one room deal.

Enjoy.

WELL, now what John ?     OLD  NEWBIE just bought out the toilet paper.... I mean the LED kits.

                                                                           I still have one more passenger car to do from the 3 double module kits.   With everybody supposed to stay home now there is a lot of good things to work on in the layout.                                                                                                       Actually I was wondering what would be the best way  to do two red markers and some low light insideof all these cabooses using LEDs 

ALSO will the LED lighting module kits be available again soon ?   I thought I would take your advice on the less expensive one and do some soldering.  I don't know what the lighting strip would be called though after looking on the different internet sites.

 

 

John H ,                                                                                                                Good idea John.   I wasn't sure if you would cause problems by cutting the strips or painting over the LED's.     

I did have a baggage car with a couple handlers inside moving baggage around .  I wanted to have a low light inside and rolled up a strip away from the windows .  I didn't  want to waste any by cutting .

Thanks John.

 

HEY  GRJ ,                                                                                                Went to the site for the light strip.     Delivery guaranteed by May 24 !!!                                                                                    

I may wait for Hennings to show " in stock " for your kits.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Like John says, groups of three.  You can also cut several groups of three and just wire them together, I've done that in some cabooses to spread the light around.

Does that mean you can have strips in 3, 6, 9, 12, etc lengths, or you have to cut them into groups of three and solder them together to get longer lengths?  I'm pretty sure it is the former but just want to make sure.

CAPPilot posted:

Does that mean you can have strips in 3, 6, 9, 12, etc lengths, or you have to cut them into groups of three and solder them together to get longer lengths?  I'm pretty sure it is the former but just want to make sure.

You can do either.  You can use any combo of three, 3,6,9, etc.  You can also cut six of them, run some wires to another strip of nine of them, and light them all.  This allows you to distribute the light where you need it.

Each 3 LED/1 resistor section stands alone.

GRJ ,

I went to the site as shown for the 5 meter warm white LED light strip.      Do you have a problem with their site when ordering ? 

I  gave them my name for the card and I keep getting that I have to use English for my name.  ?????

When I try to use  the spot to confirm the buy , I am told i have to use the PROMO code..........can't find a PROMO code on any page of theirs showing a promo code.   ?????

PS.  I've been able so far to get 10 more pieces of rolling stock lit with those LED regulators.   Thanks

Dallas Joseph posted:

Maybe it's the name Dallas that is throwing them? 

When you are finally ready to confirm your order do you know what PROMO code they might be looking for

I'll have to try again at AliExpress .   

Dallas, when I ordered for the first time a couple of weeks ago, AE had a promo $2 coupon for first time AE customers.  Do you see anything like that when you try to place your order?

Can you take a screenshot of what your sticking point is without showing any private information?

GRJ ,

I didn't register but I did get through with the order.

My card company tells I  have to give them a call to verify this purchase as it is the first time charge out of state on this site.   Everything should work out .     Thanks😁

Kingman,  

The little redball check seemed to get things rolling.  I hadn't figured that out earlier.      Thanks 😁

GUYS , 

I had sent them an email about the " ENGLISH "  issue for my name and the " PROTO  CODE. "    I had no such requests this time.

As always , the guys on the forum have my back  🙃

Used 3 LEDs for each caboose with clear Tamiya Orange painted on each to tone down interior light.

Passenger cars had full strip from the kits with no paint .  Half of the strip facing down and half facing the ceiling area.

Not exactly lifelike or purist in nature but I've been very pleased with the effect given all the different building and signal light temperatures.  

Thanks for keeping me away from all the other regular things this railroad has to have done John.  This LED lighting thing is new and interestingesides beneficial .

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  • IMG_20200324_102746349~3: Low interior light
  • 1585067352638_IMG_20200324_103509108~2: Bright passengers but keeps it prominent from all the backround.
Dallas Joseph posted:

HEY JOHN ,

I might be in trouble here. 

Judy is great about the model railroad stuff but I never know if that would change.🤔

PS. She did just mention  that she expects her Polar Express to be well lit at Christmas time. 😁

The Polar Express passenger cars (non-scale size) were the first ones I converted to LED lighting.  The same light intensity throughout the car and no more blinking made the effort well worth it.  

I've converted about 50 of my passenger cars to LED, only another 50-60 to go.  It really is worth the effort, the even, adjustable, and non-blinking lighting is great.  Add to that the fact that no more circuit breakers tripping when two long passenger hit the same power district, and the picture is complete.   Another bonus is less roller erosion due to current, very little current flowing through them now.

