According to Charles Ro and Trainworld the AF Berkshire will still be available next summer. I have preorders on the RF&P on both sites. Don't think I will have to worry about my credit card being hit on these items.
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I might go for the C&O.
Maybe some of the Berks listed in the 2020 catalog 1 will offer the option of a lowered headlight pilot! There were CAD drawings showing the engineering on another older thread.
Rich
richabr posted:Maybe some of the Berks listed in the 2020 catalog 1 will offer the option of a lowered headlight pilot! There were CAD drawings showing the engineering on another older thread.
Rich
I don't think the gang at Lionel will mind...
Rusty
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Good job Rusty.
Rich
Next summer? Still time to save... lol
What do you mean they will still be available next Summer? You mean they won't be delivered until Summer? The last time I looked Ro said "EXPECTED AVAILABILITY BY 03/10/2020"
Trainworld is more accurate with the dates. Expected availability: 06/30/2020
Worth the wait. It will be better than the flyer chiefs that have no Engineer and fireman figures. Better looking coal load in the tender.
Legacy, handrails, detail. Sounds good.
I just moved into S scale and love it.
No more three rail. Looks so good. The size is perfect.
prices a little cheaper.
I just hope they arrive as previously described in posts from the first time around. I spoke with Will Holt of the NASG at Indy this year and he told me that there were cost cutting measures and they would not be the "full version" that was cataloged the first time. I have no idea if that is true or not and I would love to have Lionel comment and let us know exactly what we are getting, and when we can expect them.
I have mine on order. I hope I get what I think I'm getting. If they don't show up with all the details including Kadee coupler pads, 4 chuffs per revolution, add on rails, details, etc... I'll just ship them back. Would be nice to know before July of next year though.
I started this thread in jest but some think a more detailed version of the Berkshire will appear in 2020 - hope its true.
I hope they come with better traction tires! The ones they used now are terrible.
Gunny
I hope it looks like a SD40-2!
Brendan
Rusty Traque posted:richabr posted:Maybe some of the Berks listed in the 2020 catalog 1 will offer the option of a lowered headlight pilot! There were CAD drawings showing the engineering on another older thread.
Rich
I don't think the gang at Lionel will mind...
Rusty
To clarify, these drawings were posted by Dave Olson in a thread describing the previous run of American Flyer Legacy Berks that never shipped.
I have mine on order also, I have The Polar Express, and a newer Bluetooth Southern Berkshire. Version 2 is nicer than the original, and I am hoping the Legacy version comes in as advertised.
Charles Ro and Trainworld are still taking orders. I also have been told by someone at Lionel that they are still taking orders, and hoping to meet a minimum order point. Although I wasn't told what that order point is.
Flyer
I also have been told by someone at Lionel that they are still taking orders, and hoping to meet a minimum order point.
Uh-Oh...……………………….
Rich
richabr posted:I also have been told by someone at Lionel that they are still taking orders, and hoping to meet a minimum order point.
Uh-Oh...……………………….
Rich
Past experience has shown that sometimes the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing at the ol' Circle L Ranch.
Unless something appears in writing, everything is rumor.
Whether or not if the Legacy Berks show up in June as advertised, "dumbed down," or not at all, time will tell. Otherwise, life goes on.
Rusty
Not sure what to order. A C&O or the Pere Marquette.
Hate pre ordering without seeing it first.
There are times that if you don't preorder there are non to be had when they are issued. My guess is that they will produce very few extra locomotives.
cswalter posted:
Hate pre ordering without seeing it first.
I tend to agree. Regrettably, Lionel's track record has been pretty spotty as of late, particularly for items that are new rather than a reissue/rerun. I'd like to examine a sample first.
Bob
I don't like pre-ordering either. Especially when we don't know what we are really getting. Lionel's recent history doesn't instill much confidence either.
The order deadline for these engines has long since passed I would think though. I put mine in over 5 months ago. If they are still accepting orders, that's not a good sign IMHO.
