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I recently acquired a Lionel Vision Line GS 3 steam engine.  I also installed a lionel sensor track and hooked it up to my legacy control system. Once I addressed the engine, I thought all I needed to do was drive the engine over the sensor track and all the engine information would be uploaded to my legacy system. That did not happen. It stayed in cab 1 and I had to go in and manually input the name and type of engine and so fourth.  Now, the train runs and smokes, but the crew talk will not work and I cannot turn the marker lights on or off. It seems like little stuff, but I paid alot for this engine and I would like it to function as advertised. Does anyone have any suggestions as a course for action? I have reset the engine Twice and reassigned it to a different address.

Thanks to anyone who can respond

R. Scott Kelly

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The sensor track and your Legacy remote system only updates automatically IF you follow all of the instructions and settings. If you just plug it in and do nothing for setup, then it in turn does nothing and just sits there.

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...3#148675927321106853

@Keith L posted:

I'm not sure about the answers to your questions. However, I know a couple of related things that may be helpful:

1) Updates of engine info via the IRV2 can easily be disabled or re-enabled, so you only have to have the update function activated when to want to update the info for a specific engine. To disable: Press ACC, 99, AUX1, 3. To enable: Press ACC, 99, AUX, 4.

Again, as pointed out, you have to follow all instructions by first properly setting up the sensor track and assigning it an ID. Then you have to follow the next step and enable information updates via the above setting command sequence

Sensor track manual link https://www.lionelsupport.com/...50LCSSensorTrack.pdf

OK, but even with sensor track working, there is a basic expectation of the user properly setting up and programming the ID of the engine and type when adding to the CAB2. You knew it was legacy but left it at CAB1 default setting. I believe this manual applies to your engine https://www.lionelsupport.com/...31430250VisionGS.pdf

Also, in CAB1 mode, you have to hit aux1 for number buttons to work- easily explaining why you failed to get functions like crew talk working.

And on age 37 of the engine manual specific to using CAB1 style commands



So again, 2 failures here, #1 not setting it into Legacy mode when adding the ID and programming the engine, and because of that and leaving it at CAB1 mode, then not following CAB1 instructions to hit the aux1 button to then enable numeric keypad instructions required for features like activating crew talk.

These are just good basic habit things to know about using a Cab2 Legacy system in general, as this would apply any engine- not just this Visionline.

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Last edited by Vernon Barry
@rscott posted:

Thanks for responding, I have version 1.60.

The green light does not flash when the locomotive runs over it. You mentioned TMCC? I have a legacy system. I did not think that the sensor track has to be programmed. If so, how do you do it?

In theory it should come as accessory #1 so I suspect there is nothing to do unless you already have an accessory set as #1.  At minimal it should send the information to the Legacy system including that the engine is Legacy vs TMCC.

Hello Vernon Barry,

Thanks for your information. I went back and reviewed the sensor track directions, I programmed an address and then followed the directions to enable it to upload the data. When the engine passes over the track, I still do not get the green indicator light, but let's put that aside for now. Can I delete the engine from legacy and start over with a new address? I seemed to get lost when I followed the manual to address the engine which it did, then I seemed to be stuck in cab1, so is there a straightforward way to delete the engine and start over?

Here is a video on the key process. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDiZKWZJXSs

After you selected the ID of the engine, then press the "INFO" button in the top right corner of the remote.

Then you are going to use the left "SCROLL" button to move between the tabs of the information screen related to that specific ID slot in memory.

You can skip the naming and roadnumber stuff (first tab of the ID section). That's the one advantage of a sensor track that skips this step that takes a little time- trying to type out  name using the red dial to select letters is so much easier when auto updated via the sensor track.

At 2:52 in the video we scroll to the engine type screen and use the soft keys just below the screen to select the type "Steam- STM"

then you hit scroll again, for the Control type and choose Legacy since this is a Legacy (LEG) engine.

After choosing Legacy, hit the "INFO" button again to get out of the menu and the icons should then change to Legacy mode icons. In the video Dave says hit CTC red power button but I generally just exit using the info again.

Notice the now Legacy Icons.

What the takeaway should be here is, even if you have a working sensor track, you should be able to add and properly configure an engine ID memory slot for the correct type of engine or accessory it is set to control.

Going further than that- understanding the different modes- CAB, TMCC, R100, and Legacy modes, and then how that changes the icons that are shown.

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Also, let me explain something because based on the conversation so far, I'm not sure you have this TMCC and Legacy thing quite down yet.

First understanding that the engine has a program and run switch and we need to program the engine to listen for a specific ID. Typically that ID, I recommend using the first 2 or last 2 digits of the engine number. This way, you can easily pick an engine off the shelf and within 2 tries guess the correct address even if you do not know it. Example engine 4413, you could choose 44, or 13 as your engine ID. So back to programming, again, we have to have the engine in program mode via the switch, and then with the remote, we set an ID hitting the ENG button then the 2 digit number, and then at the bottom of the remote pressing the "SET" button. By doing this, we just sent a command with that ID number plus the set command, while the engine was powered and in program mode. It should respond with a whistle toot or horn after seeing the set command. Now the engine knows to listen for any command with that ID number. You set the engine to run as the last step of that process so that again, it now listens and is ready to run.