The lower power consumption is one of the major reasons many folks switch to LED lighting.  Personally, I like it for all the other positive attributes.  Typically, an 18" passenger car will draw from 1/4A to 1/3A of power, double deck cars can easily exceed 1/2A.  An LED equipped 18" passenger car draws from 20ma to 45ma if you go really bright.  Most of my 18" cars are set between 20 and 25 milliamps, or less than 10% of the original power draw using the factory incandescent bulbs.  You'll also never melt your shell with LED lighting.

Last edited by gunrunnerjohn

HEY  GREG ,

From a couple years ago when she got her Polar Express. Judy made the buildings with yarn from an old pattern book. We worked together to make our house in the forground .

The spot lighting in the photos were individual LEDs.  

Since the expansion has been going on ,the LED strip lighting was an idea for the snow areas .   I never thought about your idea of lighting the passenger cars with the LEDs.   (  now you have me thinking about how to install LEDs to that little Lionel hand truck with the elves )THANKS 😀...........now John's getting 50 more units out if we need them doesn't sound so far fetched !!!😁

 

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  • 1585075393160_20181206_104244: Polar Express early lighting
  • 20181206_111506: Polar Express needing a lot more lighting😎
Dallas Joseph posted:

...   Actually I was wondering what would be the best way  to do two red markers and some low light insideof all these cabooses using LEDs ... 

Not clear if the issue of red LED markers was resolved.  If not, refer to this OGR thread which shows how to add 2 Red LEDs to a 12V white LED strip.  Following photo hijacked from earlier thread.  But you may need to save up your pennies as it will cost about 5 cents per car! 

2%2520red%2520leds%2520plus%2520a%2520resistor

 

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Stan , is there any specific type of LED BULB that has to be used .  🤔  I'm  not very trained in these areas .                              I did a rudimentary marker set up in a couple of RK Pennsy E8 s'  by drilling small holes and installing grain of wheat bulbs with the wires cut off.  After getting started with John's LEDs I replaced the poor lighting with a single LED behind each marker  "  bulb  ".

John , you go guy  , keep this science going.

Stan, many years ago you posted a “how to” on markers lights using the 3 strip leds, cut apart, then soldered together for each red and the EOT light.  I have performed that mod, by reading and looking at your photos, but the link to the post(jcstudios, inc.) no longer works.  Do you still have those photos?  If so, could you post them so we can save them for our future use?  Thx in advance.

Dallas Joseph posted:

Stan , is there any specific type of LED BULB that has to be used .  🤔 ...

red%2520leds%2520for%2520marker%2520lights

Not specific.  There are many options as shown in above photo from the linked thread.  I'd say mainly depends on mounting hole size you have or have drilled out.  In any case, costs are modest...pennies or maybe a nickel or dime for a suitable Red LED, a penny or two for a resistor.

Additional comment.  You may run across so-called "clear lens" Red LEDs.  That is, when unpowered the lens is see-through or clear.  To each his own, but for marker lights I prefer the "diffused red" lens style as is the case with all those in the above photo.  That is, when unpowered the lens is red.

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Last edited by stan2004
TedW posted:

Stan, many years ago you posted a “how to” on markers lights using the 3 strip leds, cut apart, then soldered together for each red and the EOT light.  I have performed that mod, by reading and looking at your photos, but the link to the post(jcstudios, inc.) no longer works.  Do you still have those photos?  If so, could you post them so we can save them for our future use?  Thx in advance.

See this OGR thread.  I think this is what you're talking about.  Here's one photo from that thread that illustrates the concept of breaking apart a 3-LED segment from a strip.

buck-boost%2520section%2520separated

 

 

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Yeah, I have all those links, John.  For the specific application I have, my preference is smd, out of the rolls of strips I already have.  Bought 10 reels on a good buy a couple years back.  Thus the request to Stan.  Want very dim lighting in a  baggage car, so I use your Osh Park DIY board with a 500 ohm pot to give me that.  Works great.  I realize there are other methods to do this, but this works for me just fine.

Unless you only want to have few of these in the car, you get MUCH better an even lighting using the typical 60 LEDS/Meter strips and this LED Lighting Regulator board.

For around $11 a car you can install lighting that's superior to those Amazon modules in a number of ways.

  • Flicker free as there is a buffer capacitor on the regulator board.
  • DCS compatible having a 22uh inductor on the regulator board.
  • Adjustable intensity using the intensity adjustment pot on the regulator board.
  • In a typical 18" car, you get about 24 LED's along the ceiling for very even light.
  • Less work as you have to individually wire each of these little modules.
  • The Amazon modules don't include reverse voltage protection for the LED's, running them on AC will result in a short life for the LED's.

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Last edited by gunrunnerjohn

amazon 3528 led

What he said.  Presumably, we're talking passenger car lighting since that's the thread title!