I'm a little bit concerned that Ryan hasn't joined this discussion like he has in the past. So at this rate we could have a new catalog out before we even know IF these things are going to be built or not?
jonnyspeed posted:I'm a little bit concerned that Ryan hasn't joined this discussion like he has in the past. So at this rate we could have a new catalog out before we even know IF these things are going to be built or not?
There's also been silence on the 3-rail side regarding a couple of issues. They are a) really busy for the Christmas season or b) been instructed to stay away from message boards.
After all, they have another one of those 
Ryan & Dave Facebook shows to prepare for on the 19th...
Rusty
I would not pre order one of these or any other Flyonel engine. The four Berkshires I have all EAT traction tires and two have been back for new boards and shorted smoke units. The product quality has got to improve before I waste any more money on Lionel products.
Gunny
Gunny, You must be an unlucky buyer. I have had none of those problems.
Bill,
I doubt iI am an unlucky buyer! I think the product has no quality built in by the Chinese toy makers.
Gunny
Roundhouse Bill posted:Gunny, You must be an unlucky buyer. I have had none of those problems.
Bill,
I think that the contrapositive is also true, that is, you are the lucky one. Each of my Berks has had problems requiring sending them back for repair. Now that they are out of warranty, it's up to me to repair them, or pay $$$. I'm in total agreement with Gunny on this one. I'm done with buying Lionel locomotives. Faulty circuit boards, badly designed smoke units. slipshod assembly and cheap rubber traction tires are part of what they represent. The true "legacy" of Lionel is the lack of quality.
Gunny, Sorry to hear of the problems with the boards and smoke units, my problems were only traction tires which was overcome by using O-rings.
Ray
My dad has been an American flyer repair guy for 30 years and the newer flyer engines especially lion chief ,he says to stay away from only because boards get scare real quick for them.
Still don't see any mention of them on the shipping schedule which goes out through July now. This lack of communication is frustrating. Thinking about canceling my pre-orders.
I'll hang in there. Can't wait to add to the 3 Flyerchiefs I already have. Knew going in that the projected shipping schedule is iffy at best. I want to help avoid hearing all the bit(##n and moaning if they are cancelled due to low orders which is probably why they will reappear in the forthcoming new catalog. Don't see any mention of the EP5's or heavyweights on the schedule either.
Rich
Just received a C&O AF Lionel USRA light 2-8-2 imported in 2006 for $500 on Ebay still new in box. Running in conventional mode. Does not smoke much - maybe with 5-6 cars it may smoke more. It runs well and as long as it doesn't blow a board it was a good purchase. It certainly looks good with as much detail as a Legacy Lionel O Gauge USRA 2-8-2 (K-Line tooling). Why was the USRA 2-8-2 and 4-6-2 not better sellers? Certainly a better performer/looker than the ERIE 2-8-4 that I paid $380 at Charles Ro.
These engines have a Seuthe smoke unit and it takes smoke fluid made especially for them. If it is used with regular fluid or run without fluid the unit is damaged. Carl Tuveson, who is available on line, can sell you a used replacement, Lionel has no more of the units.
To add to what Bill said, those Seuthe units operate much better in command mode than conventional. There are conversions to fan driven smoke units and 4 chuffs per rev out there. Carl Tuveson did mine.
Carl did conversions on 6 of the early TMCC light mikado and pacifics for me. They are completely different engines when he is done with them. Fan driven smoke, 4 chuffs/rev, cruise control and a lower speed range. No reason to put up with those Seuthe smoke units in the early S gauge TMCC engines.
ns1001 posted:Just received a C&O AF Lionel USRA light 2-8-2 imported in 2006 for $500 on Ebay still new in box. Running in conventional mode. Does not smoke much - maybe with 5-6 cars it may smoke more. It runs well and as long as it doesn't blow a board it was a good purchase. It certainly looks good with as much detail as a Legacy Lionel O Gauge USRA 2-8-2 (K-Line tooling). Why was the USRA 2-8-2 and 4-6-2 not better sellers? Certainly a better performer/looker than the ERIE 2-8-4 that I paid $380 at Charles Ro.