However, we are not done yet. OK, so now we just used an ID memory slot in the Legacy system. Now we need to configure what and how the legacy remote and base are going to send commands and use that ID slot. Yes, we can name it and add the engine name and engine number to help us identify and find it later. This is where once you selected the engine ID (Eng+ ID number) then we hit the info key from the previous post and again, we now see 4 tabs of information and settings specific to that engine address in the Legacy system. What I'm saying is, those settings on those tabs- type (example steam, diesel, switcher, crane, passenger, freight, etc), the control type tab sets the flavor of commands sent (CAB, TMCC, R100, Legacy) and last, the railsounds tab.

What I'm getting at is, there are 2 things.

The engine programming process sets the ID it will listen for all future commands.

Then, that same ID slot in the list of engines in the Legacy system- you then have to configure that ID options to match the type of equipment now at that ID to get the correct Icons and settings to get maximum control of that engine. By default, the Legacy engine IDs start off with CAB mode, the lowest feature mode. This is so that during the engine or accessory program sequence, we send the TMCC version of the SET command for compatibility reasons. Example if it defaulted to Legacy mode, a TMCC only engine would never hear the SET command because it was sent a Legacy command and it only reads the TMCC commands. So knowing this, this is why you have to know what the engine or equipment is capable of, and selecting the more advanced control types so that those icons are displayed, and that flavor of command is sent out. Again, if you send an engine a higher command set like Legacy and it's capable of only TMCC style of commands it never follows or acts upon the commands. However, a Legacy item is backwards compatible and does listen to lower commands like TMCC or CAB, however, obviously there are limited commands in that method.



And yes, the sensor track can update some or much of that when working, but as a fundamental, to use and own these engines, to at least be able to choose the correct type, control type, and sounds type for an engine is a skill you need to be able to do. Not everything is going to be capable of auto updating via sensor, and many things may not have the old way with the memory modules either.

Again, the senor track can be a good thing and does make life easier when working, but understanding the Legacy structure, the concept that an ID slot in the database then has associated settings and details, and that how to make those decisions on what is correct for an engine is important to then be able to access the full features of that engine.

As others have stated, the Sensor track must be installed in the LCS system and programmed per the instructions. Once that is done using the Sensor track to upload the engine data is really simple, I do it all the time, that means I am buying too many new Legacy engines.

All Legacy engines are delivered with the I.D. Set to #1. Slide the program switch from Run to Program, make sure there track power is on, enter its new number then push set. Slide the switch to Run. Using the Cab2, run the engine over the Sensor Track and all the data will be entered into the Base. Every Legacy engine I have purchased with the IR transmitter knows it is a Legacy engine when it is first started with a Legacy signal on the track.

If it is an older Legacy engine (prior to about 2012) or a TMCC engine it will not work with the Sensor track.

If you are building an LCS installation it is a good idea to keep a record of how each device is programmed in case one fails. I have had that happen. Here is page 1 of my list. It shows the Sensor track in Line 1 has TMCC ID of 81.



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Last edited by AmFlyer

Everyone's giving you all this information, but your main issue is the fact that when the engine runs over the sensor track, the green light does not flash.  That means it is not doing anything and not reading the engine.

Also, the only manual thing you have to do when using a Sensor track to load info, is set the engine ID to the number you want.  Nothing else.

I set my ID, then run over the track and it all programs in by itself.  You do NOT need to select engine type or anything.  That is what the track reads from the engine.

Key thing to look for.  When you power up your track, the sensor track light should flash for a second indicating it has power and was found.

If it does not, you first need to find out why the track is not working.  Check your PDI cable connection, they can come loose very easily.

Last edited by Sean's Train Depot

Everyone's giving you all this information, but your main issue is the fact that when the engine runs over the sensor track, the green light does not flash.  That means it is not doing anything and not reading the engine.

Also, the only manual thing you have to do when using a Sensor track to load info, is set the engine ID to the number you want.  Nothing else.

I set my ID, then run over the track and it all programs in by itself.  You do NOT need to select engine type or anything.  That is what the track reads from the engine.

Key thing to look for.  When you power up your track, the sensor track light should flash for a second indicating it has power and was found.

If it does not, you first need to find out why the track is not working.  Check your PDI cable connection, they can come loose very easily.

Ding, ding, ding!  The fact that the green led doesn't flash is a big clue.  I guess my concern was lost in all the help offered.

@MartyE posted:

The fact the green led doesn’t even acknowledge the engine going over it is suspect. At minimal when a sensor equipped engine goes over a sensor track the led should illuminate.

If the sensor track is programmed and is working, then the lack of a green indicator as the engine passes over is likely a failure of the loco's IR transmitter.  When I received a loco (w/no IR operation)  back from Lionel warranty service, the tech noted that the IR transmitter wiring plug was assembled backwards - since the transmitter is a LED, of course it didn't work.  The fix was simple, plug the IR cable in correctly.

Thanks to everyone for the help and resource material, it has helped a great deal.  I was able to get my engine addressed properly and operate it under cab2.  the only function that I cannot get to work is the crew talk.  As far as the sensor track goes, I will probably have to call Lionel.  I followed the directions to address the ID, the green light lit  and blinked when it was supposed too, I applied the directions to enable the upload per the instructions, but when my Legacy Locomotive runs over it, no green light.  Thanks to everyone again for getting me this far.   

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