In which case you typically need, say, a dozen LEDs to smoothly light a typical interior.  At 80 cents a piece that adds up quickly and all the wiring!  And then there's all the additional features in the lighting modules GRJ mentions.

Separately, I'm a bit curious about their statement of "AC or DC Compatible."  The back of the board is labeled DC 12-18V!  Kind of makes you wonder.  I realize several of the positive comments on the Amazon site mention AC operation in train applications.  But there have been many OGR threads about LEDs that claim AC operation but then have poor long-term reliability because LEDs are really DC devices and don't play well with AC.  It's a your-mileage-may-vary as different LEDs have different "tolerance" to AC but if going this route why not drop-a-dime and install a protection diode (about 10 cents).  The diode insures the LED(s) see only DC...just like marked on the board!   1 diode can support the entire passenger car.  Very cheap insurance in the absence of specific technical data (I did not see any) showing this version of LED can indeed tolerate AC.

The resistor is right there on the little board.  1000 Ohms as stated in the item description.

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Last edited by stan2004

Unless Ohm's Law has been repealed, 9 volts across 1K does not yield 20milliamps, more like 9 milliamps, we also have the 3V drop across the LED.    For 18 volts, you are dropping 15 volts across the resistor, so you get a little closer to the rating, 15 milliamps.

However, if you actually run a dozen of these at 15 milliamps, you're using 180 milliamps of power, and the intensity of the lighting will be, shall we say, less than realistic!  My typical current draw for an 18" car with 24 LED's is around 25-30 milliamps total.  That yields a nice even and realistic amount of light.

A dozen Railking passenger cars need  LED lighting. Two incandescent  bulbs  per car . The need for replacing these things is getting old .  I don't  run the cars all the time but when I do there is usually a need to replace one or two or to reposition a loose one.

Any way to be a little economical with the LEDs and where to get the materials needed ?

There are many kits on Amazon that have strips of leds with a wall wart. The Leds are on double sided tape and can be use direct to track power, put a resistor in to protect above 12v and you are good to go, have used many of them no issues.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/prod...tle?ie=UTF8&th=1

Warm White LED Strip Light, Dimmable 12 Volt LED Light Strip Warm White, 3000K Super Bright LED Tape Lighting, for Bedroom, Kitchen, Closet, Under Cabinet, Vanity Mirror, Indoor Only, CT

Last edited by ThatGuy

I have 6 passenger cars that are MTH Rail King, yes they are the less expensive ones. What I did to replace the incandescent bulbs was to take, the Christmas tree lights they used and replace the bulb with a single 3V warm LED and an 870K ohm resistor, reinstalled in the factory base. They are a little dim, weak on the lumens, but with the lights off, and after my second scotch, I was pleased. However, my MTH premiere ES44AC and Rail King SD70ACe would just stop dead., at the same spot, on a straightway. I checked everything I could and nothing track wise was a problem. I took a video and gave that and the engines to a friend of mine who happens to be an authorized MTH service provider and he found nothing wrong with either engine. I made sure all the resisters were on the anode of the LED, not because that should matter but because they should be the same. The only conclusion I could reach was that somehow the LEDs I rigged up must be doing something to the track voltage, the the engines are picking up as a DCS stop. And no, I currently am not running in DCS, but a simple MTH brick and speed control unit. Seeing these on Amazon and looking at the size of the lights, I figure 3 in each car would be more than generous for lighting. No way I'm spending  $39.95 for a set of two kits do do the 3 sets of cars. So I'm taking a flyer on it.

Marky Mark, you seem to be a DIY guy.  If so, GRJ has graciously provided his board design in component form.  Order the boards from off shore or here in the US from Osh Park.($3.80 for three boards shipped).  Board components from digikey, mouser or offshore, your choice.  Around $3-$5 dollars per board, depending on where you get your parts.  
8BA45A71-5780-4FF8-AB53-B413AFCBF184

57DC6591-6258-4781-8464-FF0739C01ACB

5A021AD3-3997-406F-9852-63C306E779ED

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Here's the link to the OSHPark project for the lighting boards: OSHPark Constant Current Lighting Regulator Board

Here's the link to the project and description: GRJ's Original DIY Constant Current PAX Car Lighting Module Files

I hasten to add, if you source these parts from overseas and don't mind waiting a few weeks, you can build these boards really cheaply.

Last edited by gunrunnerjohn

Each car has 2 center rail pick-up rollers so I don't get any flicker at all. I was simply sharing what I found on Amazon with these LEDs. I am a DYI guy but only because I'm  cheap. My first LED was fine if my train wouldn't have had this stupid stop thing. If after I try theses new light  the same thing happens, the lights come out and my problem is solved for zero dollars. But I just want to say thanks to you guys. I followed O Gauge for many years and learned a lot.

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