I think the Mikado's and Pacific's sold pretty well, it's more likely that Lionel apparently lost access to the tooling. Perhaps the tooling is being used as doorstops at Sanda Kan.
There's no doubt these were much better detailed than the FlyerChief Berkshires, but when these things were conceived there were different people in charge at Lionel.
A Western Pacific Mikado and Southern Railway Pacific passenger set were announced, but were cancelled no reason given. Pity, I was interested in the Southern Passenger set.
Rusty
I think they were good sellers, but you do find an occasional one on eBay for sale.
I was told the tooling was lost in the whole China manufacturing game. Too bad it/they were very well detailed and good runners.
I purchased a brand new NYC Mikado on eBay for $357.00 about 2 years ago. I had been looking for a long time to find one at that price.
Flyer
I have the American Models Southern passenger set pulled by their Pacific. It is a pretty nice set. The AM cars are a lot more free rolling than the AF by Lionel cars.
Well, we're wandering way off the Legacy Berk topic and next Monday we'll have some new stuff to chatter about...
Anyways....
The AM Pacific is a good locomotive, even though its detailing is basic. It is a great blank canvas for detailing:
However, the best of both worlds HiRail-wise (IMHO) is the Lionel/Flyer Pacific and AM passenger cars:
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Getting further off the subject I ordered MTH S SRR F7 direct from MTH due in May for 299.95. Pics indicate separate handrails and lift rings and runs in conventional mode. Any experience wit the MTH F7?
ns1001 posted:Getting further off the subject I ordered MTH S SRR F7 direct from MTH due in May for 299.95. Pics indicate separate handrails and lift rings and runs in conventional mode. Any experience wit the MTH F7?
Hard to have experience with something that's not out yet, but the MTH F3's have separate handrails and lift rings. As did the F7's when SHS made them. ( Edit to add photo.)
The MTH 3.0 system allows for conventional AC, DC, DCC and DCS operation.
Here's a link to video of the F3's running on DCC:
https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...cale-f3-s-the-videos
Rusty
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I have a Legacy 765 NPR Berkshire on order, I sure hope they are made. It would be nice if there were some new engines in the catalog on the 20th.
The Lionel/Flyer Mikado’s and Pacific’s are certainly nice. Here is a PRR Mikado running on the layout, it was retrofitted with an MTH fan driven smoke unit. Sorry about the poor picture, the motion of the engine exceeded my camera skills.
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In an effort to help us continue to drift off topic, here is a pic of my Lionel Pacific and Mikado and a video of the Pacific converted to DCC. I love these engines after DCC conversion. They are really lacking as built by Lionel IMHO.
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Very nice, thanks for posting the videos and pictures.
jonnyspeed posted:In an effort to help us continue to drift off topic, here is a pic of my Lionel Pacific and Mikado and a video of the Pacific converted to DCC. I love these engines after DCC conversion. They are really lacking as built by Lionel IMHO.
What these things really needed was scale conversion wheels. When the Mikado first came out, Fred Rouse from SSL&S thought about it, but he started talking about a new frame with springing and equalization along with new drivers and wheels at a cost equal to the locomotive. Frankly, I figured he was over-thinking it, replacement drivers and wheels would have sufficed.
Rusty
Rusty Traque posted:jonnyspeed posted:In an effort to help us continue to drift off topic, here is a pic of my Lionel Pacific and Mikado and a video of the Pacific converted to DCC. I love these engines after DCC conversion. They are really lacking as built by Lionel IMHO.
What these things really needed was scale conversion wheels. When the Mikado first came out, Fred Rouse from SSL&S thought about it, but he started talking about a new frame with springing and equalization along with new drivers and wheels at a cost equal to the locomotive. Frankly, I figured he was over-thinking it, replacement drivers and wheels would have sufficed.
Rusty
Yes, it is a real shame that they never offered any of the TMCC or Legacy steamers with scale wheels. The detailing of the Mikado, the Y-3 and the Challenger are fantastic.
I thought all the original A C Gilbert freight cars were scale 1/64 size but the Lionel version of the Tidewater chemical tank car seems oversize compared to other cars - just my perception?
ns1001 posted:I thought all the original A C Gilbert freight cars were scale 1/64 size but the Lionel version of the Tidewater chemical tank car seems oversize compared to other cars - just my perception?
Perception. It's the same size as all the other Flyer tank cars.
Rusty
I meant all AF tank cars. By the way found if I pull 6 cars and blow the whistle occasionally I can get the C&O 2-8-2 to create a steady stream of smoke at about 40% power - running in conventional. Good enough for me.
Back to the Thread Topic. Dave Olsen of Lionel put it on the 2020 catalog thread that they need more preorders to make the Legacy Berk. I have ordered mine so guys order yours if you haven't.
Compare the picture of the RF&P 2-8-4 in the 2020 catalogue to the picture of the same model in the Charles Ro illustration. According to Charles Ro picture little detail has been added except separate handrails. Not worth $550.
ns1001 posted:Compare the picture of the RF&P 2-8-4 in the 2020 catalogue to the picture of the same model in the Charles Ro illustration. According to Charles Ro picture little detail has been added except separate handrails. Not worth $550.
Ro also notes these things are due to arrive next month, which we all know that's not gonna happen.
The picture in the 2020 catalog is of an O scale Legacy Berk "for illustrative purposes." Ro's picture is of a FlyerChief Berk from the 2018 V1 catalog, also "for illustrative purposes." Both have been Photoshopped so neither can be taken as gospel as to what the final product will look like.
I seem to recall in their FB video, the boys said they were going to post photo's of the engineering sample that they "showed" in the video. It hasn't happened yet. I guess they lost their "round tuit." Maybe their Old Railroad music video was more important.
Obviously, the lack of any new "horses mouth" information is a sure-fire way to increase interest and pre-orders.
I have other more important things occupying my attention right now, so I'm not holding my breath for if and when it shows up. Frankly, I forgot all about the Legacy Berks until I saw this thread pop up again on the Recent Posts sidebar.
If the Berks are cancelled again, fine. I can use the money elsewhere. However, if it gets cancelled again and recataloged 2 years down the road, I won't be reordering.
Rusty
Rusty Traque posted:ns1001 posted:Compare the picture of the RF&P 2-8-4 in the 2020 catalogue to the picture of the same model in the Charles Ro illustration. According to Charles Ro picture little detail has been added except separate handrails. Not worth $550.
Ro also notes these things are due to arrive next month, which we all know that's not gonna happen.
The picture in the 2020 catalog is of an O scale Legacy Berk "for illustrative purposes." Ro's picture is of a FlyerChief Berk from the 2018 V1 catalog, also "for illustrative purposes." Both have been Photoshopped so neither can be taken as gospel as to what the final product will look like.
I seem to recall in their FB video, the boys said they were going to post photo's of the engineering sample that they "showed" in the video. It hasn't happened yet. I guess they lost their "round tuit." Maybe their Old Railroad music video was more important.
Obviously, the lack of any new "horses mouth" information is a sure-fire way to increase interest and pre-orders.
I have other more important things occupying my attention right now, so I'm not holding my breath for if and when it shows up. Frankly, I forgot all about the Legacy Berks until I saw this thread pop up again on the Recent Posts sidebar.
If the Berks are cancelled again, fine. I can use the money elsewhere. However, if it gets cancelled again and recataloged 2 years down the road, I won't be reordering.
Rusty
Given Lionel's recent lapses in quality and the complete lack of an intelligent presentation of a preproduction sample of the Legacy Berk, I find it easy to pass. On the 0 scale side of the street, the 5 chuffs/rev on my new Legacy NYC J3a Hudson and the hideously wrong whistle on their new Legacy PRR J1a settle the issue for me. The trains made and delivered 10 - 20 years ago are better made and sorted out than the current production. The lack of spare parts for previously sold model locomotives is vexing. The added current difficulties and chaos emanating from China leads one to have little confidence in Lionel to deliver quality product in a timely manner. Truth to tell, I have also become sick and tired of obtaining one's toy choo-choos from Red China. For those who have pre-ordered, I wish the best of luck.
No (meaning none) pre-orders from this Gilbert engineer.
Respectfully,
Bob
I have two Legacy Berkshires on order, fingers crossed.
Anyone hear if these Legacy Berkshires are still coming this year? I think I might just grab a Flyer chief Berk for now. On furlough for the next month and I am bored.
cswalter posted:Anyone hear if these Legacy Berkshires are still coming this year? I think I might just grab a Flyer chief Berk for now. On furlough for the next month and I am bored.
Who knows? Everything is tossed into the wind with the Covid-19 issues. If they weren't built and on the water or docks before C-19 shutdowns, I would suspect next year at the earliest.
I seem to recall that after their FaceBook video presentation on January 22nd they were going to get photo's of the engineering sample up "soon."
I guess the were too busy making a "music video" and the April Fool's cologne "commercial" to get around to it.
I understand that the situation at present is in flux and there are things outside of Lionel's control, but frankly I don't care anymore. If the Berk comes in sometime this year, fine. If not or gets cancelled again, I can redirect the funds I've set aside to someone else.
Lionel's made some pretty nice Flyer stuff, but I don't think I'll be preordering anything from Lionel anymore.
Rusty
Yes, that is what I am thinking, next year.
Thanks,
For those who are awaiting their arrival, I wish the best. I am of the opinion, however, that our US importers seriously need to seek and find alternate countries to build toy/model trains (as well as other things more critical). Bringing some production back home would be desirable. Personally, going forward my days of purchasing any new hobby items made in Red China are over. Really over.
Respectfully. Keep safe.
Bob
Well Bob, We all know Lionel won't bring things out of China or somewhere else in the far East. China is getting up and running again. I expect we will see these as promised sometime in the fall or winter.
China is not a 3rd world country and will have things back to normal before we do. We have more dead and more infected than they do.
They are now shipping the medical equipment we need like masks and ventilators. Gee, I wish they could ship toilet paper.
Roundhouse Bill posted:Well Bob, We all know Lionel won't bring things out of China or somewhere else in the far East. China is getting up and running again. I expect we will see these as promised sometime in the fall or winter.
China is not a 3rd world country and will have things back to normal before we do. We have more dead and more infected than they do.
They are now shipping the medical equipment we need like masks and ventilators. Gee, I wish they could ship toilet paper.
Bill, perhaps you may not understand the point I am trying to make. Please permit me to clarify. Whether China production comes back to 'normal' or not is immaterial to me. The current Covid-19 pandemic is a direct result of the duplicitous behavior of the Chinese Communist Party and government (not the Chinese people who were victimized, too) who appear to have greatly under reported their infected and dead in Wuhan. The PRC refused to let members of our CDC into Wuhan to investigate the origins of the virus and its potential to transfer to humans. This has been reported at various points in the Wall Street Journal, The Mail (British), the NYTs, and elsewhere. They expelled our reporters when they started to report on what amounts to a cover up by Chinese officials, who also attempted to blame the whole mess on the US CIA. And so forth.
In any case, model train production could be moved in time to South Korea, Taiwan, Hungry (Maerklin manufactures in Hungry), the USA, etc. Others may do what they wish, but I shall limit as much as possible in the future the amount of my money that works its way back to Red China. I shall prosper perfectly well without their toy choo-choos. 
Respectfully,
Bob
No need for tmcc or legacy and with three of my six Flyerchief Berks sitting at Lionel for repair and one here waiting for an RA. I have no plans to buy more.
Gunny
